- Location
- bourbonnais IL
Important
- Thread starter bshaw
- Start date
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
The lack of ratcheting could be due to the difference in drag torque applied to the pinion yoke by not having the driveshaft vs having the driveshaft. Having the driveshaft and transfer case involved may drag on the pinion enough to very slightly engage the locker just enough that the teeth ratchet against each other.
I would start by checking how freely the front output on the transfer case spins with it in 2wd.
I would start by checking how freely the front output on the transfer case spins with it in 2wd.
99SJ_Ex
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- La Crosse, WI
:sure: Didn't we tell you to do this before you tore the front diff apart? Did it go away then?
U-joints or the centering ball/spring/yoke. If you can rotate the double-joint end by hand, easily, the centering ball needs to be replaced.
^^ Me thinks so too...
I have a bad pinion angle on the 8.8 right now, I'm sure the rear output bearing is bad, you can feel it in the t-case handle as a vibration with the D.S. disconnected...
99SJ_Ex
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- La Crosse, WI
Very valid point, same reason they used to say about flat-towing the older XJs right? Something to do with drag in the t-case even in 2wd?
99SJ 'Fuzzy' Ex
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
Not exactly.
The older XJ's would lock the front and rear together in neutral while disconnecting from the trans. This would cause the same kind of binding you would get if you were running around in 4wd on pavement.
On the older jeeps if you put the tcase in neutral while the jeep was turned off, there was no vacuum going to the front axle and it wouldn't engage the axle disconnect. Then you could tow no problems. However, if you put the jeep in neutral while it was running it would engage the front axle, the tcase would lock the front and rear together and after a hundred miles or so the case would explode.
- Location
- Michigan
what years are you referring to? I got the vacuum years, but what cases locked front/rear when in N?
231 cases have the lube pump that runs off the output shaft of the case, so when you're flat towing and the wheels are moving the case is lubricated.
*89Laredo*
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sheffield, IA
Have to go on a service call with an angry stomach... yay.
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
Jeep always advertised you could flat tow an XJ. I'm not 100% on this but I think the year they went away from the axle disconnects they also fixed the issue with the tcases and I honestly can't remember what year that was. I'm thinking 92-93ish
- Location
- Columbus, In
Here's what had been replaced. I put new 760's about 9 months ago. Regeared the front to 4.10 in January. Replaced the unit bearings last week. Locker, pins and springs all look good. I'm guessing it has to do with the case because nothing has seemed to go right.
*89Laredo*
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sheffield, IA
89
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
The 231 doesn't have a front output driven oil pump - I was just inside one a few weeks ago. Has a rear output driven pump.
IIRC the shift pattern was changed at the same time as the vac disconnect went away. The vac disconnect "made up" for the fact that 231 in neutral was actually 4x4. I'm not exactly sure if the change was at the same time, but all non vac disconnect year 231s should be true neutral.
Older 231s meant for use with the vac disconnect:
range fork handles high, neutral, low
mode fork either links front output to rear or doesn't
The older 231 in neutral would unlink the input shaft from the rear output shaft, but the shift cam's pattern for the mode fork only disabled the front output in 2hi, leaving the mode fork locked (in 4x4) all the way from 4hi to 4lo, which crosses N. The newer one has a cam profile change that shifts the mode fork out of engagement in neutral.
Actually, here's a pic:
Old style on the left, new style on the right. The squiggly cut in the middle shifts the range fork (you can see the two positions for 2hi and 4hi all the way to the clockwise end, then the slope across neutral to the detent for 4lo) and the top profile shifts the mode fork. The older 231 on the left has a profile (reading counterclockwise) RWD (2hi)/4WD (4hi)/4WD (N)/4WD (4lo) while the newer 231 on the right has the profile (reading counterclockwise) RWD (2hi)/4WD (4hi)/RWD (N)/4WD (4lo). Combine that with the way the range fork shifts the shift collar into the neutral position as well in N and you have all inputs and outputs disconnected from each other in N on late 231s vs the input disconnected but the outputs both linked together in N on early 231s.
IIRC the shift pattern was changed at the same time as the vac disconnect went away. The vac disconnect "made up" for the fact that 231 in neutral was actually 4x4. I'm not exactly sure if the change was at the same time, but all non vac disconnect year 231s should be true neutral.
Older 231s meant for use with the vac disconnect:
range fork handles high, neutral, low
mode fork either links front output to rear or doesn't
The older 231 in neutral would unlink the input shaft from the rear output shaft, but the shift cam's pattern for the mode fork only disabled the front output in 2hi, leaving the mode fork locked (in 4x4) all the way from 4hi to 4lo, which crosses N. The newer one has a cam profile change that shifts the mode fork out of engagement in neutral.
Actually, here's a pic:
Old style on the left, new style on the right. The squiggly cut in the middle shifts the range fork (you can see the two positions for 2hi and 4hi all the way to the clockwise end, then the slope across neutral to the detent for 4lo) and the top profile shifts the mode fork. The older 231 on the left has a profile (reading counterclockwise) RWD (2hi)/4WD (4hi)/4WD (N)/4WD (4lo) while the newer 231 on the right has the profile (reading counterclockwise) RWD (2hi)/4WD (4hi)/RWD (N)/4WD (4lo). Combine that with the way the range fork shifts the shift collar into the neutral position as well in N and you have all inputs and outputs disconnected from each other in N on late 231s vs the input disconnected but the outputs both linked together in N on early 231s.
Smash Hole
GFY
- Location
- Smash HQ
Bring that damn thing over. We'll figure it out in 10 minutes
Smash Hole
GFY
- Location
- Smash HQ
The 231 doesn't have a front output driven oil pump - I was just inside one a few weeks ago. Has a rear output driven pump.
IIRC the shift pattern was changed at the same time as the vac disconnect went away. The vac disconnect "made up" for the fact that 231 in neutral was actually 4x4. I'm not exactly sure if the change was at the same time, but all non vac disconnect year 231s should be true neutral.
Older 231s meant for use with the vac disconnect:
range fork handles high, neutral, low
mode fork either links front output to rear or doesn't
The older 231 in neutral would unlink the input shaft from the rear output shaft, but the shift cam's pattern for the mode fork only disabled the front output in 2hi, leaving the mode fork locked (in 4x4) all the way from 4hi to 4lo, which crosses N. The newer one has a cam profile change that shifts the mode fork out of engagement in neutral.
Actually, here's a pic:
Old style on the left, new style on the right. The squiggly cut in the middle shifts the range fork (you can see the two positions for 2hi and 4hi all the way to the clockwise end, then the slope across neutral to the detent for 4lo) and the top profile shifts the mode fork. The older 231 on the left has a profile (reading counterclockwise) RWD (2hi)/4WD (4hi)/4WD (N)/4WD (4lo) while the newer 231 on the right has the profile (reading counterclockwise) RWD (2hi)/4WD (4hi)/RWD (N)/4WD (4lo). Combine that with the way the range fork shifts the shift collar into the neutral position as well in N and you have all inputs and outputs disconnected from each other in N on late 231s vs the input disconnected but the outputs both linked together in N on early 231s.
That's the most tech I've seen on
in years.
- Location
- Michigan
I didn't say it, but that's what I meant Ken
*89Laredo*
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sheffield, IA
In other words, if mine ever gets flat towed it might **** up the tcase. Nice.
Rev Den
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Plainfield, IL
This would be the perfect parts rig for anyone build a mild wheeler.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1100147
Rev
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1100147
Rev
*89Laredo*
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sheffield, IA
Why don't we have a "prices required in the marketplace" rule like gl4x4?
- Location
- NE Indiana
I was just thinking that too...
pirate requires it as well...
mac 'I'll take it to the bod' gyvr
- Location
- Michigan
POLAR_JEEP_04
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Ohio
Location required would be nice too. People put stupid crap on their profile for their location so I never know how close something it when they post it.
