jeepinandy
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- SWVA
8Mud said:Bad Dog
How would you like to be walking through the woods, look up and see that?
depends on if you were the hunter or the huntee.....
Just thinking
- Thread starter riverfever
- Start date
depends on if you were the hunter or the huntee.....
XJ Dreamin'
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- Location
- Huntsville, Texas
8Mud said:Bad Dog
How would you like to be walking through the woods, look up and see that?
That shot reminds me of pig hunting 'round these parts. Feral pigs run all over East Texas. There's no season on them. On the forest, you can get a permit for nothing that gives you your own little piece of woods to trap pigs, for whatever reason you want. Just as long as nothing of the pig remains in the forest.
A month or two ago, I went with our 5yo and 10yo and his cubscout pack up to a dairy in NE Texas (or East Texas I guess: near Palistine). The owners of the dairy farm gave the boys and their younger siblings (the me2s) a hay ride and tours of the calf shed and milking barn. Behind one of the buildings was a kennel with 10 or 15 skinny, but happy fox hounds. A bunch of the kids went right over and petted the dogs through the fence. No problem. A couple of the kids came to me with a concern that the dogs looked so skinny. I told them, those are working dogs. They're not pets. Of course, the kids wanted to know what kind of work do they do? I said, well, I don't know but if I lived around here I'd use them to hunt pigs. One of the owners chimed and confirmed my guess. She said her husband and the other men will take those dogs out and run a ferral pig to ground. Then the men snare the pig and dump him on some land they own fenced in with 12' tall game fence. Then city slickers from Dallas and Houston come out and pay them to "hunt wild boar" inside that game fence. She had a big ol' grin on tellin' that story. It's a sizeable subsidy to their dairy business.
8Mud
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- Central Germany
They have been using a cross between a Manchester terrier and I'd guess a Jack Russel (or a Fox terrier). They have the color and temperament of the Manchester (or Dandy) terrier (rat hunters), but are built sturdier, along the lines of a Bull terrier but a little longer in the leg, like a fox terrier. It will probably be a new breed before long.
A friend has two, they went into a stack of hay bails after a Fox, it sounded like WWII in there. I finally managed to grab one of the dogs and started to pull, knew he felt heavy, thought he had latched onto a Fox, but when I got him out, he was holding onto another terrier and the other terrier was holding onto the Fox. For a few seconds I had all three hanging in the air.
They are starting to use Terriers here for pigs, they are most ways too quick for the pig to grab a hold of. Larger dogs like mine often end up with broken front legs from pig bites.
Most people fail to realize, the teeth of a grown pig ( a couple of hundred pounds or more) makes what a dog has in his mouth look pretty anemic. The K-9 tooth of a big sow is easily 3/4"-1" across at the gums and an inch and a half long. There bite crushes bone.
When my dog was a large pup, he tracked a wounded pig (small 30-40 lbs) into a thicket (about 1 AM and pretty dark). Me and him went in after it and came face to face with his mother and two big sisters (we were facing 700-800 lbs. of pig, combined wieght). I backed out slow, with my pistol in front of me and went looking for my dog. Learned he wasn't nearly as dumb as I thought he was, I found him back in my Jeep.
The second from the left, with the choke collar and the white blaze on his chest is mine, the others are his mother, his brother and his uncle.
A friend has two, they went into a stack of hay bails after a Fox, it sounded like WWII in there. I finally managed to grab one of the dogs and started to pull, knew he felt heavy, thought he had latched onto a Fox, but when I got him out, he was holding onto another terrier and the other terrier was holding onto the Fox. For a few seconds I had all three hanging in the air.
They are starting to use Terriers here for pigs, they are most ways too quick for the pig to grab a hold of. Larger dogs like mine often end up with broken front legs from pig bites.
Most people fail to realize, the teeth of a grown pig ( a couple of hundred pounds or more) makes what a dog has in his mouth look pretty anemic. The K-9 tooth of a big sow is easily 3/4"-1" across at the gums and an inch and a half long. There bite crushes bone.
When my dog was a large pup, he tracked a wounded pig (small 30-40 lbs) into a thicket (about 1 AM and pretty dark). Me and him went in after it and came face to face with his mother and two big sisters (we were facing 700-800 lbs. of pig, combined wieght). I backed out slow, with my pistol in front of me and went looking for my dog. Learned he wasn't nearly as dumb as I thought he was, I found him back in my Jeep.
The second from the left, with the choke collar and the white blaze on his chest is mine, the others are his mother, his brother and his uncle.
