Nice to see NAXJA got invited...

[freerider15]

Ok.......... some us or I should say most of us do not have the Super Duper Pooper Scooper Extra Fabulous Wonferful Buggy that can climb the Empire State Building idling in 5th gear! I am glad Mr. COOL in the Twisted Customs drove out the exit like it was not even there........ Impressed I am not. The trail would not exist if it were not for a group of dedicated people that accepted responsibility for it! Politics are a pain in the butt to deal with and some times compromises have to be made! Some may say that Indy in no longer difficult....... I call BS! For most of the offroad community it is plenty hard. For those that build these super buggy things.... stop the whining and enjoy the fact that the trail is open for you to use! Better yet build a mild vehicle and enjoy pushing it's limits!

If Dingleberry wants to attemp the trail then let him! I have seen it first hand..... funny to say the least! It is the overkill buggies that have jacked the trail up, not mr dingleberry! The buggies dug it out and moved rocks that were there in the first place! The exit was only restored to what it was like in the beginning with the rebar holding it fast. I agree that they should have covered it or done it different! This whole paving the trails thing is funny.......... Indy is not paved w/ the repair! If you want to complain about paving have a look at what used to be the V-Notch on Chinamans.......... SAD!!!!!!

I'm sorry but you and I live in two COMPLETELY different worlds of four wheeling. Super duper buggy? Maybe, i don't see it like that. Some people ENJOY building super dooper pooper scooper rigs, and them PUSHING THEM. Its easy for someone like you to say that, since thats NOT your realm of wheeling.

You saying that about Indy, to me is NO different than someone filling in the V-notch on Chinamans, or filling in any other point on that trail for that matter. There is a REASON Indy is/was rated a 10...it was meant to be fukking HARD. Sorry but your posts to me seem totally hypocritical about trail "maintenance." From your reasoning it seems that every trail in Colorado should be passable by a mildly built rig on 35's

How would you feel if Chinamans was made passable, and I mean every optional line of it,
by a rig on 31's?

Take a look at Little Sluice on the Rubicon. It used to be passable on a friggin' Ford Model-T...now its a boulder field requiring a rather well built rig to pass. I guarantee if you decided to do on Little Sluice what has been done to Indy...people would be out for blood, seriously.

I agree with Troy about breaking and stuff happening, but to me at the same time its part of the sport. Can't make it and break? Rig then needs to evolve to meet the trail, not the trail evolve to meet the rig.

 

[in4aride]

Rig then needs to evolve to meet the trail, not the trail evolve to meet the rig.




Amen to that!!!!!! Can't be said any better!!!

 

[Apostle]

would build a super dooper pooper scooper rig, if i had the money. as it stands my rig is my DD, so while you all are going over rocks, ill take the road more traveled



with mike going first so he can winch me out if i get stuck again

 

[in4aride]

Mine is a dd too......

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I agree with Troy about breaking and stuff happening, but to me at the same time its part of the sport. Can't make it and break? Rig then needs to evolve to meet the trail, not the trail evolve to meet the rig.

Just to clear things up, I'm not agreeing with the "compromise" of fixing a trail to help eliminate breakage and trail damage. I was just offering that up as the compromise that our sport and the BLM requires us all to make in order to keep the greenies happy.

My personal feeling about trails like Indy, Cactus, Carnage and the like is absolutely leave them alone as they evolve. They're all such a microscopic bits of land that I truely don't see how our sport is contributing to eco-damage on any significant scale. I've never seen any real proof that's shown any one trail that's killed fish, scared off the wildlife, killed a forrest of trees, or poluted a river...... That's my feeling about Moab as well. If you do one of those satellite images of the area of Moab, then zoom out to be able to see the entire united states..... how much land is being destroyed in the entire scope of things. The logging industry has caused more damage in one area of a rain forest larger than the damage caused in 100 square miles of Moab trails.......

But I digress........

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

I'm sorry but you and I live in two COMPLETELY different worlds of four wheeling. Super duper buggy? Maybe, i don't see it like that. Some people ENJOY building super dooper pooper scooper rigs, and them PUSHING THEM. Its easy for someone like you to say that, since thats NOT your realm of wheeling.

You saying that about Indy, to me is NO different than someone filling in the V-notch on Chinamans, or filling in any other point on that trail for that matter. There is a REASON Indy is/was rated a 10...it was meant to be fukking HARD. Sorry but your posts to me seem totally hypocritical about trail "maintenance." From your reasoning it seems that every trail in Colorado should be passable by a mildly built rig on 35's

How would you feel if Chinamans was made passable, and I mean every optional line of it,
by a rig on 31's?

Take a look at Little Sluice on the Rubicon. It used to be passable on a friggin' Ford Model-T...now its a boulder field requiring a rather well built rig to pass. I guarantee if you decided to do on Little Sluice what has been done to Indy...people would be out for blood, seriously.

I agree with Troy about breaking and stuff happening, but to me at the same time its part of the sport. Can't make it and break? Rig then needs to evolve to meet the trail, not the trail evolve to meet the rig.

You are right, we are in two different realms of wheeling! You prefer to take the challenge out of most trail systems in the world by building a vehicle that has little problem navigating them. In the process your super built rig destroys the trails for us old school wheelers by digging them out! Indy was a 10 in the beginning and before the fix it was all but impassable lest you have a billion dollar rig! I for one get tired of the overbuilt tube things destroying stuff I used to find enjoyable and challenging in a well built daily driver! I appaud you for what you are doing, it is some awesome work but your idea of trail evolution is selfish! I can now drive Indy, a 10 and actually make the exit again because that is the way it was and should be! The V-notch on Chinamans was just the opposite of the Indy exit as they moved a rock that had been there from the beginning! This is a tragedy because they took the vertical slab, moved it filled in the notch turning it into a dirt road...............

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Ok, brace yourselves....... I kinda agree with 'Raptor to a degree.....



I have to admit..... as cool as the $70K wicked tube, 700 hp, Rockwell axle'd, on 42's buggy can be..... watching them throw those rigs at the hardcore obstacles using nothing but brute force and throttle throwing debris and parts everywhere....... does indeed defeat the purpose.

However, I know Justin and he's not building his rig to tear anything up. I know he's building a rig that will handle the most challenging of technical crawls. Justin likes to think into his approach, hates tire spin.... and broken parts. But he certainly loves a challenge..... as do the majority of us in the hardcore realm. So, yeah, it's kinda unfair to say Justin's building a trail-destroying buggy. Ain't nuthin' further from the truth. I imagine he's looking to build something that'll damn-near defy gravity and make everyone's jaw drop in disbelief as they say "I can't believe that thing got up that...."

Am I right Waterboy?

To be perfectly honest...... I'd have to give serious consideration in supporting legislation that limits the horsepower/torque of off road rigs. Under the right considerations and limitations of course, but it'd kinda make sense to me........ Enforcing that would be a total nightmare though.....

 

[JJacobs]

I haven't seen the recent 'damage' to Indy up close and personal.

I can assure you, though, at the trail's inception it was passable by an XJ on 35's. Is it now? Probably not.

 

[freerider15]

You are right, we are in two different realms of wheeling!

Well...at least you're correct here

You prefer to take the challenge out of most trail systems in the world by building a vehicle that has little problem navigating them.

Sorry you assume that, and there are PLENTY of trails in this nation that will still easily deny mine once its done...I prefer to wheel and not break, as I build my rig to be able to handle the trails I choose.

In the process your super built rig destroys the trails for us old school wheelers by digging them out!

You saying that, is the equivalent to the greenies saying that ALL of us four wheelers destroy EVERYTHING. Since I've started running with a more "built" crowd...I've actually seen LESS destruction to the trails while wheeling than that of when I was around a more mildly built crowd

Indy was a 10 in the beginning and before the fix it was all but impassable lest you have a billion dollar rig!

I've seen a $5k rig drive through it (Toyota)...doesn't take a $$$$ rig to make a well built rig. It was a 10, it should stay a 10

Ok, brace yourselves....... I kinda agree with 'Raptor to a degree.....

You shuddup Troy!



I have to admit..... as cool as the $70K wicked tube, 700 hp, Rockwell axle'd, on 42's buggy can be..... watching them throw those rigs at the hardcore obstacles using nothing but brute force and throttle throwing debris and parts everywhere....... does indeed defeat the purpose.

However, I know Justin and he's not building his rig to tear anything up. I know he's building a rig that will handle the most challenging of technical crawls. Justin likes to think into his approach, hates tire spin.... and broken parts. But he certainly loves a challenge..... as do the majority of us in the hardcore realm. So, yeah, it's kinda unfair to say Justin's building a trail-destroying buggy. Ain't nuthin' further from the truth. I imagine he's looking to build something that'll damn-near defy gravity and make everyone's jaw drop in disbelief as they say "I can't believe that thing got up that...."

Am I right Waterboy?

To be perfectly honest...... I'd have to give serious consideration in supporting legislation that limits the horsepower/torque of off road rigs. Under the right considerations and limitations of course, but it'd kinda make sense to me........ Enforcing that would be a total nightmare though.....

Troy has it most spot on for how I wheel. I'm not trying to be an elitest and I know its how i'll sound, but some of the trails I've been on, walked, seen, etc. make Indy look like chinamans comparatively...which 90% of the people on these forums will never get remotely close to (look the type of trails what Dave, Goat, and those guys wheel...fun stuff!). I'm building mine to wheel stuff like that, as that is what gets MY adrenaline going, where as some others are happy with simply a dirt road, all in personal preference. I just like to keep some of the challenge in CO, challenging...

For me the stacking of Indy is no different than the stacking of Chinamans to others, just different trails on a different level of wheeling...

SEPARATE BUT EQUAL!!!

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Ok, brace yourselves....... I kinda agree with 'Raptor to a degree.....



I have to admit..... as cool as the $70K wicked tube, 700 hp, Rockwell axle'd, on 42's buggy can be..... watching them throw those rigs at the hardcore obstacles using nothing but brute force and throttle throwing debris and parts everywhere....... does indeed defeat the purpose.

However, I know Justin and he's not building his rig to tear anything up. I know he's building a rig that will handle the most challenging of technical crawls. Justin likes to think into his approach, hates tire spin.... and broken parts. But he certainly loves a challenge..... as do the majority of us in the hardcore realm. So, yeah, it's kinda unfair to say Justin's building a trail-destroying buggy. Ain't nuthin' further from the truth. I imagine he's looking to build something that'll damn-near defy gravity and make everyone's jaw drop in disbelief as they say "I can't believe that thing got up that...."

Am I right Waterboy?

To be perfectly honest...... I'd have to give serious consideration in supporting legislation that limits the horsepower/torque of off road rigs. Under the right considerations and limitations of course, but it'd kinda make sense to me........ Enforcing that would be a total nightmare though.....

I am feeling like Fred Sanford now............ :gee: Well put Troy!

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Troy has it most spot on for how I wheel. I'm not trying to be an elitest and I know its how i'll sound, but some of the trails I've been on, walked, seen, etc. make Indy look like chinamans comparatively...which 90% of the people on these forums will never get remotely close to (look the type of trails what Dave, Goat, and those guys wheel...fun stuff!). I'm building mine to wheel stuff like that, as that is what gets MY adrenaline going, where as some others are happy with simply a dirt road, all in personal preference. I just like to keep some of the challenge in CO, challenging...

For me the stacking of Indy is no different than the stacking of Chinamans to others, just different trails on a different level of wheeling...

SEPARATE BUT EQUAL!!!

I admit it Justin, I did over dramatize your build a bit..... You could say I am a bit jelous of all the tube! I have been wanting to exo my Junk for a while but my X and the divorce left me in a crappy situation... to say the least! You are doing some top notch work! I just ask that you not be one of those buggy guys that tear a good trail to bits...... atriot:

 

[xj-grin]

To be perfectly honest...... I'd have to give serious consideration in supporting legislation that limits the horsepower/torque of off road rigs. Under the right considerations and limitations of course, but it'd kinda make sense to me........ Enforcing that would be a total nightmare though.....

Put down the crack-pipe, Troy. Regulation of what free people can/cannot drive is the answer to absolutely nothing, and you know it.:cheers:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Put down the crack-pipe, Troy. Regulation of what free people can/cannot drive is the answer to absolutely nothing, and you know it.:cheers:

Yeah, I was just talking outta my keester there......... pay no attention to the blabber-mouth. :twak: