Insurance Fraud?

[OverlandZJ]

I'd like your opinions on this. :smsoap:

On 3/23/07 my son was leaving a local AutoZone, there was a Honda Civic parked up his arse. He didnt see it before he started to back up (typical young kid in a hurry), and he tapped the hood slightly with the small hitch on his YJ.

Instead of taking off my son went back into the store and found the owner and fessed up. Kid and his brother come out and see the dent on his hood, my son goes to gather his insurance info and asks the kid to do the same. He see's the passenger writing down his tag number. The kid stops my son and confesses he does not have insurance and offers to pay for any damages incurred to my son's Jeep. During this time the brother states he's calling the cops...his brother tells him not to and the driver and my son agree to just part ways. The kid states he'll just go to the u-pull and pick up a cheap hood.

This afternoon he gets a letter in the mail from his ins company (State Farm) asking him to call in reference to this claim. He calls and finds out it's this kid in the Honda who filed a claim against him. He's advised that the company is going to pay the claim although they have no official estimate of damage. They are also awaiting a police report. He tells them the story...they dont care.

So after this festers in my gut for better than an hour i call the ins co and talk with another claims rep, she's sympathetic but explains they are bound by law to pay this...as my son is the one who inflicted damage to the claimants property. I argue that the friggin vehicle was in violation of law by being operated on public roads and the claim should be null and void. I basically get nowhere with them.

So, i call the local PD and speak with the detective, he tells me there is nothing they can do as there is and will not be a report. Again the det is sympathetic..but his hands are tied. The kid doesnt live in our township.

So, how the hell can an ins co pay a claim without a police report? Why would they refuse to investigate a claim involving an uninsured motorist?

My son's ins co did provide me with the other drivers name,address, vehicle year and make and license plate. I'm thinking about going by tomorrow with the digital and taking some photo's. My gut tells me they are probably going to take a baseball bat to the car and inflict more damage to pocket a larger sum of money.

What else can i do? I dont want my son taken advantage of and having to pay an increase in his insurance. (he's 19 BTW)

And yes...i'm extremely over protective of my kids.

Should i call the kids local PD and make a report of him leaving the scene of an accident?

 

[Rev Den]

Your son should have called the police there and then.

I am sure you told him that.

However....either way, it was his fault, and his insurance will need to make it right.

Teach him G.O.A.L, Go Out And Look.

Rev

 

[OverlandZJ]

Yeah, i said a few other things too.

My son (Gary) is and was willing to man up and make things right. But i know in my gut this kid is running a scam and is going to create more damage than was incurred in the accident.

 

[IslanderXJ]

I always keep a disposable camera with a flash(in case it happens at night) in my console for just those kinds of occasions.
Don't forget to take a picture of the whole thing with some distinct refernce points in the background (parts store, street sign, etc.)

 

[nekocopter]

That's bogus, assuming the kid even has insurance now, how can he ding your insurance, when the kid was uninsured in the first place?

Was an accident report ever filed? If so, i'd get a copy of that..

You have 72 hours to report an accident to the DMV, or you're basically shit out of luck... (In Oregon anyhow.)

I'd take this one to court, but that's me...

If you have a lawyer or decent legal advisor, i'd get some more info on the odds and ends of these kinds of claims.

 

[OverlandZJ]

I always keep a disposable camera with a flash(in case it happens at night) in my console for just those kinds of occasions.
Don't forget to take a picture of the whole thing with some distinct refernce points in the background (parts store, street sign, etc.)

Thats damn good advice and will put one in every car we own. Thanks..

No one in this household has ever been involved in an accident. (Unless you count Trail#11) :laugh:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

If I'm reading this correctly, your son backed into the Honda on private property (parking lot). This doesn't constitute a traffic accident, it's simply property damage. The insurance company has to cover damage done to the insured's vehicle and any other damage caused by the operation of a vehicle owned by their insured.

So, when the Honda owner contacted your son's insurance company and told them it happened in a parking lot, the police report is probably not required for a claim - it would be nice to have, but not required. Many agencies don't investigate private property "accidents", just ones that occur on the public roads so even if he'd called the police, they may have declined to respond because it wasn't on the roads. Generally, they are treated as Civil claims issues - get damaged in a parking lot, you sue in civil court. Here in Colorado, law enforcement can only charge 5 traffic violations on private property per statute: Unsafe backing, reckless driving, careless driving, DUI and DWAI. Unless there's injury or alcohol involved, folks are on their own. However, all police agencies should allow you to make an incident (non criminal) report for these kinds of situations.

Because your son exchanged insurance info with the Honda owners, he's kinda at the mercy of the insurance company. I'd definitely try to take pics ASAP of the Honda just for the reasons you mentioned - keep them from getting you guys to pay for damages not caused by you.

Good luck!

 

[OverlandZJ]

If I'm reading this correctly, your son backed into the Honda on private property (parking lot). This doesn't constitute a traffic accident, it's simply property damage. The insurance company has to cover damage done to the insured's vehicle and any other damage caused by the operation of a vehicle owned by their insured.

So, when the Honda owner contacted your son's insurance company and told them it happened in a parking lot, the police report is probably not required for a claim - it would be nice to have, but not required. Many agencies don't investigate private property "accidents", just ones that occur on the public roads so even if he'd called the police, they may have declined to respond because it wasn't on the roads. Generally, they are treated as Civil claims issues - get damaged in a parking lot, you sue in civil court. Here in Colorado, law enforcement can only charge 5 traffic violations on private property per statute: Unsafe backing, reckless driving, careless driving, DUI and DWAI. Unless there's injury or alcohol involved, folks are on their own. However, all police agencies should allow you to make an incident (non criminal) report for these kinds of situations.

