Living Wage?

[Gil BullyKatz]

CHICAGO - Brushing aside warnings from Wal-Mart, the City Council approved an ordinance Wednesday that makes Chicago the biggest city in the nation to require big-box retailers to pay a "living wage."


"It's trying to get the largest companies in America to pay decent wages," said Alderman Toni Preckwinkle.

The ordinance passed 35-14 after three hours of impassioned debate.

The measure requires mega-retailers with over $1 billion in annual sales and stores of at least 90,000 square feet to pay workers at least $10 an hour in wages plus $3 in fringe benefits by mid-2010. The current minimum wage in Illinois is $6.50 an hour and the federal minimum is $5.15.

Mayor Richard M. Daley and others warned the living wage proposal would drive jobs and desperately needed development from some of the city's poorest neighborhoods and lead giants like Wal-Mart to abandon the city.

Wal-Mart spokesman John Bisio said earlier that if the measure passed, "We'd redirect our focus on our suburban strategy and see how we could better serve our city of Chicago residents from suburban Chicagoland."

Chicago has been at the center of the debate about the wages at big retailers ever since the city's rejection of a proposal by Wal-Mart to open a store on the South Side prompted the company to open a store just outside the city limits.

The first Wal-Mart in Chicago itself is set to open in September, and the Bentonville, Ark.-based company has more than 40 other stores within 50 miles of the city.

Wal-Mart said that its average hourly wage is almost $11 an hour in the Chicago area and that the lowest wage that will be paid at the new West Side store will be $7.25 an hour

 

[Lincoln]

:thumbup:

 

[5-90]

All well and good, but ultimately futile.

Every time the 'minimum wage' goes up, the costs of production are likewise driven upwards, and everyone who makes "scale" also demands more money, which drives up the costs of skilled labour, transportation, and myriad other things.

It's not a bad thing, per se, that Wally World is having their wages driven up - but that just means they'll end up paying less for products in order to keep their prices down, or that they'll end up raising prices in response.

The basic problem facing us isn't so much being paid a "living wage" (although it may help in the short term,) the problem is the tax burden imposed upon everyone. Figure a good third of the money we make we never reallly see - because it gets skimmed right off the top before we get to look at it!

Now, I'm not saying that taxes should not be paid, but there are programmes we should pay for and programmes we should not pay for...

We should pay for...
Vital public services (fire/police)
Public and National Defense (military)
Public "Servants" (this is a grey area. We probably should pay congresscritters and politicans - but they do make too much as it stands, and figure they effectively make another 3x their wages in "job benefits" - like the franking privilege, job-related travel, and the like. That's assuming they don't abuse their privileges...)

We should not pay for...
Welfare. Sorry, but forcing us to support a segment of the population that effectively doesn't give a damn is just plain robbery. Not "burglary" - where things are taken by stealth and opportunity - but "robbery" - where things are taken by force or duress. I've got mixed feelings about welfare, but it sure as Hell needs a reform - no-one should be able to live on welfare for the rest of their lives...
Mid-level government functionaries. The people that actually do the work should certainly get paid, and I suppose we should pay the people at the top. However, once an individual seems to rise above direct responsibility and is only concerned with increasing the size of his petty fiefdom, he should be first in line when the RIF list comes around...
Subsidies. I've got nothing against people trying to make a useful amount of money - but I'd sooner see people thinking that they have a right to make a profit unmolested, not just a right to a profit. It's like the electrical people and the gasoline people - we're their money, and they know it. Venezuela is paying something like $0.25/gallon for fuel, and the UAE just hit $1.40. I know, Europe is paying something like $6 per gallon - but that's Europe, and it's a lot easier to get around on public transit due to the fuel taxes (not all of them are applied to transportation infrastructure, but more than they are here...)

Should we/shouldn't we pay for these?
Medicare. I can see some utility here, but there are doctors that view it as a "cash cow," and that's why Medicare fraud has become such a problem. Negotiate universal rates for medical care (if you expect me to believe there's not markup in the medical field, keep dreaming. I was assessed a $48K bill for a four-day hospital say - granted, it was in Neuro ICU, but they didn't have to do anything but give me morphine every few hours and monitor vitals. Hmm...)
Social Security. Here's a problem - the system wasn't supposes to last more than five years (seventy years ago!) and we're wondering why it's "broke." The SSAN wasn't supposed to be used as an identifying number - but you see what's happened there. The Social Security Act was originally passed as a stopgap measure by FDR during the Great Depression, and was supposed to be temporary. I think it would be illustrative to see just how this "welfare state act" became permanent - at least you generally have to pay IN to SS before you can get anything OUT of it (although I wonder sometimes...)
Welfare, in general. I'll be the first to admit that, sometimes, people need a litlte help getting back on their feet (and I find it midly ironic that the same people have to help you get back up that knocked you down in the first place... but we have to fund it. Hmm...) However, welfare should be temporary, should be a fixed amount (makes you want to get off of it,) and we should get something back for the money - whether it's people going to school so they can get jobs, or actually doing public works projects that require unskilled labour.

I've got more ideas, but I don't seem to think too clearly when I'm on the subject of "governmental reform," thus, the need to do a series of monographs when I get my mind right....

5-90

 

[Ironmen77]

I think the goverment should mandate that everyone should make................
$100,000 per year that would show those evil companies.

Goverment telling private companies what wages they will pay. Is not freedom, it's facism. Love or hate Wal-Mart they are a publicly held company not a branch of the goverment. What or whom will be next? Your company?

 

[5-90]

My usual argument isn't "raise the minimum wage" - it's "lower the tax rates."

I think it will be found that the dollar is worth a lot more when such a large bite isn't taken out of it. The only people that win when MW goes up are the people who collect the taxes - why do you think they sugarcoat it so much?

5-90

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

that would show those evil companies.

Speaking of evil companies....

Exxon rakes in $10 billion in profit while we pay $3.50 a gallon.

:rattle:

 

[Ironmen77]

Speaking of evil companies....

Exxon rakes in $10 billion in profit while we pay $3.50 a gallon.

:rattle:

There ya go, lets set the price of gas at $1.50 a gallon. Then set Exxon's profits not to go over 1 billion.
Then we can go after the banks they have a higher profit margin than "Evil Oil". Then the medical profession. How about that damn food industry, milk is too high. Let's get them all.

 

[DrMoab]

The United states became a Socialist country quite a few years ago.

Some people who want everything handed to them will never understand how stupid this is.

If you don't want to make minimum wage...don't work at wal-mart. If you can't find a better job then that...I guess you don't deserve anymore then you get.

 

[woody]

good points need spaces between them

Just MHO

 

[Rev Den]

Speaking of evil companies....

Exxon rakes in $10 billion in profit while we pay $3.50 a gallon.

:rattle:

Sorry Gil.

After this week I have determined that the price of gas has NO EFFECT on how much people travel. Fawking more low life dirtballs with POS cars on long distance vacations this season then last.

I fawking hate summer....please make it stop.

Rev

 

[dizzymac]

Medicare does need to be overhauled...the abuse is unbelievable. I used to drive a lady to a "fat" doctor in Boston. She was morbidaly obese so she had to see a specialist. The fare for the round trip was $128 which Medi-C paid (you and I). I have no idea what her Dr. appt. cost but I know it wasn't cheap.
I/we would bring her week after week to Boston. One week she would lose 3 pounds and the next, gain it back. This went on for over three years that I know of.
Now admittedly she did need help and I don't have a prob. with that, but I did have a prob. with her ALWAYS wanting to stop at BK on the way home for a couple of whoppers,one for now and one for later.
I feel someone should have caught this, there was no appreciable weight loss over the years, yet our tax dollars were still paying for a program that was/is obviously not working.
There were many, many more cases like this one.

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Only reason I'm :rattle: ...

Is because:

a) I don't own any stock in oil companies

b) am not employed as a high level exec at Exxon

c) Skanky only gets 8-10mpg

d) they don't have to rub salt in the wound

 

[Ironmen77]

Exxon: Spent 88 billion dollars.

Exxon: Made 99 billion dollars.

Of that profit 5 billion went back into exploration.

8 billion was paid to shareholders.

Thats 13 billion!

It's cashflow. Re-invest to produce more.

The goverment gets $0.42 per gallon and they don't produce a drop of gas.

 

[Ramsey]

All well and good, but ultimately futile.

Every time the 'minimum wage' goes up, the costs of production are likewise driven upwards, and everyone who makes "scale" also demands more money, which drives up the costs of skilled labour, transportation, and myriad other things.

It's not a bad thing, per se, that Wally World is having their wages driven up - but that just means they'll end up paying less for products in order to keep their prices down, or that they'll end up raising prices in response.

The basic problem facing us isn't so much being paid a "living wage" (although it may help in the short term,) the problem is the tax burden imposed upon everyone. Figure a good third of the money we make we never reallly see - because it gets skimmed right off the top before we get to look at it!

Now, I'm not saying that taxes should not be paid, but there are programmes we should pay for and programmes we should not pay for...

