It has begun -Dial Up Shoot yourself-

[JamesD]

Well here is my build thread. Hope I can provide some helpful insight where needed. I am starting out with an 89 XJ that I bought from olivedrabcj7. It came with the puke gut trans and 231. It had a 3" lift on 31"s. For later reference though I am going to run the drive train that is currently in it until I break something and I know I will but I am on a budget so I will deal with it as it comes. I do not go EXTREME crawling all the time. I want to have soemthing to play with in the woods and go on some rather extensive trails with some crawling but not solely for that purpose. Basically I am starting out with a Dana 70HD rear and Dana 50 front. I know I know I know about the 50 but it will suffice to get it lifted and I will change it once I have a $K to drop on a 60. I have 4 front leafs from a 76-87 Chevy which measure 44" ete. They are designed for 12"s of lift for that truck and I know it sounds like alot but they are very similar in design to the 44044 but with 3 more inches in height. I bought 2 sets of mounting brackets from ballistic and some front bumper mounts. THANKS guys great stuff. I also have four revolvers for it and here again I know I know I know just trying my options. I picked them up cheap. My welding holds well a little messy at times but strong. I will describe each pic below and if you have any questions feel free to ask. Thanks


This is when I first got it and some of my friends decided to have some fun with tape and things while I was gone for the weekend. And no I am not mexican - long story

Finally got it halfway cleaned up and back to my shop after I put a fuel pump U joints and a harmonic balancer on it.

OK here is the deal with this. I have the lame puke gut transmission that the mount costs more than the trans is worth. I basically wanted to go play in the jeep so I rigged this up. It's a bolt with a stack of washers in between the two plates of the mount. Suprisingly works quite well after hours of thrashing on it.

If you notice here I have moved some things around so that I could place my overflow next to the radiator. I did the GDI swap and I am in the process of adding the 10" fans for awesome cooling.

The first of disassembly.

Hooray I bought a sawzaw

This is my bumper that I "made" It is 2X4 steel 65" long I think. Simple enough. Use 8 grade 8 bolts in factory holes. Slim and strong! Fits perfectly in that groove if you have ever looked behind the bumper.

 

[JamesD]

First mock of spring perches

OK I have ran U channel down the "rails" of the underbody and welded in nicely. I have not finished anything so please don't point out parts that are not fully welded because trust me I know. Also there is a pic of the spring sitting close to where it will be but needs to be mover farther back. CHECK THE WHEELBASE. Also If the springs were mounted and sat down on them it would be about 2" taller in the rear than the front with just springs touching the ground as compared to 3" lift on 31's in the front.

Here is a pic of my bumper with the mounts welded on it. These are the ends of the factory spring welded on to attach the shackle too. It is a drop of 6" to a revolver shackle if that gives you an idea of height.

Oh and I pulled the valve cover and look what I found. Ewwwwww

Ok so here it is and please guys be constructive. I am open to suggestion but I just wanted to give everyone an update on what is going on. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks

 

[Ramsey]

Your hanging the rear shackles off the bumper with just the stock mounts?

 

[JamesD]

I am bracing everything. The bumper will be tied in with the cage. I will having bracing linking both rails togethar along with barcing with the cage and random triangulation throughout. This is just the prelims of things. It is no where near completion of fab and many more hours of welding.

 

[olivedrabcj7]

Glad to see the old jeep go to a good home. I would brace that suspension like forrest gumps legs. Sounds like it is going to need all the help it can get from reading your plans for it. Looks like a good start thus far!

 

[vetteboy]

This is my bumper that I "made" It is 2X4 steel 65" long I think. Simple enough. Use 8 grade 8 bolts in factory holes. Slim and strong!

= 8 grade 8 bolts in factory nuts tack welded to sheet metal? Great design if used in compression only (like, a bumper) but I'd really really consider doing a multi-plane mounting if you're going to do something like suspend half the jeep and brace the entire rear cage structure to it. Tie it in to the factory hitch mounting, for example, as this will give you more effective bracing both in tension and bending (as the spring hangers will place it in).

And on this...

you've got absolutely nothing in place to prevent those hangers from bending when loaded. It's spring steel so it WILL tend to flex wherever possible (and the cross-section is very inefficient at resisting bending as it is, by design). This isn't a huge problem in itself, but this will quickly fatigue the welded area, because you've destroyed the spring temper by welding to it. So all the welded area has completely different material properties than the rest of the spring and with the cycling it'll see as a shackle hanger, I don't see good things coming from this. Not to mention the added leverage you're placing on the rear bumper mounts which weren't designed for that kind of loading in the first place.