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8Mud
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- Central Germany
This is what they have running wild in the woods here. The same country that wanted to ban Pit Bulls. I really don't see the line of logic in the whole thing.
The biggest one they have shot around here recently (four years ago) was 800 Lbs. and kind of reminded me of a hairy Volkswagon beetle. Though they rarely get that big around here, they are usually harvested at 100-200 lbs.
The biggest one they have shot around here recently (four years ago) was 800 Lbs. and kind of reminded me of a hairy Volkswagon beetle. Though they rarely get that big around here, they are usually harvested at 100-200 lbs.
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8Mud
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- Central Germany
I wonder if the Staffordshire, the Pitt Bull or even the Bull Terrier were original developed as fighting dogs. I think they were bred for hunting and somebody discovered they made darned fine fighting dogs.
Or maybe as a nice dog to have around, if feral packs of dogs were a problem or Foxes or Coyotes. Kind of double duty as a hunter and ranch protection from marauding critters.
They are close to the ideal Pig Dogs though. The standard for a Pig Dog is height around 18" at the shoulder, with enough leg to run as fast as a pig, but not enough leg to catch a Deer. With terrier instincts, latch on and hold on. Usually used in a pack, as it may take more than one to wrestle down a big pig and hold it till the hunter shows up for the kill. The smaller terriers often lack the mass and jaws to wrestle down a pig, it takes more of them to do the job.
If I wanted a therapy dog I'd get a Munsterlander. Seriously, instincts are always there with a dog, an attack may have nothing to do with aggressiveness or temperament. It may be as simple as somebody trying to run away and there natural instinct to grab it and hold it will kick in.
Or maybe as a nice dog to have around, if feral packs of dogs were a problem or Foxes or Coyotes. Kind of double duty as a hunter and ranch protection from marauding critters.
They are close to the ideal Pig Dogs though. The standard for a Pig Dog is height around 18" at the shoulder, with enough leg to run as fast as a pig, but not enough leg to catch a Deer. With terrier instincts, latch on and hold on. Usually used in a pack, as it may take more than one to wrestle down a big pig and hold it till the hunter shows up for the kill. The smaller terriers often lack the mass and jaws to wrestle down a pig, it takes more of them to do the job.
If I wanted a therapy dog I'd get a Munsterlander. Seriously, instincts are always there with a dog, an attack may have nothing to do with aggressiveness or temperament. It may be as simple as somebody trying to run away and there natural instinct to grab it and hold it will kick in.
XJ Dreamin'
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- Huntsville, Texas
All of the behaviors we see reinforced in particular modern breeds were there in the original gene pool. Some may have been carried as recessives (expressed only in homogeneous offspring), but the mutation rate (particularly when considering that the mutation would have to be useful/non-fatal) is too low for much of anything new to have cropped up in the time frame of human interference. In fact, the genetic difference between dog and wolf is so small that some talk about dogs as if they were domesticated wolves. But then, small genetic differences can make all the difference in the world. While wolves and dogs are close, the pre-human ancestor of the domestic dog was not a wolf - it was a wild dog. Granted, wolf and dog have a genetic common root that is very close to the dog/human contact point in time. However, the dog is not simply a domesticated wolf. It is a dog: essentially unchanged from its wild relations.
The traits that make a good fighting (pit) dog are not necessarily the same as make a good hunting dog, or a good war/police/patrol/control dog. For example, not to make light of their effectiveness, dogs trained for police work generally view the whole affair as an extremely enjoyable game. Likewise, they are not necessarily "set loose" to create mayhem. That is to say, while mayhem might be required, depending on the application (e.g., police controlling a suspect vs. a military patrol against enemy incursion), the dog is always aware of its handler and is always under control. While the handler is taking advantage of a natural tendency common to the canine species (i.e. pursuit and physical control of a victim), on the other hand, a dog that stakes out a territory and defends it against all comers might not be the best candidate for police work. Although, that works well in the local junk yard, or in the sheep flock on their high summer pastures.
Wild dogs in Africa demonstrate the canine tendency to hang on very effectively. When the pack runs down a victim someone will latch onto the rump or tail while somebody else gets hold of the lips and nose. More and more will latch on until the animal loses its feet. Often, the dogs begin feeding before the animal is actually dead.
"Hanging on" is a perfect example of what I mean when I talk about breeders working with traits that already existed. Even some of the smallest toy lap dogs demonstrate this aspect of their ancestry. Mine, on the other hand, maybe because she is on her own in the yard, demonstrates a great deal more caution. She uses a dart in, grab/shake/toss, repeat until non-responsive technique. It works on everything from June bugs to 'possums. I didn't give her a chance to use it on the 'coon in the shed. I went after that myself with an 8' piece of 1.5" galvanized conduit. Seri loves it when I come out to join the hunt :laugh3:
When I play with her, her favorite game is grab the toy and shake and never let go. She really likes it if I keep it moving so she can pretend that the toy is alive. "Kill the toy" becomes her soul focus. If I throw it, she will go and get it and bring it back, but I don't class this with retrieving. That's something else entirely. Her only intent is to get the toy back to me so I can give it life, so she can kill it. If I give her a squeak toy, she will go off by herself and chew and shake as long as it's still alive (i.e. still squeaking). I learned early on, if I wanted to keep my sanity there would be no squeak toys for Seri.
Finally, a funny story about shaking. While I was growing up we had, among other dogs, a toy terrier/chihuahua mix named Rexy. With the appearance of a chihuahua (though slightly bigger than standard) he had all the personality of a terrier. We were of the same age, having been born in the same month (and yes, he did nip me a number of times as we grew up together). One day, when he was about 13 or 14 (he died of kidney troubles at 16) he was very insistent that he be let out the back door. I wasn't really paying attention when I pushed the screen door open, but he lit out with such purpose that I did finally look out to see what had him so excited. In the back yard, eating some leftover dog food, was a stray hound dog. He was one of a number of rabbit-dogs that cityslickers would bring out in the fall to run cottontails along the railroad right-of-way. Lost rabbit-dogs were always wandering around, sometimes in packs that occasionally could be troublesome. This one was around 50# and he had a somewhat quizzical expression, watching our little bundle of terrier/chihuahua rage bearing down on him.
As soon as I saw the hounddog I went out the door right behind Rexy. When Rexy reached his "victim" the hound dog reached down, grabbed him right across the back and lifted Rexy off the ground. He had his head cocked over to one side, ready to give Rexy a good shaking when I drop-kicked him right in the top of the sternum. He spit out Rexy as he gave a yelp, immediately turned and raced off across the yard, making for the cornfield - yes - with Rexy in hot pursuit. Lucky for Rexy, the hounddog out ran him.
The traits that make a good fighting (pit) dog are not necessarily the same as make a good hunting dog, or a good war/police/patrol/control dog. For example, not to make light of their effectiveness, dogs trained for police work generally view the whole affair as an extremely enjoyable game. Likewise, they are not necessarily "set loose" to create mayhem. That is to say, while mayhem might be required, depending on the application (e.g., police controlling a suspect vs. a military patrol against enemy incursion), the dog is always aware of its handler and is always under control. While the handler is taking advantage of a natural tendency common to the canine species (i.e. pursuit and physical control of a victim), on the other hand, a dog that stakes out a territory and defends it against all comers might not be the best candidate for police work. Although, that works well in the local junk yard, or in the sheep flock on their high summer pastures.
Wild dogs in Africa demonstrate the canine tendency to hang on very effectively. When the pack runs down a victim someone will latch onto the rump or tail while somebody else gets hold of the lips and nose. More and more will latch on until the animal loses its feet. Often, the dogs begin feeding before the animal is actually dead.
"Hanging on" is a perfect example of what I mean when I talk about breeders working with traits that already existed. Even some of the smallest toy lap dogs demonstrate this aspect of their ancestry. Mine, on the other hand, maybe because she is on her own in the yard, demonstrates a great deal more caution. She uses a dart in, grab/shake/toss, repeat until non-responsive technique. It works on everything from June bugs to 'possums. I didn't give her a chance to use it on the 'coon in the shed. I went after that myself with an 8' piece of 1.5" galvanized conduit. Seri loves it when I come out to join the hunt :laugh3:
When I play with her, her favorite game is grab the toy and shake and never let go. She really likes it if I keep it moving so she can pretend that the toy is alive. "Kill the toy" becomes her soul focus. If I throw it, she will go and get it and bring it back, but I don't class this with retrieving. That's something else entirely. Her only intent is to get the toy back to me so I can give it life, so she can kill it. If I give her a squeak toy, she will go off by herself and chew and shake as long as it's still alive (i.e. still squeaking). I learned early on, if I wanted to keep my sanity there would be no squeak toys for Seri.
Finally, a funny story about shaking. While I was growing up we had, among other dogs, a toy terrier/chihuahua mix named Rexy. With the appearance of a chihuahua (though slightly bigger than standard) he had all the personality of a terrier. We were of the same age, having been born in the same month (and yes, he did nip me a number of times as we grew up together). One day, when he was about 13 or 14 (he died of kidney troubles at 16) he was very insistent that he be let out the back door. I wasn't really paying attention when I pushed the screen door open, but he lit out with such purpose that I did finally look out to see what had him so excited. In the back yard, eating some leftover dog food, was a stray hound dog. He was one of a number of rabbit-dogs that cityslickers would bring out in the fall to run cottontails along the railroad right-of-way. Lost rabbit-dogs were always wandering around, sometimes in packs that occasionally could be troublesome. This one was around 50# and he had a somewhat quizzical expression, watching our little bundle of terrier/chihuahua rage bearing down on him.
As soon as I saw the hounddog I went out the door right behind Rexy. When Rexy reached his "victim" the hound dog reached down, grabbed him right across the back and lifted Rexy off the ground. He had his head cocked over to one side, ready to give Rexy a good shaking when I drop-kicked him right in the top of the sternum. He spit out Rexy as he gave a yelp, immediately turned and raced off across the yard, making for the cornfield - yes - with Rexy in hot pursuit. Lucky for Rexy, the hounddog out ran him.
Gil BullyKatz
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- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
8Mud said:
Nope...
They were all originally bred for bull baiting and dog fighting...
Keep in mind that in the early to mid 1800's England, this was a "Gentleman's Sport" and like today's boxing, hockey or NASCAR, it eventually became frowned upon and unacceptable by those with weaker fortitudes.
The American Pit Bull Terrier is a distant cousin from it's ancestor, the English Staffordshire Terrier and an even further relative from the English Bull Terrier. These 3 breeds were bred as fighting dogs with varying levels of success... The English Bull Terrier was painstainkingly bred to be a fierce fighter but a suitable companion... The true strength in a Bull Terrier is not it's fighting ability but it's tenacity, resolve and loyalty.
There are many stronger, better fighters than a Bull Terrier, but not as many accounts of the Bull Terrier's willingness to die in defence of his family.
The brits (James Hinks especially), created a very well balanced breed...
Americans, not willing to compromise, decided they needed a stronger, bigger, fiercer fighter...
Hence, the American Pit Bull Terrier.
Nowadays... The title of fiercest dog has long left the Pit Bull.
That title has now gone to even bigger, fiercer, more dangerous dogs than are thankfully, not as common. (Fila Brasileiro, Cane Corso, Presa Canario, South African Boer Bull, Dogo Argentino, Rhodesian Ridgebacks and many other Mastiff/Pit/terrier variants)
Breed legislation is BS...
Dog fighters, thugs, rap musicians and professional athletes will continue to drive the market for "status dogs".
Even if legislation is enacted, they'll find or create a breed that's not within the law but within their needs.
Bad dogs need to be put down and bad dog owners need harsher punishments.
It's usually the owner's fault... Not the breed.
edit: We had a Yorkie at work today that was pound for pound, more vicious than anything else I've seen lately...
Good thing I could scruff him like a cat!
riverfever
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Woodland Park, Colorado
Sounds pretty right on with what I've always read Gil. The only thing I wish more people knew is that long ago, one of the categories of dogs was a Bulldog, specifically a Bullenbeiser (there were various types within this category). Not to be confused with the modern Bulldog. This was a dog that was essentially a butchers dog. One that had the stamina and game to work all day long and move quickly around the cattle so as to not get kicked. The public assumes that the Bulldog was developed around the sport of bull baiting when in reality, the sport was developed around the unique job they had.
Now days we have 4 wheelers and horses to help control the herd. Back then it was the Bulldogs job to catch and grab hold of the nose of the animal until the men arrived. It was inevitable that butchers would develop a sport to see whos dog was most skilled. Eventually this job was phased out and man put the dog against various animals for entertainment (monkeys, lions, wolves and at times...men). As laws were created, man was forced to do this activity in secrecy.
One of my books claims that there is actually only a small portion of Terrier blood in the American Pit Bull Terrier. The only real bull and terrier cross was the one that made the...Bull Terrier. It's strange though because supposedly, the close descendants of the Bullenbeiser are the Boxer, the modern show Bulldog, American Staff. Terrier, Staff. Bull Terrier, Bull Terrier, and what the author lists as the purest descendant of all...the American Pit Bull Terrier.
Now days we have 4 wheelers and horses to help control the herd. Back then it was the Bulldogs job to catch and grab hold of the nose of the animal until the men arrived. It was inevitable that butchers would develop a sport to see whos dog was most skilled. Eventually this job was phased out and man put the dog against various animals for entertainment (monkeys, lions, wolves and at times...men). As laws were created, man was forced to do this activity in secrecy.
One of my books claims that there is actually only a small portion of Terrier blood in the American Pit Bull Terrier. The only real bull and terrier cross was the one that made the...Bull Terrier. It's strange though because supposedly, the close descendants of the Bullenbeiser are the Boxer, the modern show Bulldog, American Staff. Terrier, Staff. Bull Terrier, Bull Terrier, and what the author lists as the purest descendant of all...the American Pit Bull Terrier.
Gil BullyKatz
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- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
riverfever said:
Go here for the original old school bully
http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/oldeenglishbulldogge.html
http://www.rarebreed.com/breeds/bulldogge/oldebull.html
http://www.ioeba.net/ioebaoebhistory.htm
I have a friend that breeds these up in Canada...
Gorgeous dogs without the health problems of the purely cosmetic and genetically mutated "English Bulldog"...
They actually function like "Real" dogs!
If I wasn't addicted to Bull Terriers... I'd be calling her up!
Gil BullyKatz said:Gorgeous dogs without the health problems of the purely cosmetic and genetically mutated "English Bulldog"...
They actually function like "Real" dogs!
You mean their heads aren't so big they need to be born by C-section, and that you can't hear them breathing from 40Ft away?
Gil BullyKatz
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- Location
- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
BCParker said:
yup...
Don't need daily crud cleaning in face folds...
Don't need layrngeal tiebacks...
Don't need soft palate resections...
Don't need T-L spine decompressions...
another advantage of the "Olde's" is that you can actually take them for a walk!
8Mud
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- Location
- Central Germany
I had a Bull Terrier for a year, it was a rescue we took on trial. No real problem after he finally got used to the other dogs, which took awhile and some conditioning.
Never bit anybody that I know about, he only had three really bad habits, he farted continuously, chewed through any fence designed to keep him in the yard. He could chew his way through a chain link fence in a minute or two, wood (no matter how thick) didn't stand a chance. And he would fight the first dog he happened across. I found him one day holding onto the muzzle of a retriever, who had the bad judgment to stick his head through the bars on a gate. Stand off, the dog couldn't pull his head back in because of the Bull had lip lock on him and the Bull wasn't letting loose for nothing. I actually had to press his eyes, almost to the point of damaging him, to get him to let loose.
I found another home for him, by a butcher who had a rat/cat problem and a completely enclosed (brick walled) courtyard with a gate made of 3/8" metal bars.
I can see some of the similarities in my Jack Russel and the Bull Terrier. They display many of the same traits.
Most of the German hunter/retrievers, mostly hounds of one type or another. Usually grab the back leg, flip it on the side and then go for the throat. You can see how the breeding generally holds true. They aren't generally very aggressive with other dogs, though stuff does happen on occasion.
Never bit anybody that I know about, he only had three really bad habits, he farted continuously, chewed through any fence designed to keep him in the yard. He could chew his way through a chain link fence in a minute or two, wood (no matter how thick) didn't stand a chance. And he would fight the first dog he happened across. I found him one day holding onto the muzzle of a retriever, who had the bad judgment to stick his head through the bars on a gate. Stand off, the dog couldn't pull his head back in because of the Bull had lip lock on him and the Bull wasn't letting loose for nothing. I actually had to press his eyes, almost to the point of damaging him, to get him to let loose.
I found another home for him, by a butcher who had a rat/cat problem and a completely enclosed (brick walled) courtyard with a gate made of 3/8" metal bars.
I can see some of the similarities in my Jack Russel and the Bull Terrier. They display many of the same traits.
Most of the German hunter/retrievers, mostly hounds of one type or another. Usually grab the back leg, flip it on the side and then go for the throat. You can see how the breeding generally holds true. They aren't generally very aggressive with other dogs, though stuff does happen on occasion.
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- Location
- Harrisburg, NC
I used to have a Jet Black Greyhound, and she was the sweetest thing in the world, Spolied beyond rotten. Had two human beds to sleep in at night, both with her own blankets, roamed the house alone while we were gone and (usually) kept out of trouble. I used to take her running in the fenced in field at the elementary school behind my house on the weekends so she could stretch her legs and stay in shape. I knew grey's were fast, but holy cow she could go! At night I used to take her on a semi long walk before bed to get her through the night, and if there was somebody in the dark in the distance she'd throw her ears up and start to growl a bit untill she could see them clearly, or she realized it was somebody she knew. Very protective of my us, but wasn't a bully to strangers (atleast during the day time). Unfortuneately she got very sick, and I regret the suffering I put her through for those two weeks before I finally said to hell with it, the so called "greyhound specialist vet" (as they are a unique breed of dog), was just sucking more and more money out of us, and when we said we wanted to put her down for her own good, they said "It will be our decision in the end whether or not we put her down" (remind me, whose dog was it again?????) She did not deserve that pain at all, and I regret every minute she was suffering.
