locker, snow, and $$$$

[HAPYMUDY]

Both front tires spinning together=zero steering.

Not 100% accurate. You can steer back and forth to help with traction and keep the Jeep pointing in the right direction.

What kind of steering do you have with both rear tires spinning?

Yes, where it's pointed. Hopefully it's pointed where you want to go cause changing direction will be tough.

Your theory is interesting, simply not correct. You are an excellent candidate for a front locker. You would be very impressed!

 

[Roxtar]

Not 100% accurate. You can steer back and forth to help with traction and keep the Jeep pointing in the right direction.

What kind of steering do you have with both rear tires spinning?

The whole point of an open front is to allow one wheel to roll rather than spin. Steering is a very vague concept without this.
Both rears spinning isn't great either but it's far preferable to both fronts. Even if the rear does kick out at least you have the ability to correct if you have at least one front tire rolling.

 

[norcal420]

For the record: Actually, he didn't misquote you. You said exactly what he quoted.

By omitting the opening statement, it is a misquote. IOW, it is misleading to someone reading the reply as to my original intent.

DR

 

[BRIANHO13]

As long as you are moving steering the front locked really isn't a problem, its when you are stoped in the rocks that its a PIA..... Hydro assist coming soon.

 

[norcal420]

Yes, where it's pointed.

Ok, agreement so far.

Hopefully it's pointed where you want to go cause changing direction will be tough.

What's "tough"? Tough for you? For me? Tough for toolbags like me? Tough as in requiring hydro-assist, or will good ol' power steering do it? "Tough" as in needing Popeye forearms?

It hasn't seemed "tough" to me . . . but we're all different.

DR

 

[Fergie]

I belive tough would be taking an XJ on 33s over all the trails on BOTW this last year, and making it through.

Your analogy is not correct either. Try it with a toothpick or matchstick.

Fergie

 

[XJ_ranger]

What's "tough"? Tough for you? For me? Tough for toolbags like me? Tough as in requiring hydro-assist, or will good ol' power steering do it? "Tough" as in needing Popeye forearms?

It hasn't seemed "tough" to me . . . but we're all different.

DR

search around here for wat BrettM said about steering with ihis ARB engaged (same as a fulltime locker when under power)

search around for what anyone has said about turning with 4x4 and a front locker...

it sucks...

Jeep and every other auto maker made diferentials and still use them for a reason - you dont honestly think that jeep just would put lockers or hell even spools in both diffs if they wanted to

there are significant drawbacks

Diferentials do just that - diferentiate - making steering possible...


take a look - its in a book

Reading Rainbow...

 

[HAPYMUDY]

Doo Di Doo Di Doo ..

Same old argument. Here's the setting I'm speaking of:

Let's say up hill, very slick creek bed, not a whole lot of traction going on.

Two exact Jeeps; only difference, Front Locker in one and Rear Locker in the other. Front locker, advantage.

I'll grant you that I understand why it makes sense that the weight of the Jeep makes it so that the rear locker sounds better. But until you've ACTUALLY HAD a front locker, or seen the difference it makes in person, same trail, similarly set up Jeep, you may never know ...

Don't forget why you are spinning off the trail line when you don't have the front end locked ... it's because your rear-end has a locker and you can't steer at all and you keep sliding sideways. Spin off far enough and I'll drive by you.

 

[Fergie]

Whoa...never thought of it that way.

Guess you're right.

I gotta go tell a whole lot of people they don't know what the hell they are talking about, and that the trails they ran would have been easier with a front locker.

Fergie

 

[Roxtar]

Have you guys read the title to this thread?
We're talking snow here.
Get both front tires spinning in snow/ice and you have very little choice over where you end up.
Have at least one front tire rolling in said snow/ice and you can at least keep the front end pointed in the right direction.
This chit should be obvious if you've ever driven in snow.

 

[jeepme]

I have an ARB in the back and aussie front. Last year I ran the Rubicon with just the rear locked and this summer I did it with just the front locked and Guess what. With just the front locked I had an easier time at EVERY obsticle as the front just pulled me up everthing and steered me in the exact spot I needed to be. As far as steering only one time I had a hard time steering and as soon as I put the tranny in Nuetral turned the wheel (effertlessly) and put it back in gear I was off and rollin again. as far as snow I have had the same experience. On snowy ice covered roads I noticed no pushing or under/over stear at all with just the front locked. Like mention before just dont power it into a corner and it will work just fine.

