Greg Smith power door lock questions???

[xjtrailrider]

I'm getting things together to do this upgrade since my 90 XJ's door locks have finally gotten too weak to work properly.

I have the relays and sockets but the write up is a little vague on a few things. Greg has the new power source going into 87 and 87a going to ground? Won't this cause a short?

Also his write up doesn't get into very good detail about the wiring schematic. If you read the following write up you will see what I'm talking about;http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=983428. I need a schematic to work by since I suck at word problems:doh: I sat down this am to draw out my own schematic but the write up leaves too many details too vague to even guess at, a schematic would clear it all up and should be added to the write up.

Some one help me out here, I want my door locks back!

TIA

 

[MT Mike]

I've done this on at least 4 XJs with no wiring schematic and never had an issue. The write up is pretty cut and dry (IMO). Don't over think it, just follow the instructions and it WILL work.

Maybe someone else out there has a schematic they sketched up? :dunno:

 

[xjtrailrider]

I've done this on at least 4 XJs with no wiring schematic and never had an issue. The write up is pretty cut and dry (IMO). Don't over think it, just follow the instructions and it WILL work.

Maybe someone else out there has a schematic they sketched up? :dunno:

A couple of the issues I have are;

My relays are not marked "87" and "87a", both terminals on each relay are marked "87" so thats a problem or does it matter?

Is one relay for the lt green wire and one for the tan wire? I say this because he only talks about "cutting the lt green and tan wire(singular) about 5 inches forward towards the front of the Jeep". Is there a lt green/tan wire in that area or is there only a lt green and tan wires in that area?

What is the "trigger" wire for each relay? and what color wire should be hooked to "30" on the first relay, its not stated in the write up other than "30 is the path to the lock"

I'm not trying to overthink it, I just want to get it right and the write up is vague in some area's. A schematic would clear it up for me.

 

[Pelican]

87 and 87a terminals are different -- you need a 5 terminal relay.

Here is one schematic: http://www.jeeptuning-foto.com/albums/userpics/10010/two-relays.pdf

I did the mod many years ago but cannot attest to the accuracy of the schematic with just a glance.

you need to do a search in OEM tech to find all of the answers to your questions.

 

[MT Mike]

A couple of the issues I have are;

My relays are not marked "87" and "87a", both terminals on each relay are marked "87" so thats a problem or does it matter?

Is one relay for the lt green wire and one for the tan wire? I say this because he only talks about "cutting the lt green and tan wire(singular) about 5 inches forward towards the front of the Jeep". Is there a lt green/tan wire in that area or is there only a lt green and tan wires in that area?

What is the "trigger" wire for each relay? and what color wire should be hooked to "30" on the first relay, its not stated in the write up other than "30 is the path to the lock"

I'm not trying to overthink it, I just want to get it right and the write up is vague in some area's. A schematic would clear it up for me.

Lt green and tan are the ONLY wires cut/spliced. The rest of the power and ground needs to be run directly to battery by you. Here is another thread were Greg chimes in quite a bit: More power door lock info. It may or may not make it a little clearer for you. I just found the same diagram that Pelican posted and it looks accurate. As far as your relays being different, I have no idea if they'll work that way. I had picked up a handful of the OEM relays from the junkyard over the years, and that is what I used. I know Greg mentions that he has picked up the same relays at various auto parts stores in the past.

 

[xjtrailrider]

87 and 87a terminals are different -- you need a 5 terminal relay.

Here is one schematic: http://www.jeeptuning-foto.com/albums/userpics/10010/two-relays.pdf

I did the mod many years ago but cannot attest to the accuracy of the schematic with just a glance.

you need to do a search in OEM tech to find all of the answers to your questions.

Thats what I'm looking for! Can some one verify if the schematic is correct? I think I'm going to have to pick up some different relays as well.

Thanks

Lt green and tan are the ONLY wires cut/spliced. The rest of the power and ground needs to be run directly to battery by you. Here is another thread were Greg chimes in quite a bit: More power door lock info. It may or may not make it a little clearer for you. I just found the same diagram that Pelican posted and it looks accurate. As far as your relays being different, I have no idea if they'll work that way. I had picked up a handful of the OEM relays from the junkyard over the years, and that is what I used. I know Greg mentions that he has picked up the same relays at various auto parts stores in the past.

Helpful! Thanks!

 

[Pelican]

A relay with two 87 terminals and no 87a terminal is a specialty configuration often used to control something like two headlamps with one relay.

You need a 5-terminal relay with both an 87 terminal and an 87a terminal. The 30 and 87a terminals provide a "normally closed" circuit; that is, current is allowed to flow until the actuating coil is energized and the contacts separate. At that time, the 30 and 87 terminals close and allow current flow in the "normally open" configuration.

An inexpensive source for automotive relays (other than the junkyard) is Parts Express: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=746

They currently have name brand (Tyco/Bosch) 5pin relays on for $2.75 rated at 20/30 amps ( NC contacts 20a/NO 30a). They have relays with other ratings as low as ~$1.69.

For a much broader selection of electrical supplies go to Del City, also with good prices on relays with higher amp ratings: http://www.delcity.net/navi?action=home

With the schematic you have probably sorted out the trigger wires but in any event, these are the green and tan wires on the schematic that go to the 86 terminals.

 

[xjtrailrider]

Thanks everyone for the help. I will pick up some 5 blade relays tomorrow and fix these locks for good!

I think for future searchers it would be nice to add the schematic to the write up in the FAQ section. That could have saved me a few of the questions I had.

 

[MT Mike]

Thanks everyone for the help. I will pick up some 5 blade relays tomorrow and fix these locks for good!

I think for future searchers it would be nice to add the schematic to the write up in the FAQ section. That could have saved me a few of the questions I had.

I will see if I can get that done. :thumbup:

 

[xjtrailrider]

For those who may be searching:

You can get the relays and sockets from NAPA if you prefer to buy locally. The part numbers are;

20a 5 pin relay by ECHLIN, NAPA part# AR272
5 pin relay socket (single relay) (called a connector by ECHLIN) NAPA part# EC23

I ordered my relays and dual socket from the linked supplier in Gregs write-up but these parts are just as good but more expensive.

 

[xjtrailrider]

I got around to doing this today and although it fixed both rears and the pass side front(which has always worked) the drivers front door is still not working. It locks but will only unlock halfway.

Any suggestions?

 

[MT Mike]

I got around to doing this today and although it fixed both rears and the pass side front(which has always worked) the drivers front door is still not working. It locks but will only unlock halfway.

Any suggestions?

You may have to take your door panel off and clean the old lock mechanism up. I had to do the same thing on one of the XJs I did this on. There was some kind of lube that had become a thick nasty paste that was impeding the movement of the lock, especially when cold. The other three didn't have that issue, so I did not take those apart. HTH.

 

[5-90]

Standard wiring pattern for DIN relays:
- 30 is Power Feed from source (usually battery or distribution)
- 85 is Relay Trigger from switch
- 86 is ground

The next two get a little spotty...

FOUR-PIN RELAYS: Pin 87 is the "normally open" contact, and is power to the consumer.

FIVE-PIN RELAYS: Two variations here:
- If there are two pins labelled "87", then both of them are "normally open" and can be used to feed two different circuits. Think of this one as a logical AND - either circuit 1 AND circuit 2 are ON, or circuit 1 AND circuit 2 are off.
- If you have "87" and "87a", "87" is normally OPEN and "87a" is normally CLOSED. This is known as a "changeover" relay - when you trip it, the two terminals will change state. So, it's a logical OR - one circuit will be on OR the other.

"normally open" - these contacts are turned OFF until power is applied to the relay.
"normally closed" - these contacts are turned ON until power is applied to the relay.

 

[xjtrailrider]

Thanks Jon, yes I did get the 5 pin relays with 87 and 87a terminals although I didnt the first time a picked up some relays.

 

[xjtrailrider]

You may have to take your door panel off and clean the old lock mechanism up. I had to do the same thing on one of the XJs I did this on. There was some kind of lube that had become a thick nasty paste that was impeding the movement of the lock, especially when cold. The other three didn't have that issue, so I did not take those apart. HTH.

This will be my next step. Thanks

 

[xjtrailrider]

Ok, now they work!!

It turned out to be the factory relay in the kick panel. apparently the relay had a corroded connection. inside it. Luckily I had ordered 2 extra relays so I changed out the window relay as well now they work better too:clap:

The door locks "SLAM" locked and unlocked now. I played with them for about 15min until I annoyed my wife.