New stick lifter and piston ring cleaning method

[Ecomike]

For those of us with 4.0 engine noise, and/or high oil consumption, lifter ticks etc, we have talked here many times about the use of MMO, Marvel Mystery Oil, Gumout and transmission fluid in the engine oil and others, but I have 2 new suggestions.

History: I have a 2001 Saturn that runs great but for over 120,000 miles (now at 270,000) it has been a serious oil eater (no smoke, no Cat converter or O2 sensor issues, no oil leaks, gets 31 MPGs all day long, spark plugs are always clean) but has used about 1 quart of 20W50 oil every 500 miles for 10 years. I recently found a GM TSB that recognizes it as an issue with the Saturns back in their day, and the fix was to pull the spark plugs, put about 1-2 tablespoons on MMO in the top of each cylinder and cover the plug holes for 24 hours. Then put a paper towel partly in the plug hole, and cover the area with a towel and crank the engine a few times. That throws the MMO excess and soaked paper towel out of the combustion chamber/spark plug hole and loosens up the stuck piston rings. Then reinstall the plugs and fire the engine up.

Like magic, per GM it unsticks the piston rings and stops the excess oil consumption. It might even raise engine compression???

Talked to Cruiser54 yesterday and told him about my new idea of doing this for stuck lifters as well. We both agree it is an awesome idea. Just pull the valve cover, then soak the top of the lifters, then later rotate the crankshaft by hand at the harmonic balancer bolt to rotate the cam shaft, and repeat 1-2 times.

Using pure MMO on top of these directly should work far better and faster than dilute MMO in the engine oil by itself.

Since I have many engines in the 200-300,000 mile ranges, one with occasional ticks on cold start up (Use to be way worse before MMO), I am really stocked about doing both of these to all of them.

 

[Bent]

That's a lot like what I do before starting an engine that has sat for multiple years. MMO still relevant after all these years.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

So, do you change the oil after this or just let it ride to the next regular oil change?

 

[ehall]

Best way I know is remove the rockers, clean the pushrods with carb cleaner, and then spritz some through the pushrods into the lifters.

 

[cruiser54]

So, do you change the oil after this or just let it ride to the next regular oil change?

Let it ride. MMO will not hurt anything.

 

[SPSERG]

I'm going to try to post some pics, but I swear by a product called Auto RX. I have used it on all of my vehicles. I started the cleaning phase when I got it last winter. That being said, I don't have "before" pics but when you see the after- I think you will know what I mean. My brother, who is an engine builder swears this engine was rebuilt before I got it, but I don't believe that... I see no evidence of replacement at all. The bolts were all original, motor mounts, gaskets etc. Yes, I have used MMO in the past, and its a great product, but to do a thorough cleaning, I don't think you could go wrong with Auto RX.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums...8450925_8769194831910831563_n_zpscnx9uefw.jpg

 

[four_shot]

I didn't see it mentioned but I believe Saturn said to warm the engine up to operating temp before putting the top engine cleaner down the spark plug holes.

 

[old_man]

Nothing about this technique is anywhere near new. I remember my dad doing this back 50+ years ago on tractors that sat. It worked then, it should work now.

 

[Ecomike]

Nothing about this technique is anywhere near new. I remember my dad doing this back 50+ years ago on tractors that sat. It worked then, it should work now.

Not surprised, many old school methods get left behind over the ages. Did it also include doing this for the hydraulic lifters as well?

Wish I had know about it 12 years ago. Adding MMO to the oil works, but not near as fast as adding it straight, undiluted top side, as suggested should.

 

[Ecomike]

I didn't see it mentioned but I believe Saturn said to warm the engine up to operating temp before putting the top engine cleaner down the spark plug holes.

Sounds right, I read the TSB 4-5 weeks ago, and I probably just forgot that detail.

 

[Ecomike]

I'm going to try to post some pics, but I swear by a product called Auto RX. I have used it on all of my vehicles. I started the cleaning phase when I got it last winter. That being said, I don't have "before" pics but when you see the after- I think you will know what I mean. My brother, who is an engine builder swears this engine was rebuilt before I got it, but I don't believe that... I see no evidence of replacement at all. The bolts were all original, motor mounts, gaskets etc. Yes, I have used MMO in the past, and its a great product, but to do a thorough cleaning, I don't think you could go wrong with Auto RX.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums...8450925_8769194831910831563_n_zpscnx9uefw.jpg

I also used Risolene, blue stuff, back in the 70s and early 80's. I rarely see AUTO RX on the shelves, but I read the bottle once, sounded like good stuff. Auto Transmission fluid is an old school method as well, but may be too harsh on old rubber seals.

I am also very impressed with the silver cans of Restore from the UK. Nothing like it on the market. But it is used for a different purpose than what I started this thread for.

For the top side stuck lifter-piston ring issues , hell PB-Blaster might even help.

I had just never seen any write ups ever or bottle labels suggest using full strength on the piston or lifter tops.

On our older rigs using Dyno oil (like mine) we now need to add ZDDP additives too since they are nearly gone in the latest engine oils.

 

[old_man]

Not surprised, many old school methods get left behind over the ages. Did it also include doing this for the hydraulic lifters as well?

Wish I had know about it 12 years ago. Adding MMO to the oil works, but not near as fast as adding it straight, undiluted top side, as suggested should.

Actually, we got cheap. We went with ATF and acetone since it was a 40+mile trip to town. On old tractors that did a lot of sitting, acetone or lacquer thinner in the oil was common to soften the seals. We even ran some lacquer thinner in hydraulics. Most old tractors had solid lifters but they would get sticky in the bore.

You aren't old school until you have poured a babbit bearing.

 

[old_man]

I also used Risolene, blue stuff, back in the 70s and early 80's. I rarely see AUTO RX on the shelves, but I read the bottle once, sounded like good stuff. Auto Transmission fluid is an old school method as well, but may be too harsh on old rubber seals.

I am also very impressed with the silver cans of Restore from the UK. Nothing like it on the market. But it is used for a different purpose than what I started this thread for.

For the top side stuck lifter-piston ring issues , hell PB-Blaster might even help.

I had just never seen any write ups ever or bottle labels suggest using full strength on the piston or lifter tops.

On our older rigs using Dyno oil (like mine) we now need to add ZDDP additives too since they are nearly gone in the latest engine oils.

Instead of adding zddp, I run Rotella diesel oil.

 

[rockosocko]

Growing up on a farm near Chicago we would run a quart or so of Diesel fuel in the motor oil to keep things clean and a little thin while trying to start a diesel in -50*.

Since then, If I get a vehicle of questionable mtc history, I usually run a few gallons of diesel mixed with gas in the gas tank (or temporary tank) AND motor oil.
I've seen old gas almost instantly varnish up valve guides and rings, 'gluing' them and siezing up a motor.

Have you done an oil analysis? Usually if rings are sticking there is some kind molecular change going on with the oil turning it to coke or coolant 'slightly' leaking causing the oil to gum up too.

To the O.P. Is the bottom of the car covered in oil or is it 'wet' from engine to the back?
I had an older Honda that would use a qt per 100mi. But at idle you wouldn't see anything drip. Just driving it would drip.
Turned out to be a distributor "O" ring that the oil level in the head at idle would be below the O-ring, but during higher RPM's would pretty much pour it out past the bad O-ring. (just sayin..)
E

 

[voudoux]

I have used MMO for many things,mixed with lacquer thinner for penetrating oil also run it in the oil bath air cleaner on my Unimog ,a very good product .

 

[pjanda1]

I think Auto RX is a good product (buy online straight from them), but I don't think it would be the right thing to put on the top of pistons or lifters. It is really thick, and I don't think it would creep and soak around the circumference well. I suppose you could mix it with some diesel, but you could also just use MMO, which is cheaper. Or straight diesel.

Paul

 

[Ecomike]

I think Auto RX is a good product (buy online straight from them), but I don't think it would be the right thing to put on the top of pistons or lifters. It is really thick, and I don't think it would creep and soak around the circumference well. I suppose you could mix it with some diesel, but you could also just use MMO, which is cheaper. Or straight diesel.

Paul

Good point. Do they make Risolene?

 

[Ecomike]

OK folks, good news the early verdict/results are in.

Oil consumption so far dropped 75% in the first 400 miles.

I did use a quart of Lucus oil additive, so it may not be all MMO that did the trick. BUT!!!! The clean fresh oil looked like black used diesel oil in a diesel engine in just 400 miles.

I have never seen that before!!!!!

So the MMO added through the spark plug holes trick I started this thread on (see post #1), had a huge effect on cleaning the piston rings, like I have never seen before.

Adding an entire quart of MMO to the oil never did this on any rig I had in 40+ years!!!

Going to try it on the 289,000 miles 87 Wagoneer-XJ next.

I do wonder what it did to the compression as well. Sorry no data.

It does run as smooth as glass now.

This could be a great process for dropping NOx emissions on California rigs that have trouble meeting the low limits there for NOx, which 5-90 always said could be carbon build up in the heads.

I did the procedure twice, two nights in a row, 48 hours.

 

[cruiser54]

OK folks, good news the early verdict/results are in.

Oil consumption so far dropped 75% in the first 400 miles.

I did use a quart of Lucus oil additive, so it may not be all MMO that did the trick. BUT!!!! The clean fresh oil looked like black used diesel oil in a diesel engine in just 400 miles.

I have never seen that before!!!!!

So the MMO added through the spark plug holes trick I started this thread on (see post #1), had a huge effect on cleaning the piston rings, like I have never seen before.

Adding an entire quart of MMO to the oil never did this on any rig I had in 40+ years!!!

Going to try it on the 289,000 miles 87 Wagoneer-XJ next.

I do wonder what it did to the compression as well. Sorry no data.

It does run as smooth as glass now.

This could be a great process for dropping NOx emissions on California rigs that have trouble meeting the low limits there for NOx, which 5-90 always said could be carbon build up in the heads.

I did the procedure twice, two nights in a row, 48 hours.

Great!!!!

 

[rockclimber]

I wonder if this would help my 02 civic.

PO ran it low on oil a few times. now it burns a quart every tank.