Front locker in my axperience is definatly the way to go.

 

[jeepinandy]

No it wouldn't. Lockers only engage when torque (power) is applied to them.
No 4wd, no torque.

I still disagree..

on the non vac the axle is solid through to the carrier.... when a non selectable locker is installed, detroit, aussie or whatever there will be torque applied when you turn, one wheel will try to spin faster than the other... on the vac disco the axles are seperated by the gears at the shift fork therefore no torque can be applied to the other wheel....

so the locker will be noticed in 2wheel drive without it being "selectable" through selectable locker, ARB etc. or with a vac disco front end

 

[Roxtar]

I still disagree..

on the non vac the axle is solid through to the carrier.... when a non selectable locker is installed, detroit, aussie or whatever there will be torque applied when you turn, one wheel will try to spin faster than the other... on the vac disco the axles are seperated by the gears at the shift fork therefore no torque can be applied to the other wheel....

OK, let me rephrase. A locker only engages when it is driven. IOW when the driveshaft is being powered which, in turn, forces the carrier to turn.
When you are in 2wd the front end is idleing. Nothing is pushing the driveshaft, forcing the wheels to turn.
In this condition the locker is disengaged, period.

 

[jeepme]

I still disagree..

on the non vac the axle is solid through to the carrier.... when a non selectable locker is installed, detroit, aussie or whatever there will be torque applied when you turn, one wheel will try to spin faster than the other... on the vac disco the axles are seperated by the gears at the shift fork therefore no torque can be applied to the other wheel....

You obviously have no idea how an auto locker works. When turning, the locker disengages to compensate for the faster spinning wheel ( clicky clicky sound). If you where to lift one tire off the ground of a auto locked axle and turn it while the other tire is on the ground it will turn just like an open diff. When people mention torgue applied that torgue is coming from the pinion gear to the ring gear not from the tires to the diff side gears.

 

[BRIANHO13]

I still disagree..

on the non vac the axle is solid through to the carrier.... when a non selectable locker is installed, detroit, aussie or whatever there will be torque applied when you turn, one wheel will try to spin faster than the other... on the vac disco the axles are seperated by the gears at the shift fork therefore no torque can be applied to the other wheel....

so the locker will be noticed in 2wheel drive without it being "selectable" through selectable locker, ARB etc. or with a vac disco front end

I have a lockright in the front, I don't notice at all when in 2wd. buy a front locker try it yourself!

 

[HAPYMUDY]

Whoa...never thought of it that way.

Guess you're right.

I gotta go tell a whole lot of people they don't know what the hell they are talking about, and that the trails they ran would have been easier with a front locker.

Fergie

Whew. It took me long enough to convince you. (jk)

As far as the original question, I think it was:

1. Inexpensive lock-rite type locker (not expensive selectable, far more desireable but lots of $$)
2. Driving in snow on a daily basis.
3. Which locker is best, front or rear, I assume, for enjoying the Jeep off-road.

Lockrite in front. Best choice.

Now, if you want to rely on what OTHERS have said for your proof, ask this guy, ask this other guy, here's what the forum says, then so be it.

Simply put, inexpensive locker (non-selectable) front OR rear, which is best? Lock the front, my experience.

Hey, let's put this one to the test ... anyone out there with both front and rear selectable lockers? Easy enough to test! Run through muddy/slick/woods uphill with rear locked, front open; then run again front locked, rear open. Which gets you to the top the easiest? Now THAT would be a great test to settle it! PM me and I'll provide a good woodsy trail to test it out on. We'll even make a video!

 

[Fergie]

Whew. It took me long enough to convince you. (jk)

As far as the original question, I think it was:

1. Inexpensive lock-rite type locker (not expensive selectable, far more desireable but lots of $$)
2. Driving in snow on a daily basis.
3. Which locker is best, front or rear, I assume, for enjoying the Jeep off-road.

Lockrite in front. Best choice.

Now, if you want to rely on what OTHERS have said for your proof, ask this guy, ask this other guy, here's what the forum says, then so be it.

Simply put, inexpensive locker (non-selectable) front OR rear, which is best? Lock the front, my experience.

Hey, let's put this one to the test ... anyone out there with both front and rear selectable lockers? Easy enough to test! Run through muddy/slick/woods uphill with rear locked, front open; then run again front locked, rear open. Which gets you to the top the easiest? Now THAT would be a great test to settle it! PM me and I'll provide a good woodsy trail to test it out on. We'll even make a video!

I'll agree that an LR is a good choice for his situation.

I ran an LR front and Auburn rear for a year and a half, and took the front locker out because I didn't like the unpredictability in the snow(Yes, AZ has snow, especially at 7000'). I also wanted my wife to be able to drive it without poopin a brick due to the handling characteristics.

I'd say lock the rear.

As far as the muddy, hilly trail....no experience. I live in AZ where we do rocks and dust.

 

[Roxtar]

Whew. It took me long enough to convince you. (jk)

As far as the original question, I think it was:

1. Inexpensive lock-rite type locker (not expensive selectable, far more desireable but lots of $$)
2. Driving in snow on a daily basis.
3. Which locker is best, front or rear, I assume, for enjoying the Jeep off-road.

Lockrite in front. Best choice.

Now, if you want to rely on what OTHERS have said for your proof, ask this guy, ask this other guy, here's what the forum says, then so be it.

Simply put, inexpensive locker (non-selectable) front OR rear, which is best? Lock the front, my experience.

Hey, let's put this one to the test ... anyone out there with both front and rear selectable lockers? Easy enough to test! Run through muddy/slick/woods uphill with rear locked, front open; then run again front locked, rear open. Which gets you to the top the easiest? Now THAT would be a great test to settle it! PM me and I'll provide a good woodsy trail to test it out on. We'll even make a video!

Still not "getting it" are you.

Have you guys read the title to this thread?
We're talking snow here.
Get both front tires spinning in snow/ice and you have very little choice over where you end up.
Have at least one front tire rolling in said snow/ice and you can at least keep the front end pointed in the right direction.
This chit should be obvious if you've ever driven in snow.

Muddy trails are nothing like snow and ice. Christ, you live in NY and I have to explain this?
Here's an idea. Go out on an icy road the next chance you get and hit the gas pedal with your front locked. If the road has any hump at all you will quickly find yourself pointing at the guardrail with no way to steer. Do it with the rear locked/front open and you may be fishtailing but at least you'll still have steering.
This isn't about what give the best traction, it's about what gives the most control. Would you rather lose some control over the rear or the front?

 

[HAPYMUDY]

* Yes, I do know what it's like to drive in snow/ice in Buffalo.
* Yes, contrary to lots of people on this forum I actually take my vehicle off-road.

Now, how many of you, raise your hands, feel the need to put your Jeep in 4wd when going anything over 20 MPH on the highway?

Okay, those of you with your hands raised: Let me help you to be more safe.
* Please only use 4WD when you actually need it.
* If you are going on curvy/icy/snowy roads, fast, with a Jeep -- locked or not you're going to end up in the ditch. In this case, slow down.

(This is fun.)

 

[basalt51]

Here's an idea. Go out on an icy road the next chance you get and hit the gas pedal with your front locked. If the road has any hump at all you will quickly find yourself pointing at the guardrail with no way to steer. Do it with the rear locked/front open and you may be fishtailing but at least you'll still have steering.
This isn't about what give the best traction, it's about what gives the most control. Would you rather lose some control over the rear or the front?

Yup.

If we're talking ice, open/limited slip, or even better, traction control are way better than locked because they give CONTROL. Open you may be stuck, but you're not difting into another lane. Limited slip are inbetween where you get some power to the tire with the most traction, but agressive limited slips suffer from the same problems as lockers in icy conditions, which is too much power breaks the good tire free and you have no control. Traction control is the best because it actively controls power going to the tires. If one tire starts to slip, the power is reduced, maintaining traction. Steering and control is all about traction, not about having full power to all wheels.

As for front/rear lockers. I have both. With both, I would rather be in 2wd in ICY conditions than 4wd with a front locker.