We should pay for...
Vital public services (fire/police)
Public and National Defense (military)
Public "Servants" (this is a grey area. We probably should pay congresscritters and politicans - but they do make too much as it stands, and figure they effectively make another 3x their wages in "job benefits" - like the franking privilege, job-related travel, and the like. That's assuming they don't abuse their privileges...)

We should not pay for...
Welfare. Sorry, but forcing us to support a segment of the population that effectively doesn't give a damn is just plain robbery. Not "burglary" - where things are taken by stealth and opportunity - but "robbery" - where things are taken by force or duress. I've got mixed feelings about welfare, but it sure as Hell needs a reform - no-one should be able to live on welfare for the rest of their lives...
Mid-level government functionaries. The people that actually do the work should certainly get paid, and I suppose we should pay the people at the top. However, once an individual seems to rise above direct responsibility and is only concerned with increasing the size of his petty fiefdom, he should be first in line when the RIF list comes around...
Subsidies. I've got nothing against people trying to make a useful amount of money - but I'd sooner see people thinking that they have a right to make a profit unmolested, not just a right to a profit. It's like the electrical people and the gasoline people - we're their money, and they know it. Venezuela is paying something like $0.25/gallon for fuel, and the UAE just hit $1.40. I know, Europe is paying something like $6 per gallon - but that's Europe, and it's a lot easier to get around on public transit due to the fuel taxes (not all of them are applied to transportation infrastructure, but more than they are here...)

Should we/shouldn't we pay for these?
Medicare. I can see some utility here, but there are doctors that view it as a "cash cow," and that's why Medicare fraud has become such a problem. Negotiate universal rates for medical care (if you expect me to believe there's not markup in the medical field, keep dreaming. I was assessed a $48K bill for a four-day hospital say - granted, it was in Neuro ICU, but they didn't have to do anything but give me morphine every few hours and monitor vitals. Hmm...)
Social Security. Here's a problem - the system wasn't supposes to last more than five years (seventy years ago!) and we're wondering why it's "broke." The SSAN wasn't supposed to be used as an identifying number - but you see what's happened there. The Social Security Act was originally passed as a stopgap measure by FDR during the Great Depression, and was supposed to be temporary. I think it would be illustrative to see just how this "welfare state act" became permanent - at least you generally have to pay IN to SS before you can get anything OUT of it (although I wonder sometimes...)
Welfare, in general. I'll be the first to admit that, sometimes, people need a litlte help getting back on their feet (and I find it midly ironic that the same people have to help you get back up that knocked you down in the first place... but we have to fund it. Hmm...) However, welfare should be temporary, should be a fixed amount (makes you want to get off of it,) and we should get something back for the money - whether it's people going to school so they can get jobs, or actually doing public works projects that require unskilled labour.

I've got more ideas, but I don't seem to think too clearly when I'm on the subject of "governmental reform," thus, the need to do a series of monographs when I get my mind right....

5-90

Your posts are entirely too long.

 

[ZomBrady]

My usual argument isn't "raise the minimum wage" - it's "lower the tax rates."

I think it will be found that the dollar is worth a lot more when such a large bite isn't taken out of it. The only people that win when MW goes up are the people who collect the taxes - why do you think they sugarcoat it so much?

5-90

I think this is partially flawed. Those that are only making minimum wage don't pay taxes, and generally are refunded more money that what is taken out for taxes to begin with. So in essences our goverment subsidizes lower working wages for larger corporations, where if a higher 'living' wage was instituted, tax revenue would increase for the government. This in turn could be used to lower business taxes and stimulate economic growth.

 

[IMORTL]

Your posts are entirely too long.

for people with small brains...

I am a converted 5-90 disiple...

 

[ECKSJAY]

for people with small brains...

I am a converted 5-90 disiple...

I, on the other hand, think for myself.

 

[OT]

for people with small brains...

I am a converted 5-90 disiple...

You're a disciple of 5-90, because of people with small brains?


Too bad his eloquence and articulation doesn't spill over to his followers......

 

[bjoehandley]

I'm suprised it took almost 2 whole days for the first post.........
If I remember right, weren't the main proponents Clergy and Unions.
I also wonder if WM will now built store just out of city limits or with a sales floor of "only" 89,500 sq ft.

Your posts are entirely too long.

Should try reading them on a cell phone, especially after some bozo decides to quote the whole damn thing and responds with a whole 6 letters:rattle:

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

I also wonder if WM will now built store just out of city limits or with a sales floor of "only" 89,500 sq ft.

I thought they already did...

Don't know where tho...

Walworld is too upscale for me...

I still shop at K-Mart and the dollar store.