If you're set on that design, I would strongly recommend using some sort of box tube and welding it in multiple planes to the bumper, and using a spring bushing set in a piece of DOM.

I'm also curious about the anatomy here...how exactly are all these pieces connected to each other (and you cleaned all the areas before welding them there, right)?

I also would have used a taller section along the frame rails to get more effective bracing, but I think the C-channel you've got there is a reasonable choice.

 

[Ramsey]

Whatever you do, dont let matt work on it.

 

[JamesD]

Well here are my thoughts on the spring on the rear bumper. I was kind of pondering on the 3/4 elliptical and I understand that the geometry is different but the principle is relatively the same. I am hoping for a little cushion from the perches dut to the fact that the spring packs are fairly stiff. I have a tow hitch that I am going to weld to the bumper and use it's mounting as well for rigidity. And yes what I have welded was cleaned and edged to take a good hold. It may not seem well in teh pictures but it is very strong. Liek I said guys this is a work in progress and thank you to everyone for your suggestions and concerns.

Also I have some DOM with bushings but I was going for a little more ride quality and due to very little weight in the back I had hoped it would hold up. Also two of the bolts that hold the bumper on actually pass thru each spring so that will add some strength so to not solely rely on the welds.

Once I get it all mocked up I will then start putting in cross braces to add strength. Thanks for the input guys. Keep it coming.

 

[rehab]

wow...ok, sounds like you got yourself a little project...

 

[Capt. Nemo]

Wow. Got some nice booty fabbin' goin' on.



Where's the advanced part?

 

[shortxjdoug]

what leaf springs are those? They don't look like xj springs and they also look like they would take the weight of a fully loaded 1 ton truck to flex them

 

[shortxjdoug]

Wow. Got some nice booty fabbin' goin' on.

they were gonna finish the FAQ forum before they started on the booty fab subforum IIRC.....

 

[JamesD]

They are actually springs for a chevrolet truck. The reason I used these is that they are a narrower ete than the XJ which allow me to move the wheelbase farther out without too much of a hassle. They are very similar to the 44044 if you are familiar with them but about three inches taller.

 

[87xjco]

I know you asked for constructive critisism and you're not very far along yet but.....

I don't see any good coming out of that rear bumper leaf spring shackle combination. Sure with a lot of bracing to get around the weakness of the rear uni-body mounting points, it could be made strong enough, but you could build stronger/lighter reinforcement around the rails and mount the springs to that. I don't think your idea of using a vertical spring to help relieve the stiff springs will work, after all, the shackle will pivot and the flex of those leaf spring ends will never come into play. And I agree with above, spring steel is compromised when welded.

It seems like your hurrying yourself along and maybe using what ever materials you find in the scrap pile that require the least amount of prep. to use. The C-channel looks plenty strong enough, but why wouldn't you have it cleaned up better and cut it to length better, before welding it in.

I suggest slow down a little, think light and strong and what combination of materials will best achieve your goals.

Yes your current welds will probably be strong enough, and the un-trimmed state of those C-channels and other metal will not effect how the vehicle operates. But hey, you're posting this up on the internet and you're gonna want to be proud to show your work off. You're not gonna want to keep defending the function over appearance argument. Why not have both function and appearance? It's worth the extra effort.

My .02

 

[CRASH]

Doesn't look like you cleaned any of the zinc plating off of the frame rails before painting. Not only will that lead to a loss of brain cells, it makes for a very contaminated weld.

Oh, the rear suspension. My best advice to you is to cut off everything you've done thus far and start over with the stock mounts. They are pre-engineered by people with advanced college degrees to take suspension loads over the long term. Your "design" will fail shortly. As 87XJCO said, you need to think light and strong, the factory design is that, plus it's not a rock anchor hanging below the frame.

I hesitate to comment on your threads, however, as you have never taken my, or any one elses solicited advice in the past.

Good luck, you've got a booty-fabulous start.

 

[JamesD]

Well I have been told by EVERYONE that the factory stuff is too weak. That is why I am not using stock mounts. Everyone told me to "in-board" so that is what I did. I don't folow with what you are talking about "painting" because I have not painted anything. I do clean things before I weld them permenantly. This is not the final product guys. Everything is in the rough and not cleaned up. I understand that it looks bad with things not trimmed and grinded. I knew I should have not posted anything until I had cleaned it up and worked out the bugs because all I would get is flames. I had hoped for help not a hinderance. I know that the bumper alone is not strong enough to hold the spring but if it is used as a recovery point to pull it out of mud and bad spots then why can it not hold up the rear of an XJ that is very light to begin with once it is stripped and the roof removed. This is why I am taking the advice from above and putting my tow hitch brackets back under it and integrating it into the bumper for added support.

 

[87xjco]

I originally answered your post without having read any of your previous posts. I since have read many of them. After that experience, I feel as Crash did, you don't seem willing to accept any suggestions we have for you, and your easily upset by anyone who questions your choices.

Many responses you have received are from people with obvious vast amounts of experience in building XJ's. Use their knowledge, they're are giving it to you with the best of intentions.

I was not trying to flame you. Just trying to help.

I don't believe the guy's here really have any personal vendetta to flame you. We are XJ enthusiasts, we want to see good quality builds, we applaud ingenuity and inexpensive usage of materials and available parts. We try and help steer people from making mistakes that may cost them big money in the future or may be unsafe. We don't pull our punches or give praise to something we feel is undeserving. We also don't flame someone just because they are new or have a radical idea. (otherwise I would have been burnt to a crisp on my project)

Isn't this what you want from a forum?

You posted this in the advanced fabrication forum, you must have wanted or should have expected some feedback. Sorry it's not what you wanted.

One thing you'll always get when you post on is honest feedback.

Whether you want it or not!!

end rant...

Good luck with the build!!

 

[JamesD]

I understand that you all are "trying" to help but*&$^&^$%UY^%$^&$# when someone tells me to cut everything up that I have done when they told me to do it I get kind of pissed. I don't have an extensive budget like some do and I am working with what I have and if they don't like it I will gladly take donations of whatver their endless budget allows. I understand that I am unorthodox in sorts but instead of basically saying I am a %())&$%$ idiot and telling me to start over after I have searched and this is what I ended up with, I only ask for ways to help me improve not a total reconstruction. I did search and I did ask alot of questions and you know what I ended up with is everyone telling me for simplicity use in boarded leafs all the way around and plate the "frame" and you know what, I am doing exactly that. CRASH you even said it yourself so I don't understand why what I am doing is so wrong. Disregard my welding capabilities because I trust it and I know it will hold. And regardless what you say I have taken your suggestions to heart or I wouldn't be doing what you said. I know the whole conv. about the Dana 50 but you know what I have 100 in it so it has to work for right now. I am not looking for praise as to what I do I am just looking for suggestion as to make it better and I don't understand why a total reconstruction will make it better when I am doing what is suggested. I have established the fact that I need to do some redesign on my rear mounts at the first time that someone posted about it. Please if you have concern then bring it up and try to help with it not be negative.

 

[rredalty]

I understand that you all are "trying" to help but*&$^&^$%UY^%$^&$# when someone tells me to cut everything up that I have done when they told me to do it I get kind of pissed. I don't have an extensive budget like some do and I am working with what I have and if they don't like it I will gladly take donations of whatver their endless budget allows. I understand that I am unorthodox in sorts but instead of basically saying I am a %())&$%$ idiot and telling me to start over after I have searched and this is what I ended up with, I only ask for ways to help me improve not a total reconstruction. I did search and I did ask alot of questions and you know what I ended up with is everyone telling me for simplicity use in boarded leafs all the way around and plate the "frame" and you know what, I am doing exactly that. CRASH you even said it yourself so I don't understand why what I am doing is so wrong. Disregard my welding capabilities because I trust it and I know it will hold. And regardless what you say I have taken your suggestions to heart or I wouldn't be doing what you said. I know the whole conv. about the Dana 50 but you know what I have 100 in it so it has to work for right now. I am not looking for praise as to what I do I am just looking for suggestion as to make it better and I don't understand why a total reconstruction will make it better when I am doing what is suggested. I have established the fact that I need to do some redesign on my rear mounts at the first time that someone posted about it. Please if you have concern then bring it up and try to help with it not be negative.

Looks great to me. I have dealt with the same shit on here and the way I built my last Jeep worked flawlessly. Don't worry about what anyone says, they are not driving it. Mine looked like some hardcore booty fab but it worked and surprised more than you could imagine. Keep doing your work and keep the pics coming.

 

[Beej]

James, I have to say, as an observer, you haven't been flamed or called out in this thread. You have just been given advice. Advice which you asked for. Feel free to disregard it as you so choose and build up any way you want. No one is telling you different. If something doesn't work, you will discover it for yourself along the way.

One thing that I think you misunderstood though, was the comment about grinding the paint off. I think the point was that if you don't completely grind off the galvanized coating on your Jeep before welding, you subject yourself to poisonous gases that are emitted when welding to a zinc coated surface, and also compromise the integrity of the welds by welding directly to the galvanized steel. It will probably work, its just adding in some potential failure where it could have been avoided with a little elbow grease.

I say keep working at it, and if you are puzzled by something someone says, just ask for clarification. I for one applaud your efforts. Its better than I could do...

:thumbup: