High pinion 30 vs. low pinion

gijosiahh

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Richmond VA
I searched but could not really find an answer. Obviously a high pinion dana 30 is preferred over a low pinion, but what exactly makes it better? As you can tell i don't know a whole lot about this topic, so any input is appreciated. I have an 01 with 8.25 rear and the low pinion 30 up front and i'm trying to figure out whether i should keep it or sell it, make some profit, and buy a pre-2000 with a high pinion 30 and 8.25. Then i'd have some left over money to buy stuff to lift it. so would keeping the lp 30 really make that big of a difference and cause problems? the biggest i think i will end up going is 33s. thanks for any help.
 
Main thing about a high pinion is the driveline angle.. Once you lift a low pinion, the driveshaft is at a greater angle because the pinion is lower to the ground. I just sold my 99's HP to a guy with a 00' needing a LP for just that reason.
 
If you are planning on going with 33's your going to need quite a bit of lift. That is if you are against trimming your fenders. I fit 34's on my 88 with a 3" suspension lift and 2" spacers. But I also had to cut out the fenders about and inch all the way up to the lower body line. at full flex the tire still rubbed the bottom of the fender flare in the rear. So to get on with the low pinion 30 with this much lift you are going to raise the transfer case this same 5 inches higher increasing the driveshaft angle, But if you were to have a high pinion the drive shaft would be decreased becuase you have rasied the point that the drive shaft connects to the axle. thus reducing the angle that the Low pinion would have with a 5 in lift. I have also heard that the High pinion is stronger due to the way it meshes with the ring gear. I belive it pulls the ring gear around insted of pushing it around. I could be wrong though. If it were me I would go with a high pinion. I am installing a Dana 44 from an 83 Jeep cherokee that is low pinion and the drive shaft angle is horrid. also I'm sure that with the 9 in of lift I'm going to have when I articulate I am going to have issues with the drive shaft hitting the Cross member. If I could find a ford high pinion 44 this issue would be greatly reduced. I Hope I helped and did not just waste your time with my little story
 
the HP dana 30 has reverse cut gears where the LP dana 30 is standard cut gears

Reverse-Cut vs. Standard-Cut:

Often mistakenly referred to as "reverse rotation," the term "reverse-cut" is perhaps the single most misunterstood term by four wheelers and even many in the axle business. Areverse cut housing is not just like a standard cut housing turned upside down. It is a specially designed housing for fount driving axles. Contrary to popular belief, it does not turn backwards or in reverse. The term "reverse-cut" actually refers to the direcrtion of the spiral cut in the ring gear.

In a reverse cut axle, the spiral on the ring gear is opposite form a standard -cut ring gear. The idea behind reverse cut is to strengthen the operation of the gear when it is used for a front axle application.


In the early day of four wheel drive, the front axle used the same gears and housing as an ordinary rearend. This was done for economic reasons, since the components were already in mass production. They simply added the necessary parts to enable steering. However, all ring and pinion gears are cut in such a way that they are inherently stronger when pushing the cehicle in the forward direction and weaker when driving in reverse. That means that a standard cut (rearend style) gear, when used in the front, must push on the weaker side of the gear to move the vehicle in a forward direction.

This practive continued until the late 1970s, when Dana designed a new axle that would be stronger for front axle use and also provide better driveline angles for the shorter fornt driveshafts then being used in new trucks. The reverse cut housing and reverse cut gear set can be identified by the pinion gear, which is located abve the centerline of the axle shaft. Therefore, standard cut gears are always strongest when used in rear axles and reverse cut gears are stonger when used in front axles.

Reverse cut axles have also become popular for lifted short wheelbase vehicles like Jeeps, early Broncos and Land Cruisers. The reason is because the higher pinion location greatly reduces rear driveshaft angles. However, not all reverse cut axles are strong enough for use as a rearend. The cut of the gear that makes them stronger for the front axle use also makes them somewhat weaker for the rear axle use. The best and most popular reverse cut axle for rearend use is the Dana 60, a good choice because of its larg ring gear diameter, tooth strength, ability to accept 35 spline axle shafts and wide selection of ratios and differentials.

Two other reverse cut axle are the Dana 44 and a new Ford 8.8" reverse cut. The Dana 44 makes an excellent front axle, but just isn't strong enough for rear axle use. The Ford 8.8", reverse cut rearend (new from Currie Enterprises) has a slightly larger ring gear than the 8.5" of the Dana 44 but is not nearly as strong as the Dana 60, which has a 9.75" ring gear. The new 8.8" uses a special third member that bolts into a removable carrier Ford 9 inch housing and its somethimes mistakenly referred to as a reverse cut Ford 9 inch. Both the Dana 44 and the ford 8.8" can accept a maximum of a 30 to 31 spline axle shaft.

The bottom line is that reverse cut gears (front axle style) and axle assemblies are inherently stonger for fornt axle use because of the way the gear mesh when moving the vehicle forward direction. They also provide better driveline angles because the pinion is located above the centerline of the axle. The gear set used in each type of aaxle are not interchangeable. Standard cut gears cannot be used in place of reverse cut and vice versa. The housins are also not interchangeable. However, differental cases, be open, limited slip or locker are compatible with both styles, as long as the spline count matches the axle shaft.

-Reverse-Cut vs. Standard-Cut taken from FourWheeler January 1999

this info is taken directly from this website
http://www.cj7jeep.com/info/axle/basics.html#5
 
Amusingly enough, I don't believe a high pinion axle will actually be effectivly stronger in a front application. I would still use one, however, because the benfits.



I blew my HPD30 R&P because I had to reassess my line (read, back up) while traveling downhill. Upon throwing the truck in reverse I was now driving the coast side of the front gearset, which was also seeing the majority of the weight of the truck, and was also of a pathetic size. The result was about 15 teeth lying in the bottom of the diff. A standard cut gearset may well have survived this (or maybe not), but the reality is that rarely does the front gearset see the majority of the vehicle's weight while driving forewards.



But, like I said, I'd still use one. I'm rocking a standard D44 in the front now and hate what it does for my driveshaft - it was thrown in only for convenience. It is slated to be swapped out sometime in the relatively near future; either for a HPD44 or a CHP 9 (8.8).
 
gijosiahh said:
I have an 01 with 8.25 rear and the low pinion 30 up front and i'm trying to figure out whether i should keep it or sell it, make some profit, and buy a pre-2000 with a high pinion 30 and 8.25. Then i'd have some left over money to buy stuff to lift it. so would keeping the lp 30 really make that big of a difference and cause problems? the biggest i think i will end up going is 33s. .
You missed another option...I've got an '01 that I'm building, and for $80 I've got a lower mileage '96 HP D30 from tire to tire, including steering sitting in my garage. When I've got the money for regearing, I'll swap front axles. I also don't plan on bigger then 33's, and expect the HP D30 (open) to do just fine. This is my DD. If you like your '01, or have started building, just find an older HP D30 and keep going.
Carry on...
 
TheHighHeat said:
$80 is a steal, when I was looking for a HP 30 yards here wanted like 250-400 for a 93HP with almost 200k on it, I don't know what they were smoking but I bet they still have that axle
Yeh, it was such a great deal I couldn't pass it up. It was from a guy in my local club parting out a '96 while trying to use most of the parts to make another Cherokee run. It's actually been in my garage for the better part of 2 years....bought it while the jeep was still stock, but I was brewing up a plan by that point. I didn't know it had the wrong gearing in it until I got it home(from a stick- I've got an auto) so I can't use it until it gets regeared! One of these days...:D
 
gijosiahh said:
I searched but could not really find an answer. Obviously a high pinion dana 30 is preferred over a low pinion, but what exactly makes it better? As you can tell i don't know a whole lot about this topic, so any input is appreciated. I have an 01 with 8.25 rear and the low pinion 30 up front and i'm trying to figure out whether i should keep it or sell it, make some profit, and buy a pre-2000 with a high pinion 30 and 8.25. Then i'd have some left over money to buy stuff to lift it. so would keeping the lp 30 really make that big of a difference and cause problems? the biggest i think i will end up going is 33s. thanks for any help.

Don't sell your 01 just buy a HP D30 to swap in especially if your 01 is in good running order because you never know what you are going to get into when buying a used vehicle.
 
Damn, heat.. i just sold one saturday for 100, off my 99
 
Idaho-88XJ said:
So to get on with the low pinion 30 with this much lift you are going to raise the transfer case this same 5 inches higher increasing the driveshaft angle, But if you were to have a high pinion the drive shaft would be decreased becuase you have rasied the point that the drive shaft connects to the axle. thus reducing the angle that the Low pinion would have with a 5 in lift.
I want some of what you been smoking!Myself and the entire TJ nation have been running a LP D30 for 6yrs now at 6"+.Just make a liitle compromise between castor and pinion angles!
 
RCP Phx said:
I want some of what you been smoking!Myself and the entire TJ nation have been running a LP D30 for 6yrs now at 6"+.Just make a liitle compromise between castor and pinion angles!

You TJ/YJ guys also build D35's to run 35" tires...it doesn't seem to bright.
 
RCP Phx said:
I want some of what you been smoking!Myself and the entire TJ nation have been running a LP D30 for 6yrs now at 6"+.Just make a liitle compromise between castor and pinion angles!

Isnt a TJ front DS longer than an XJ front DS?
 
Ray H said:
Isnt a TJ front DS longer than an XJ front DS?
I wouldnt know I only have XJ's,one just happens to be a 2000 LP D30!
 
I agree with RCP, The LP will handle the 33's fine and if you trade off smartly on the pinion angle and caster you will likely see no ill effects. As to strength, I just blew my first LP gear set. This on a D-44 lp front. But I run an atlas II and 38's and was doing a front dig at the time. I knew better but hey. Discretion is the better part......
Run the LP, see how your drive line comes out. For daily driving you can always pull the front D/S, and can change it out after you get the lift and tires the way you like it.
My $.02
 
no tj and xj front axles are the same width, basicly the same axle. you could always just add adjustable upper control arms to help with the pinion angle. i have a d44 out of an 04 rubicon. good thing is a locker and bigger shafts and a bigger ring and pinion. bad thing low pinion. but adjustable uppers fixed pinion angle.
 
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