Jeep Front end alignment

[ARBOGASTER]

My wifes Grand cherokee pulls to one side constantly. ( it's bone stock she won't let me touch it ) The front drivers side tire is worn on the outside badly. I have checked the toe in measurements and they seem good. Is it possible this is a ball joint problem? What would cause this and how do I check for the problem. I don't have an alignment shop I trust or a mechanic for that mmatter because I do all my own work. But I don't have any of the fancy alignment stuff to figure this out? Any ideas?

 

[KarlVP]

4x4? The cv's might be going out.

Otherwise, jack each wheel up, and try to shake it. Grab it at 9 and 3 try to shake it, and then 12 and 6. Your ball joints or bearings may be going out.

Steering may need to be replaced. But it sounds like an alignment thing to me.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

I had the cv's replaced right after I bought it as the boots were torn that was probably only 30k miles ago. The steering seems good and tight without any slop in the wheel. I have gotten a little wobble in the wheel recently right after hitting a pot hole on the highway. Not sure if that gives any clues or not. I'll try the old jack it up and see if there is any play in the wheel trick and report back.

Thanks

 

[ARBOGASTER]

I had the cv's replaced right after I bought it as the boots were torn that was probably only 30k miles ago. The steering seems good and tight without any slop in the wheel. I have gotten a little wobble in the wheel recently right after hitting a pot hole on the highway. Not sure if that gives any clues or not. I'll try the old jack it up and see if there is any play in the wheel trick and report back.

Thanks

 

[heyhar]

You are saying CV joint, so I will assume the vehicle has always- on Quadratrac? I've seen where a Jeep new-car dealer sold a friend a '98 Limited ZJ, and one of the front tires was a size smaller (same brand and model) than the other three, and it ate the front tires, and even the dealer's mechanic didn't notice until it ate the diff (covered under warranty). Just a thought.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

That is correct they call it quadradrive I and it is a full time 4 wheel drive package. The tires are the same size, same brand and model, the passenger side just has a wear mark on the outside where the tread has been worn smooth. This thing pulls to the left which makes sense because the pass side tire looks like the outside of it has been trying to push the car left. I'm going to give it a look tonight.

 

[heyhar]

I have a Manco Wheel Alignment Gage (their spelling) that I got from JC Whitney probably 25 years ago. It's a primitive affair, with a simple sort of hook on one end and a swinging arm / meter on the other, and you hold it against the backs of the tires, zero it, and when you reverse it by holding against the fronts of the tires it will show the difference in toe. It is well suited to Jeeps because they sit a little higher and you can slide it under. I use it after a front end repair, just to be sure I'm in the ballpark. If the vehicle behaves well and the tires don't scrub, step away from the chalupa. If not go get a high priced alignment. Either way, for what I paid for it, it don't owe me a thing.

 

[JNickel101]

you could have also busted a cord in that one tire, causing the irregular wear....

 

[ARBOGASTER]

Right now I'm getting a humming noise while driving as my speed increases. The cord thing is a possibility it just seems too much of a coincidence that the tire pushing me left has wear on the outside. I did not get a chance to check tonight maybe tomorrow.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

OK finally took it to an alignment guy. He found that the rod end that connects to the pitman arm was bad and pretty loose. He gave it back to me and charged me nothing for the disgnosis. SWEET ! ! I have replaced the rod end and the Jeep's steering seems tighter but the thing still pulls to the right ? ? ? I have to do some adjusting because the steering whell isn't centered now but after I do that what do I do?

 

[xjtrailrider]

I'm not familier with GC's at all but do they have the lower control arm adjustment slots and shims like the XJ? If they do it could be the shims have fallen out on one side allowing the axle to shift that way. That would create a constant pulling and would only be detectable with a 4 wheel alignment.

 

[Matthew Currie]

To start with, if you did not align it after doing the tie rod, you can't really continue with the diagnosis. You should align it first, and then see if it still pulls. If it's rigged like an XJ, you should align first, and then get the steering wheel centered as a separate operation. Steering wheel centering is irrelevant to overall alignment, but you should do it at the end to insure that the steering gear itself is on center.

I'm assuming that your alignment guy checked things like ball joints, but if not, you should do that, by jacking up one side by the axle, shaking and levering the wheel upward. Again, I'm not sure how the ball joints on a Grand differ from an XJ, but on later XJ's, if you get up-down play, it's the lower ball joint. If you get side play, it's whichever joint shows the side play, or both. The top joint is designed to move up and down, so mere up-down play seen there is not necessarily wear there. I think the older XJ's had a different ball joint arrangement, with no up-down allowance in either joint.

You might also try rotating the tires, to make sure that it isn't a tire problem. A tire that has worn irregularly from bad alignment will often continue to wear badly and handle funny even after it's fixed, and that means that if the wear itself is bad enough to cause pull, you'll never solve the problem with that tire on the front.

The XJ alignment spec is for no toe in at all, and I expect that's true for the Grand as well. An un-powered axle will tend to toe out if there's any looseness, which is why most rear-wheel drive vehicles specify a little toe-in. But powered front wheels will tend to toe in under power, so if you're an old-time shade-tree kind of guy, used to toeing in a little, do it to the specs.

 

[tommyr]

You might also try rotating the tires, to make sure that it isn't a tire problem. A tire that has worn irregularly from bad alignment will often continue to wear badly and handle funny even after it's fixed, and that means that if the wear itself is bad enough to cause pull, you'll never solve the problem with that tire on the front.

I have found this to be VERY true on my wife's ZJ. I have to rotate the tires every 5-6 thousand miles. I do rears up/ cross fronts to the back. If I do not do this, it will pull to the right w/ alignment in spec. The last time I rotated them, the rotation did nothing for the pull. Bought new tires, drives straight as an arrow. Apparently rotating them only works for so long, then they all take some sort of 'set' and will go back to pulling.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

I checked the ball joints myself. I jacked up one side and could not get either tire to budge while holding at 12 & 6. Tried it again at 3 and 9 and still no wobble. The rest of the steering seems tight now. I think I'm goint to swap tires front to back and side to side and give it a test ride to see if she runs straight now. It does have about 1/8" toe in should I adjust that to 0 or let the alignment guys do that.

 

[Matthew Currie]

I checked the ball joints myself. I jacked up one side and could not get either tire to budge while holding at 12 & 6. Tried it again at 3 and 9 and still no wobble. The rest of the steering seems tight now. I think I'm goint to swap tires front to back and side to side and give it a test ride to see if she runs straight now. It does have about 1/8" toe in should I adjust that to 0 or let the alignment guys do that.

I'm guessing that's too much toe in, but I don't have the specs. If you're not comfortable doing it, I'd suggest you take it in, but either way, I think that much toe-in could cause problems.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

It turned out to be a bearing in the front end going out. I replaced both but the one side that was wearing out tires was noticeably rougher when you spun it in your hand. The nois has now gone away.

 

[junglejuice]

Does anybody have or know where I can get the alignment specs for the Xj? Especially for the right hand drive model????
Mine pulls left (remember that it is righthand drive) so it wants to run off the road into the trees all the time, not bad but there all the time so I would assume that it should be the opposite to the Us models....

 

[ARBOGASTER]

IIRC the only thing you can change easily on a sold axle vehicle is the toe in / toe out which is adjusted via the big threaded rod connecting your two wheels. This gets out of whack when you lift a vehicle and will need adjustment. I did mine with a tape measure and set my toe in at just a hair above 0 toe in. You want it to be 0 or toe in just a tiny bit to help the wheel center itself. You might check your tie rod ends and make sure everything is tight. Check your bearings too. I did the ole grab the wheel and shake it trick with no signs of trouble and did not find out that my bearings were shot until I actually removed them and spun them. One was nice and smooth the other kind of had a rough feel to it. Replaced them both.

 

[heyhar]

While the unit bearings are out, change the axle u-joints as well. The hardest part is getting the bearing off, and you've already done that if you're replacing it.
The caster can be changed on both XJs and ZJs. On the XJ, the rear lower control arm mount has a sliding mount within the frame end mount. Take a good look at it, and you'll see two bolts protruding from the rear of it. Just inside is where the shims are. But, unless you have the proper equipment, this is best left to the pros. The ZJ lower control arm has a cam at the back bushing.
Envision caster as this: Sometimes you pick the shopping cart at the store with the wobbly front wheel. This is a shopping cart's version of Death Wobble. The caster has too much caster. A little oversimplified, but you can see what's happening. Imagine two heavy tires and wheels, connected by a cast iron log starting to wobble- you get the picture.
In the past few years, I've twice experienced out of round tires. You can balance them all you want, but they're still not round. A good source for problems, especially if there is a marginal part or two.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

I agree it's cheap preventative maintenance. Look into the various techniques involving using a bolt and the hydraulic power steering to pop off thos unit bearings. I used an impact hammer on the back of the bolts which hold the bearing on but I do not recommend this technique unless you know what you are doing or and have spare bolts.