We now have a 2 and 1/2 y.o. boxer mix. Again, one of the sweetest dogs around. Very protective over her terriroty and over us, but the lovingest dog you could ever meet. My neighbor has a Doberman that is the complete opposite of the typical "doberman image", but was trained from a pup to protect her family and her land, and be nice to others, unless told so. Very smart dog. Mine and the doberman run around a play on a regular basis and get along real well. And like my grey, the boxer doesn't like people standing in the dark at night where people can't see them. Often times, she sees people coming long before I do, which is a very good thing.
In the end, I also believe how you treat your dog is the key to how that act towards others.
We now have a 2 and 1/2 y.o. boxer mix. Again, one of the sweetest dogs around. Very protective over her terriroty and over us, but the lovingest dog you could ever meet. My neighbor has a Doberman that is the complete opposite of the typical "doberman image", but was trained from a pup to protect her family and her land, and be nice to others, unless told so. Very smart dog. Mine and the doberman run around a play on a regular basis and get along real well. And like my grey, the boxer doesn't like people standing in the dark at night where people can't see them. Often times, she sees people coming long before I do, which is a very good thing.
In the end, I also believe how you treat your dog is the key to how that act towards others.
riverfever
NAXJA Forum User
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- Woodland Park, Colorado
You're makin' me teary eyed now Sport. I absolutely dread the day if/when I have to deal with something like that. Glad to hear you moved on though and found another dog to love.
Darky
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- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
Just an interesting sidenote...Dalmatians were originally bred as aggressive dogs because of their spots. Made them easy to keep track of. Anheuser-Busch used them in the early days, when they still used horse drawn carriages for more than publicity to protect their shipments. I always thought they were kind gentle dogs with no meanness in them...8Mud said:
With all dogs training is essential. I'm personally a huge fan of Rotts. My dad's owned many as junkyard/guard dogs. Most haven't been through real intensive training, its just in their blood to protect their area. During the day their fine because that's how he's trained them. Just don't jump the fence at night...A friend owned a couple who were great dogs and my mother-in-law had one who was a sweet, loving dog. Yes, they can be vicious, they can attack and kill, but its all about the people. If the owners trained them right or at the very least didn't treat them wrong, they're generally fine. If other people don't act stupid around them (stuff that is easily seen as dangerous or threatening) they're fine.
8Mud
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- Central Germany
I've always had dogs around sometime 2 or 3. The best ever was a female Shepard. That dog was intelligent, but more important had good judgment. I'd send her out with the kids and always had peace of mind. The dog would keep the kids out of the worst of kid trouble and would protect them with her life. She never bit anybody that didn't need to be bit.
Some youngster from my daughters school was running up the sidewalk and decided to give her a Hockey check and found his self standing there with his arse hanging out and the seat of his pants gone.
I spent some time in court over that one, I flat told the judge that the kid was man sized and he needed to be bit and the dog did the right thing. If you have to punish somebody punish me, the dog was just doing her job. We won the case and the insurance paid for the pants.
I finally had to put her down, because of arthritis, her hips had disintegrated.
Some youngster from my daughters school was running up the sidewalk and decided to give her a Hockey check and found his self standing there with his arse hanging out and the seat of his pants gone.
I spent some time in court over that one, I flat told the judge that the kid was man sized and he needed to be bit and the dog did the right thing. If you have to punish somebody punish me, the dog was just doing her job. We won the case and the insurance paid for the pants.
I finally had to put her down, because of arthritis, her hips had disintegrated.
kawijames
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- Location
- Austin,Texas
i've owned dobies and rotts, chows, akitas and two danes.out of all of them my favorites? the akitas and the danes. the akitas are just amazingly smart and protective while just being a beautiful dog. and the danes? well they can look dumb as a bag of hammers and they drool likle there is no tomorrow but loving and protective as it gets.
one of the tricks i have used with EVERY single dog i have ever has was when they are young wrestle with them then pin em down and bite their ear( not hard enough to draw blood ) just hard enough to get their attention. remember how dogs work in a pack. the lead dog asserts his dominace and the rest foolow in line.
keep in mind that these are NOT small dogs! my dobie weighed in at 125. my rottie was tipping the scales at 180, my akitas were both at the 130-140 mark. my chow hovered at 95 and my danes are 130 and 165 respectively.all of my dogs have been treated well( loved and cared for like family) and i have never had so much as a a nip from any of them.
i have seen what my danes are capable of first hand. i watched from the window as one kept a racoon busy as the other circled around and very neatly and quickly separated the head from the coons body with one blood curdling crunch. do i trust them with my family? hell yes i do. the larger of my danes( Dopey) will make sure if you arent me or my wife that you dont get within 10 feet of my son.
on a side note though..... noone has ever broken into my house. would you really want to stare down to danes that weigh more than you or just hit the house with the cat next door? they chose the house with the cat.
just my $0.02
one of the tricks i have used with EVERY single dog i have ever has was when they are young wrestle with them then pin em down and bite their ear( not hard enough to draw blood ) just hard enough to get their attention. remember how dogs work in a pack. the lead dog asserts his dominace and the rest foolow in line.
keep in mind that these are NOT small dogs! my dobie weighed in at 125. my rottie was tipping the scales at 180, my akitas were both at the 130-140 mark. my chow hovered at 95 and my danes are 130 and 165 respectively.all of my dogs have been treated well( loved and cared for like family) and i have never had so much as a a nip from any of them.
i have seen what my danes are capable of first hand. i watched from the window as one kept a racoon busy as the other circled around and very neatly and quickly separated the head from the coons body with one blood curdling crunch. do i trust them with my family? hell yes i do. the larger of my danes( Dopey) will make sure if you arent me or my wife that you dont get within 10 feet of my son.
on a side note though..... noone has ever broken into my house. would you really want to stare down to danes that weigh more than you or just hit the house with the cat next door? they chose the house with the cat.
just my $0.02
8Mud
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Central Germany
My daughter had a grown Rotwieler rescue she brought home, he stayed with us for two years, till my daughter moved out. He wasn't my dog, but when he started to argue about who was gonna sleep in my bed and growled at me, I was forced to wail the tar out of him. He never did bite anybody, but sure did growl a lot. He growled when he was happy, when he was mad, when he was getting scratched, when anybody new came around or sometimes just walked through the house growling for no reason at all.
We finally worked out the pecking order, the female Shepard was the chief and both him and me worked for her (in his mind). Not exactly the ideal arrangement, but it was functional. I don't think he ever accepted me as alpha anything.
The Rotweiler Beagle mix I had seemed to inherit the worst of both breeds. He was a biter, stubborn, borderline vicious and liked to wander when he got free. He was a law suit waiting to happen, but I got lucky. I kept him for almost ten years until he had a stroke. I think he always had a screw loose anyway. Only good thing about him, is he never bit a child, the only thing that saved his life.
We finally worked out the pecking order, the female Shepard was the chief and both him and me worked for her (in his mind). Not exactly the ideal arrangement, but it was functional. I don't think he ever accepted me as alpha anything.
The Rotweiler Beagle mix I had seemed to inherit the worst of both breeds. He was a biter, stubborn, borderline vicious and liked to wander when he got free. He was a law suit waiting to happen, but I got lucky. I kept him for almost ten years until he had a stroke. I think he always had a screw loose anyway. Only good thing about him, is he never bit a child, the only thing that saved his life.
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XJ Dreamin'
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Huntsville, Texas
I grew up in the Missouri River bottom land. All farmland in corn or soy beans. Your nearest neighbor is a half-mile or a mile away. Usually there's no trouble, but everybody's got dogs. The local folks know which houses they can aproach and which ones you stay in the car until the owner comes out.
Our neighbor down the road about a mile had transplanted from the city. Their house sat just 50 yards or so from the county road. They had three kids and two great danes and both mom and dad worked in St. Louis. That meant that the kids were latch-key. For a hour or so after they got off the bus they were home alone. The great danes were behind what we called hog wire: 4" square, heavy gauge roll fencing 4' high that ran from the back corner of the house, around both side yards and the front yard, to the other back corner. It was held to the house at both corners by large fencing staples. The kind you drive in with a hammer.
One day, after the bus dropped off the kids, a car pulled up. A man came to the back door and knocked. When the kids told him to go away, he started pounding and rattling the door. The danes knocked the fencing off the side of the house. There was a blood trail from the back door to the driveway and long, deep wheel gouges in the gravel as he made his getaway. I never knew who the guy at the door was, but I always figured it was somebody from the city looking for the old man. He had lots of shady dealings going on all the time.
The oldest kid was my age: about 13 at the time. The next day we went looking around the back yard. We found fence staples 50' from the house. I know those danes could jump that fence. I'd seen them do it, but that big male just didn't bother. He went straight through it. I could never figure out how the guy got from the back door into his car with a great dane hanging off of him.
I should say, we played with the danes all the time. They were really house pets. They were only in the fenced yard when nobody was home, and to keep them off the county road. At about this time, when I was around 13, the male would lean against my hip and I would punch him as hard as I could right in the large neck muscle. He loved that. As hard as I could hit him, he thought he was at a spa getting a geisha massage.
Our neighbor down the road about a mile had transplanted from the city. Their house sat just 50 yards or so from the county road. They had three kids and two great danes and both mom and dad worked in St. Louis. That meant that the kids were latch-key. For a hour or so after they got off the bus they were home alone. The great danes were behind what we called hog wire: 4" square, heavy gauge roll fencing 4' high that ran from the back corner of the house, around both side yards and the front yard, to the other back corner. It was held to the house at both corners by large fencing staples. The kind you drive in with a hammer.
One day, after the bus dropped off the kids, a car pulled up. A man came to the back door and knocked. When the kids told him to go away, he started pounding and rattling the door. The danes knocked the fencing off the side of the house. There was a blood trail from the back door to the driveway and long, deep wheel gouges in the gravel as he made his getaway. I never knew who the guy at the door was, but I always figured it was somebody from the city looking for the old man. He had lots of shady dealings going on all the time.
The oldest kid was my age: about 13 at the time. The next day we went looking around the back yard. We found fence staples 50' from the house. I know those danes could jump that fence. I'd seen them do it, but that big male just didn't bother. He went straight through it. I could never figure out how the guy got from the back door into his car with a great dane hanging off of him.
I should say, we played with the danes all the time. They were really house pets. They were only in the fenced yard when nobody was home, and to keep them off the county road. At about this time, when I was around 13, the male would lean against my hip and I would punch him as hard as I could right in the large neck muscle. He loved that. As hard as I could hit him, he thought he was at a spa getting a geisha massage.
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xjcrawlr
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- phoenix AZ
OMG....If I only knew then what I know now :doh:
About 3 years ago, my wife and I picked up a Basenji from a rescue. We THOUGHT we did our homework and knew what we were getting into.
The Basenji (meaning "little deer"), also known as the african barkless dog, is quite possibly one of the oldest known breeds of dog. They are the fathers of Egyptian Pharaoh Hounds, and many other smaller sight hounds (greyhound, wippet, ect..)
The breed had almost died out here in the states and in the seventies, owners groups began to trap wild Basenjis and import them to strengthen the breed stock. Kirby, our basenji, is a desendant of one of those wild dogs.
While we absoluteley love Kirby, trying to train him has an uphill, losing battle. If its small and white...its eaten. Paper, TP, socks, underwear, birds, and insects. All fair game for him. I've seen pictures of peoples homes when they left a Basenji alone, some examples have over $10,000 in damages.
Thank God, Kirby is not one of those those ultra destuctive dogs, but then again we NEVER leave him loose in the house alone. Now days he's calmed down a bit and I think he treats us as members of his pack. But, the one thing I can NEVER do is let him off leash.
Here's one of his sleepier moments..
About 3 years ago, my wife and I picked up a Basenji from a rescue. We THOUGHT we did our homework and knew what we were getting into.
The Basenji (meaning "little deer"), also known as the african barkless dog, is quite possibly one of the oldest known breeds of dog. They are the fathers of Egyptian Pharaoh Hounds, and many other smaller sight hounds (greyhound, wippet, ect..)
The breed had almost died out here in the states and in the seventies, owners groups began to trap wild Basenjis and import them to strengthen the breed stock. Kirby, our basenji, is a desendant of one of those wild dogs.
While we absoluteley love Kirby, trying to train him has an uphill, losing battle. If its small and white...its eaten. Paper, TP, socks, underwear, birds, and insects. All fair game for him. I've seen pictures of peoples homes when they left a Basenji alone, some examples have over $10,000 in damages.
Thank God, Kirby is not one of those those ultra destuctive dogs, but then again we NEVER leave him loose in the house alone. Now days he's calmed down a bit and I think he treats us as members of his pack. But, the one thing I can NEVER do is let him off leash.
Here's one of his sleepier moments..
