Illegal Aliens are Obvious Identity Thieves

seanR said:
How many stop to think of the true cost of illegals?
The big rallying cry is they do the work none of us want to do.
Really?
I mowed yards while in High School, I swept floors, and I did manual labor.
All of the things they do now, we did as kids.
People talk about the minimal wages they work for, how much money that saves the employer.
“Their contribution to this economy is vital.” Bull Sh!t
That is the “ Wal-Mart” mentality!, “look how much money I save by shopping there!
Let’s look at how much they cost us.
Not only are they draining our welfare system, they are overloading our schools, Hospitals, Highways, and our Cities
They are driving wages down, jobs that once paid $15.00 per hour are now $8.00 to $10.00 per hour ‘cause they can get people to do them for those wages.
The fact that our pansy assed legal system won’t enforce our current immigration laws is putting a huge burden on the tax payers.
Forcing employers to hire U.S. citizens, and paying decent wages would eliminate this ‘underclass’ that puts such a burden on the system.
This should ultimately lower our taxes because we would not have to support this underclass.
More of our tax money could be spent on us, the U.S. Citizens.
But continuing to let these people come here, break the laws and leach off of us we are only hurting our selves!
Try to check in to the Emergency room in an urban area, how long will you wait?
Try to send your teen age kid out for a summer job as a farm hand or mowing yards.
What happens when they move into your financially strapped school district and the State MANDATES the school teaches them in there native language, forcing the school to hire a bunch of translators, leaving less money for honors programs or to help our own kids when they fall behind! I had to put my son in a private school so he could have advanced classes; I paid for it my self. These people move to town rent a house and the school HAS to hire two new teachers so they can be taught in Spanish, B.S.!

Put up a fence.
Start arresting CEOs who KNOWNINGLY hire illegals.
Let’s enforce the laws already in place and stop rewarding people for their bad behavior!

For the record, I am a fourth generation immigrant, my Grandpa’s parents came here from Ireland and they came legally and took no free shit from the government.
They made a better life for themselves, themselves!
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I'm a legal immigrant and the crap I had to go through 30 years ago was freakin amazing, yup prints on file with INS. If ya wanna stay here go through the LEGAL process
 
seanR said:
How many stop to think of the true cost of illegals?
The big rallying cry is they do the work none of us want to do.
Really?
I mowed yards while in High School, I swept floors, and I did manual labor.
All of the things they do now, we did as kids.
People talk about the minimal wages they work for, how much money that saves the employer.
“Their contribution to this economy is vital.” Bull Sh!t
That is the “ Wal-Mart” mentality!, “look how much money I save by shopping there!
Let’s look at how much they cost us.
Not only are they draining our welfare system, they are overloading our schools, Hospitals, Highways, and our Cities
They are driving wages down, jobs that once paid $15.00 per hour are now $8.00 to $10.00 per hour ‘cause they can get people to do them for those wages.
The fact that our pansy assed legal system won’t enforce our current immigration laws is putting a huge burden on the tax payers.
Forcing employers to hire U.S. citizens, and paying decent wages would eliminate this ‘underclass’ that puts such a burden on the system.
This should ultimately lower our taxes because we would not have to support this underclass.
More of our tax money could be spent on us, the U.S. Citizens.
But continuing to let these people come here, break the laws and leach off of us we are only hurting our selves!
Try to check in to the Emergency room in an urban area, how long will you wait?
Try to send your teen age kid out for a summer job as a farm hand or mowing yards.
What happens when they move into your financially strapped school district and the State MANDATES the school teaches them in there native language, forcing the school to hire a bunch of translators, leaving less money for honors programs or to help our own kids when they fall behind! I had to put my son in a private school so he could have advanced classes; I paid for it my self. These people move to town rent a house and the school HAS to hire two new teachers so they can be taught in Spanish, B.S.!

Put up a fence.
Start arresting CEOs who KNOWNINGLY hire illegals.
Let’s enforce the laws already in place and stop rewarding people for their bad behavior!

For the record, I am a fourth generation immigrant, my Grandpa’s parents came here from Ireland and they came legally and took no free shit from the government.
They made a better life for themselves, themselves!
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werd
 
ECKSJAY said:
Some of us agree to a point. ;) I don't mind open and free immigration, but I do mind giving out freebies to the people who aren't citizens...:)
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My point, ILLEGAL IMMAGRATION!
They are the ones who came her and enroll their kids in school, and plug up the ERs.
The LEGAL ones we have no problem with!
It is the ones who break the law by even being here!
If they want to live in the land of the free and the home of the brave, then they can wait in line.
 
seanR said:
My point, ILLEGAL IMMAGRATION!
They are the ones who came her and enroll their kids in school, and plug up the ERs.
The LEGAL ones we have no problem with!
It is the ones who break the law by even being here!
If they want to live in the land of the free and the home of the brave, then they can wait in line.
Click to expand...

Again: I'm not giving a differentiation to ILLEGAL vs. LEGAL...I'm advocating OPEN immigration, just not giving those who haven't gone through the process the benefits of being a citizen. :) Can't break the law by being here if there's no law against being here in the first place. :) Abolishing social benefits like welfare would cut this down real quick (and save a LOT of money), but denial of service is a good start. Kind of like having this website: There are beneficial areas for NAXJA members, but you can use most areas by not being one. Under current immigration law, nobody would be allowed to use our website at all. You gotta pay to play, and you gotta play to win.
 
RichP said:
Wonder how many illegals could have been rounded up at the protests.... oh well, hindsights 20/20..
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Yah, that was what I was thinking. They said where they would be and at what time. How fudging hard would it have been for the State and Federal governments make a show at a couple of the protests, surround the group, and not let anyone leave untill they proved they belonged here. Then deport every illegal they could find.

They don't let US citizens protest in Mexico, why should we allow it here?

This is yet another attempt by the left to pussy us into running the country their way :bs:
 
ECKSJAY said:
Abolishing social benefits like welfare would cut this down real quick (and save a LOT of money), but denial of service is a good start.
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Won't ever happen. The US can not sit on a podium and spout international human rights, then deny assistance to other Humans who have managed to sneak here in the dead of night. Won't fly, the pussy Left won't let it.
 
ECKSJAY said:
Again: I'm not giving a differentiation to ILLEGAL vs. LEGAL...I'm advocating OPEN immigration, just not giving those who haven't gone through the process the benefits of being a citizen. :) Can't break the law by being here if there's no law against being here in the first place. :) Abolishing social benefits like welfare would cut this down real quick (and save a LOT of money), but denial of service is a good start. Kind of like having this website: There are beneficial areas for NAXJA members, but you can use most areas by not being one. Under current immigration law, nobody would be allowed to use our website at all. You gotta pay to play, and you gotta play to win.
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You have to remember that ILLEGALS are NOT entitled to social services under the current laws!
They are breaking the law and obtaining Social Security Numbers and Drivers Licences ILLEGALLY!
That is the whole point they are law breakers for the “git go”
If someone breaks the law to get into this country, what makes you think they would obey the law once they are here?

Solution...
Put up a wall.
Incarcerate people who hire them.
Shut off the pipeline of free shit, kick their F’n kids out of school, let them bleed out side the ER, and deport the murderers!

They will eventually go home.
 
This kind of makes me wonder what it is that the politicains DO NOT want us to pay attention to. If you notice, every time that they are getting ready to pull something, they try to get EVERYBODY to look in the OTHER direction.
 
The system is obviously broken. The legal immigration and illegal immigration systems. Legal immigration (depending on the country of origin) can take up to twenty years. Many if not all countries of origin, have immigration guotas, that are assigned (often) by politicians.
Speaking from experience, I was sent overseas, didn't ask to be here. Had some kids while I was overseas. Some of my children are lucky. The immigration and status agreements were changed shortly before some were born. Some years earlier, they may have had citizenship from the country they were born in (exclusively, depending on the country) no mater what nationality the father or mother are. I may have had to put my children on an immigration list, to bring them home. My oldest son was born in Germany while I was recuperating from wounds while in service in the republic of Vienam. And as far as I can determine, he has no rights to US citizenship (I wasn't available to fill out the paperwork in a timely manner). Most offspring born overseas, now have the citizenship of the father, the mother or both, depending on the law at the time of birth (it changes periodically and it changes from country to country). The law isn't written in stone and changes all the time. There are still differences in citizenship status, between male and female offspring.
The point of my ramble is, the whole thing is much more complex than people believe and it's doubtfull there is any kind of simple solution, other than radical surgery. You may think my experiences are unique, but to gain a little perspective, the last time I checked there were something like 3 1/2-4 million Americans living and working in Germany alone. I've known many US soldiers with foriegn wives, that served there whole military time (20 years) in a third country, waiting for the immigration paperwork to be finished or even sometimes rejected, waiting to bring there families back to the US.
Just because you live out of the country doesn't make a person any less American. I wonder how many Americans live in Mexico, that may be affected by main stream US policies (and the possible backlash). I'm thinking probably as many as now live in Wyoming, if not more.
I listen to the illegal immigration rant and wonder if the instigators aren't screwing there countrymen living abroad, for there own percieved gain. US policy isn't a vacuum and there is likely to be a whole chain reaction of legislation set in motion in many countries, by whatever policy the US deicdes on.
What the heck does some third generation Irishman (living in Dayton) care what happens in another country? If his son marries a foriegn bride and he has foriegn grandchildren, he just may be shooting himself in the foot, by supporting immigration reform.
Legal, illegal, quota, non quota, dual citizen, non guota waiver (rich or talented). The entire system is FUBARéd.
Personally I think trying to tweak what we have is a waste of time. It never has worked and probably never will work. Every 8-10 years, they pass some new legislation that seems to have little or no affect on the illegal immigration issue.
If they are serious about changing it, it may take a radical and fresh new approach. Some serious enforcement of the laws they already have or it's just peeing in the ocean and/or making election year noises..
 
Zuki-Ron said:
Won't ever happen. The US can not sit on a podium and spout international human rights, then deny assistance to other Humans who have managed to sneak here in the dead of night. Won't fly, the pussy Left won't let it.
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Our government already does this with hurricane victims and enemy combatants...then chastises China for their human rights violations. Poor argument, IMHO.

seanR said:
They will eventually go home.
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Or they'll build strong, independant communities on their own. ;) Keep in mind immigrants are people just like us, not inferior beings void of great ideas. Chances are we'll end up jealous of what they've got going and we'll find some way to persecute them. It's the American way.
 
Good reason to hang on to our arms! God forbid this newer evolution of illegal immigrants tries to do to us 'natives' what the original illegal immigrants did to THE natives! Scary thought huh?

On the other hand....wasnt it not to long ago that the govt. gave amnesty to tens of thousands of illegals? 15-20 years ago? Now they are pushing to do it again! Last time they said we will give amnesty and then thats it! No more!

Why hasnt the US signed the human rights proclamation in Geneva yet? Because they would be held liable for whats going on in their own back yard in a world court! They refuse to sign unless given amnesty!

Yes, they cover the illegals so they look good but like it was already said what about our own??
 
The identity theft thing, is a classic example of, everytime a law is passed a whole bunch of really brite people are scheming a way around it. And the ones that do get caught, are often the stupid or the unlucky.
Illegal aliens have been using phony and borrowed Social Securtiy numbers for decades (if not longer). It is one small jump to identity theft from there.
In my thinking, it is another good reason to get them into a system, maybe not "the" system as it exists now, but some sort of system.
IMO oppinion legal and illegal at some point becomes irrelevant and you have to try and deal with what you've got. Trying to patch up a system that doesn't and hasn't worked for a very long time, seems like a waste fo time.
Here is a couple of articles about how well a double row fifteen foot tall fence works in Morocco (with guard towers and armed guards), that only surrounds an enclave about the size of Gitmo ( a whole lot less than 2000 miles).

http://www.moroccotimes.com/paper/article.asp?idr=2&id=9564
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/29/AR2005092902272.html?nav=rss_world
 
Here in tucson, we have alot of hispanics obviously. I am not racist in any way. Hell, my best friend is of hispanic ancestory (she wheels a Yota - 31 inch MT/Rs ;) shes here legally)... Anyways, this morning at my High School out front of our school before school hours started, lots of kids were protesting. Mostly freshmen who just wanted attention actually. Most of them were holding signs, but no one could read them becuase most of the stupid frosh couldn't figure out how to hold them so people could SEE THEM. One that I was able to read simply said "fight for ILLEGAL RIGHTS". I have to say... thats an oxymoron right there. I know im just some kid bitching, but I believe that RIGHTs are for CITIZENS of a country. Maybe some of you are wondering what is going to happen in the next 15-20 years... When younger generations are voteing and shit... Theres so many hispanics that every kid these days has a friend... and emotion and connections have overpowered logic etc etc... I think hispanics have already taken the country in that respect. Legislation will follow those lines... maybe that is just a very narrow scoped and niave perception (i am young afterall) but thats what i see.
 
I read this post and felt the need to post some rash statement devoid of depth of thought. I knew a simple and complete resolution to the problem was lurking in my mind waiting to be spewed out in type for the world to embrace. However, boredom took over. I often wonder why the world's leaders don't read the off-topic posts. Clearly, here all the world's problems are identified and solved with startling clarity and rapidity
BSD
 
BSD said:
I read this post and felt the need to post some rash statement devoid of depth of thought. I knew a simple and complete resolution to the problem was lurking in my mind waiting to be spewed out in type for the world to embrace. However, boredom took over. I often wonder why the world's leaders don't read the off-topic posts. Clearly, here all the world's problems are identified and solved with startling clarity and rapidity
BSD
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I am now smarter for reading this. Thank you for the enlightening.
 
Well, we covered the ID theft, the far Rights view, the far Left's view, and even a student opinion. We even got the "I don't care and I'm going to post that I don't care so folks will see that I don't care" post.

I look at this like so many things we have allowed the electorate to get away with over the last, say, 35 years. When we went through the last oil crisis, we reformed and vowed never to be under control of those "Towel Heads" (period statement) again. We explored homebrew, hydrogen, and corn oil, then we went back to gas and built our cars big again. When the second oil crisis came about, we did the same thing again, and we mandated the arrival of hybrid vehicles as a majority sell by this year- then Bush torpedo'd it and resurected the flawed Hydrogen scheme so that again, we would not be able to stop our reliance on oil (where do you think we get Hydrogen from?) AND would need to rebuild our infustructure to accomidate it. Back in the 70's people were wading across the border and we called them "Wetbacks". We errected a wall, and someone else put loop holes in the law which allowed caught Mexican's to be set free to wait for a court date - like they were going to suddenly obey the law so they could get deported.

Now both of these are coming to a crisis again, and we have interfered in the internal workings of sovern governments in the name of "freedom". What was the object? To cause us to look somewhere else besides right here at home.

You want to see what the politicians don't want us to see? Look around you - it has always been all around you. The decay of a "Great Society" happens with the mortar, not the bricks.

We say "it is illegal" for Mexicans to come to this country, but we don't stop it. We say they are dragging down our social systems, but again, we do not enforce the existing laws against being here illegally. We say "It is illegal to them to get welfare", yet we freely give it. Illegal's move into our neighborhoods though "clearing houses" - generally relatives, we do not report it. When we do report it, we get "They have done nothing wrong". Illegal's take construction, cleaning, AG jobs, which they say we don't want, but infact, they are willing to take lower wages than the locals and this causes businesses to hire them despite the laws against it and which are largely un-enforced. There was a scandal in the 80's about Politicians and Stars who knowingly hired Illegals to work in their homes and yards. They all got a slapped wrist at most.

Same thing has happened with Gay "rights". When did a lifestyle choice that is still illegal in many States become something normal, even celebrated in the media as a legal choice and a role model for children? Gay "Marriage" legal? Not even legal in their home in their bed.

We say we are a nation of Laws. Those laws are our mortar. When we fail as a society to enforce those laws, when we allow the fringe few to cloud us into thinking that what we agreed is wrong, is now right; will will fail as a society because there will be nothing to hold us together.

[/rant]
 
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Zuki-Ron said:
Well, we covered the ID theft, the far Rights view, the far Left's view, and even a student opinion. We even got the "I don't care and I'm going to post that I don't care so folks will see that I don't care" post.

I look at this like so many things we have allowed the electorate to get away with over the last, say, 35 years. When we went through the last oil crisis, we reformed and vowed never to be under control of those "Towel Heads" (period statement) again. We explored homebrew, hydrogen, and corn oil, then we went back to gas and built our cars big again. When the second oil crisis came about, we did the same thing again, and we mandated the arrival of hybrid vehicles as a majority sell by this year- then Bush torpedo'd it and resurected the flawed Hydrogen scheme so that again, we would not be able to stop our reliance on oil (where do you think we get Hydrogen from?) AND would need to rebuild our infustructure to accomidate it. Back in the 70's people were wading across the border and we called them "Wetbacks". We errected a wall, and someone else put loop holes in the law which allowed caught Mexican's to be set free to wait for a court date - like they were going to suddenly obey the law so they could get deported.

Now both of these are coming to a crisis again, and we have interfered in the internal workings of sovern governments in the name of "freedom". What was the object? To cause us to look somewhere else besides right here at home.

You want to see what the politicians don't want us to see? Look around you - it has always been all around you. The decay of a "Great Society" happens with the mortar, not the bricks.

We say "it is illegal" for Mexicans to come to this country, but we don't stop it. We say they are dragging down our social systems, but again, we do not enforce the existing laws against being here illegally. We say "It is illegal to them to get welfare", yet we freely give it. Illegal's move into our neighborhoods though "clearing houses" - generally relatives, we do not report it. When we do report it, we get "They have done nothing wrong". Illegal's take construction, cleaning, AG jobs, which they say we don't want, but infact, they are willing to take lower wages than the locals and this causes businesses to hire them despite the laws against it and which are largely un-enforced. There was a scandal in the 80's about Politicians and Stars who knowingly hired Illegals to work in their homes and yards. They all got a slapped wrist at most.

Same thing has happened with Gay "rights". When did a lifestyle choice that is still illegal in many States become something normal, even celebrated in the media as a legal choice and a role model for children? Gay "Marriage" legal? Not even legal in their home in their bed.

We say we are a nation of Laws. Those laws are our mortar. When we fail as a society to enforce those laws, when we allow the fringe few to cloud us into thinking that what we agreed is wrong, is now right; will will fail as a society because there will be nothing to hold us together.

[/rant]
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Well said
 
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