Because your son exchanged insurance info with the Honda owners, he's kinda at the mercy of the insurance company. I'd definitely try to take pics ASAP of the Honda just for the reasons you mentioned - keep them from getting you guys to pay for damages not caused by you.

Good luck!

That makes an awful lot of sense... i appreciate that.

I'm going to take some pics tomorrow if i can find the car, show them to my son and see what he has to say. Then await the damage report he submits to the insurance company.

 

[Jess]

If I'm reading this correctly, your son backed into the Honda on private property (parking lot). This doesn't constitute a traffic accident, it's simply property damage. The insurance company has to cover damage done to the insured's vehicle and any other damage caused by the operation of a vehicle owned by their insured.

So, when the Honda owner contacted your son's insurance company and told them it happened in a parking lot, the police report is probably not required for a claim - it would be nice to have, but not required. Many agencies don't investigate private property "accidents", just ones that occur on the public roads so even if he'd called the police, they may have declined to respond because it wasn't on the roads. Generally, they are treated as Civil claims issues - get damaged in a parking lot, you sue in civil court. Here in Colorado, law enforcement can only charge 5 traffic violations on private property per statute: Unsafe backing, reckless driving, careless driving, DUI and DWAI. Unless there's injury or alcohol involved, folks are on their own. However, all police agencies should allow you to make an incident (non criminal) report for these kinds of situations.

Because your son exchanged insurance info with the Honda owners, he's kinda at the mercy of the insurance company. I'd definitely try to take pics ASAP of the Honda just for the reasons you mentioned - keep them from getting you guys to pay for damages not caused by you.

Good luck!

That is correct. If it happens on private property and no injuries occured the police will not come. You should talk to the manager of the store and see if any of their security cameras have a vantage point which could have seen the accident, or any close stores or gas stations. With that said, it makes no difference what the other driver tries to claim in damages as related to you/your son's insurance rates. Any claim will hurt the rates, but it should not matter if the claim is $5 or $50,000....unless they try to sue you independently.

Your claim that if the other driver was uninsured and your son hit him, he should not be paid is a good idea, however I've heard all my life "two wrongs don't make a right". I believe that applies here. This is why the responsible ones of us do have insurance---all the asshats on the road that don't.

I did the same thing many years ago, also in an AutoZone parking lot. I had a Toyota pickup with my 4-wheeler in the back and backed up the way most 18 year old do, and hit a car. It was about an 85 Toyota Supra and I crushed the whole rear hatch and shattered the glass. It was completely my fault and I found the owner and gave them my insurance info, because it was the right thing to do and marked that one as a life lesson. I still look twice before I back up now!

 

[yardape]

While documenting the other vehicle is a good idea, lets hope that the owners are really not that underhanded that they would create more damage. It would be pretty stupid and obvious if they did. It sounds like after your son agreed to a "deal" with the other driver who was also a kid,....right?...... someone else like a parent got involved which is why there is now an insurance claim.

Here in Maryland we have no-fault insurance. The police will not even come out on public roads unless emergency assistance is required. Been there done that.

It was completely my fault and I found the owner and gave them my insurance info, because it was the right thing to do and marked that one as a life lesson. I still look twice before I back up now!

Now is the time to learn these lessons while your boy is still young enough to learn from them. While these experiences are hard on parents, its all good in the end.

 

[OverlandZJ]

While documenting the other vehicle is a good idea, lets hope that the owners are really not that underhanded that they would create more damage. It would be pretty stupid and obvious if they did. It sounds like after your son agreed to a "deal" with the other driver who was also a kid,....right?...... someone else like a parent got involved which is why there is now an insurance claim.

Here in Maryland we have no-fault insurance. The police will not even come out on public roads unless emergency assistance is required. Been there done that.



Now is the time to learn these lessons while your boy is still young enough to learn from them. While these experiences are hard on parents, its all good in the end.

Yes, it was another kid in his mid 20's or so.

What po's me is the fact that our local PD's could care less that this kid was operating a vehicle illegally. It should be a priority to get that vehicle off the road.

 

[ECKSJAY]

What po's me is the fact that our local PD's could care less that this kid was operating a vehicle illegally. It should be a priority to get that vehicle off the road.

Fact of the matter is that it happened and there's no way to go back. Police officers can't enforce a law that's not been committed within a certain amount of time (statute of limitations, depending on the severity of the crime). Troy gave a perfect account of how/why. In WA State, you can go into any LE office and pick up an accident report. Police generally won't respond to a non-injury accident or one with less than an estimated dollar amount in damages...but that doesn't mean an accident report can't be filed. Basically something happens like this, you get all the info from the other vehicle, including the driver's license number or ANYTHING you can get ahold of. If they drive off, hopefully you have a plate number to go by. Depending on the situation you might even be able to phone the police and report that the other driver left, providing they just drove off with no contact.

What it all boils down to is that if it's not reported at the time it happened, you're not going to get cooperation in the future (as you're finding out now). A call to even the insurance company IMMEDIATELY might have saved your ass right now. They know the policies and statutes, that's why you pay them. If you or your son had called them right away, they probably could have told you to file an incident report...but now that it's been too long the police are saying, 'Sorry...'

The 'going to take a picture of the other vehicle' seems like a good idea, but it could create a MUCH larger headache than it is, especially if you have to trod up someone's driveway to do it. If they're pulling some underhanded scheme now, just wait until they've set you up to come snooping around their property. Always assume the worst. I sure as hell wouldn't do it if I were you. :eyes: