I missed the news.. True? Did he say this?

[ocean_jet]

My son has free will to do what I say or not to do what I say. I can see him doing something wrong and tell him to come here and know his response will be to cry because he knows he's going to get spanked. Small example, yes, but my knowledge of his next action didn't change the fact that he still freely chose to do it. The difference is a matter of knowing that we will do something vs pulling the strings to make us do that something.

But your knowledge is not ABSOLUTE. While, there is a very strong liklehood that your son will react in a certain way... there is a chance that he won't. And someday, when he's older and less fearful, he will probably surprise you, and react differently.

Omniscient implies the knowledge of our actions is absolute. Doesn't it?

 

[Bent]

In my opinion, major religions, at their core, are based on positive morality and goodness.

Never heard of islam eh?

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

Never heard of islam eh?

That's not fair to 99% of muslims out there, it's only the extreemists who are curently representing them in the news that make it look bad.

 

[Bent]

That's not fair to 99% of muslims out there, it's only the extreemists who are curently representing them in the news that make it look bad.

It is fair AND it is accurate. My statement is based on the teaching of the koran.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

It is fair AND it is accurate. My statement is based on the teaching of the koran.

Really? I'm sure quite a few here could show teachings of the Bible that would put Christianity in the same light.

And here is an well INFORMED Christian article about Islam.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/marchweb-only/21.0c.html

 

[Bent]

Really? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/marchweb-only/21.0c.html

Really.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

Really.

Ohhh that got me. :rattle: You win!!!


"The attitude of many Muslims toward Christianity and toward the West is colored by the history of conflict that has found expression in the Crusades of Medieval times, European domination and colonialism, as well as Western support for Zionism in most recent times. We must allow the love of God to overcome our own fear and defensiveness and to penetrate these barriers. "

Quoted from http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/islam.html

While I dont personally know any Muslims, I hate blanket statments against whole religons, espically illinformed ones. But eh I am wasting my time becuse God forbid a Christan learn tollerance for fellow man. Oh wait wasnt that Jesus's whole deal?

Doesnt matter as a Pagan i am going to hell any way :firedevil . Oh nevermind I dont belive in hell. Whew skirted that one.

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs.htm

 

[Darky]

Really? I'm sure quite a few here could show teachings of the Bible that would put Christianity in the same light.

And here is an well INFORMED Christian article about Islam.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/marchweb-only/21.0c.html

Read from the New Testament, which by the way is the main text Christians use today, and see what you come away with. The Old Testament is still read and still provides wisdom and insight but the Law of the Old Testament doesn't apply any longer. Its use today is to bring to light our shortcomings and point out our need for God.

 

[Darky]

Ohhh that got me. :rattle: You win!!!


"The attitude of many Muslims toward Christianity and toward the West is colored by the history of conflict that has found expression in the Crusades of Medieval times, European domination and colonialism, as well as Western support for Zionism in most recent times. We must allow the love of God to overcome our own fear and defensiveness and to penetrate these barriers. "

Quoted from http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/islam.html

While I dont personally know any Muslims, I hate blanket statments against whole religons, espically illinformed ones. But eh I am wasting my time becuse God forbid a Christan learn tollerance for fellow man. Oh wait wasnt that Jesus's whole deal?

Doesnt matter as a Pagan i am going to hell any way :firedevil . Oh nevermind I dont belive in hell. Whew skirted that one.

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs.htm

Tolerance is a part of Christianity. A big part. However, tolerance doesn't mean accepting. I tolerate my co-workers smoking in our warehouse around me although I don't accept it as right seeing as to how it's not allowed in any Federal building...I tolerate Islam, Buddhism, Atheism, etc but you'll not convince me those are the right way to go. I won't treat you any differently though. You have a different belief than I and that's fine.

For free-will vs omniscience, I stated in my post its a rather small example, but if you look at it I think it makes a point. Just because God knows what you will do doesn't mean He's stopping you from doing it or forcing you to do it. I won't lie and say it all makes perfect sense to me but it makes more sense than anything else I've come across IMO. Here's how I've had it explained to me: God exists at all times at once. Ask Him where He is and He'll say, "I am"

 

[red91]

I wish this thread, and Ted Kennedy would both die.

Maybe one could see the hand of God.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

BlackSport96, I can agree with you. You at least show tollerance and have an open mind to other's belifs.

 

[FlexdXJ]

so if I am a jewish monk does that make me unamerican? whats wrong with you man. WAKE UP and smell the roses. Who cares if people are different religions than christian. I work with all sorts of people who are different religions. they are all American Citizens too. will someone nominate him for tard wars again

 

[Bent]

You at least show tollerance and have an open mind to other's belifs.

Open mind?

Extremists?




Koran 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

Koran 8.12 - When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Koran 002.191 - And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Koran 004.089 - They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

Koran 4.56 - (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Koran 9.29 - Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Koran 9.123 - O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366 - It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126 - Narrated Imran: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women.

This war on behalf of Allah is to continue until the judgment day <kiyamat>. It will not come to an until <<Dajjal is killed>> (Abu Dawood, Kitab-ul Jihad, 4-Babuun fi Devami'l Jihad, hadis 2484, Vloume 3, page 4).

Koran 009.005 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Finally, the motivation for suicide bombings:

Koran 009.111 - God hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and SLAY AND ARE SLAIN: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than God? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.(Emphasis mine)
Koran 4.74 - Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.


Please interpret; I am just not seeing why people only want to believe that extremists are misconstruing this stuff. Before some politically correct, bury your head in the sand lefty squeals, when read in context, the message is the same; serious as a heart attack.


:read:

 

[ZomBrady]

Yeah but mine had cool box around it...

Yeah, mine did too. But I don't feel comfortable disrespecting religious images, so I'll just give you the text version.

See! I can be sensitive.

 

[ZomBrady]

Open mind?

Extremists?




Koran 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

Koran 8.12 - When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Koran 002.191 - And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Koran 004.089 - They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

Koran 4.56 - (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Koran 9.29 - Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Koran 9.123 - O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366 - It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126 - Narrated Imran: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women.

This war on behalf of Allah is to continue until the judgment day <kiyamat>. It will not come to an until <<Dajjal is killed>> (Abu Dawood, Kitab-ul Jihad, 4-Babuun fi Devami'l Jihad, hadis 2484, Vloume 3, page 4).

Koran 009.005 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Finally, the motivation for suicide bombings:

Koran 009.111 - God hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and SLAY AND ARE SLAIN: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than God? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.(Emphasis mine)
Koran 4.74 - Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.


Please interpret; I am just not seeing why people only want to believe that extremists are misconstruing this stuff. Before some politically correct, bury your head in the sand lefty squeals, when read in context, the message is the same; serious as a heart attack.


:read:

I'm totally with Tim on the one. Islam and the Koran CAN be just as, if not more, scary than 'our' christian extremists interpretation of the Bible.

























. . . and I'm a lefty extremist according to some.

 

[TRNDRVR]

So, what about us Christ believing but not wack job religious and not bottom hitting yet born again Christians?

Goatman, when's the last time you preached to me?

Never!

My comment was aimed at the weak minded, rock bottom hitting, born again religious wackjobs who preach to me that I'm an piece of shit because I haven't succumbed and believe the same as them.

I can guarantee you this, I have lived, and still live a more "moral" life than most of them can only imagine. All without god.

F*ck'em! I rest my case.

Are we OK?

Richard, that's a loaded question!

 

[GSequoia]

Maybe one could see the hand of God.

Yes, I am a god, but this God doesn't act on request...


The thread hasn't gotten bad enough for action and I'd like to see it stay that way!

 

[red91]

Yes, I am a god, but this God doesn't act on request...


The thread hasn't gotten bad enough for action and I'd like to see it stay that way!

Take your high moral ground bullshit rhetoric and shove it up your ass!

how's that? :looser:

I didn't find Jesus in jail, he was behind the dumpster on 6th ave.

 

[ZomBrady]

Take your high moral ground bullshit rhetoric and shove it up your ass!

how's that? :looser:

I didn't find Jesus in jail, he was behind the dumpster on 6th ave.

Spank him! Spank him!

jk.

 

[red91]

Spank him! Spank him!

jk.

I fear NO moderator.

Just ask'em.





:lock: