Government legislated GPS transponders in your car?!

Yep! Sure is. The Feds have the same "string" attached to airport improvement funds. And the law is the law. BELIEVE in it while you try to land at Meigs field in Chicago.

I don't believe you can draw a parallel. That I recall, the Feds didn't have money invested in Meigs. There was in essence a custody battle surrounding that airport for years, and it actually did close for a while.

I still believe in my heart that the Mayor of Chicago did wrong that night and that he owes people one historic airport, but that's not likely to happen.

But we digress...
 
I don't believe you can draw a parallel. That I recall, the Feds didn't have money invested in Meigs. There was in essence a custody battle surrounding that airport for years, and it actually did close for a while.
Chicago had already gotten an airport improvement grant several years before. That's what was keeping the city of Chicago(or that criminal Daley)from legally closing it.

I wasn't digressing. My point was, if Oregon decides to enact a new tax system for highway use, the feds won't stop them, even if it seems to(or does) break federal law.

Meigs was just an example.
 
Yes, digress. Meigs was a whole other kettle of fish. Keeping the field open was a multi-decade effort that had the backing of the State, the General Aviation population and the Feds. However, the penalty from the FAA was paulty compared with what the Mayor and City of Chicago considered to be in their best interest.

The string behind hwy funds is that if you accept them, you are obligated to not Toll. If you decide to Toll, you loose funding. It is not a law, it is a condition.

Wisconsin looked into making I94 between Madison and Milwaukee a Toll and decided that what they would gain in tolls would not excede the amount of Federal money they would loose by doing it. So, at this point, it is still an open Highway which is Federally funded. At anypoint though, some pencil pusher could change all that if he could prove to the state that they could collect more in taxes than the Fed supplies them in funds and support.

More to the point, IMO that's what would hapen if OR decided to do in essence, toll in motion. They would likely loose their Federal funds which would make the whole process moot.
 
I haven't flown into Miegs field in damned near 20 years - what did I miss?

As far as phone GPS tech - a lot of that can be overcome easily; just don't go about with the thing permanently attached to your hip. Leave it at home once in a while.

For the whole "new car" thing - so far, my XJ has been the closest to my "ideal vehicle" to date, and I haven't seen anything new that I'd want to buy in the first place (the reason for the new Verona wasn't because we wanted a new car, but we needed something that I didn't have to fix every week-end and have working Monday morning. 200K rash and all that sort of thing...) I haven't seen anything else I've been willing to buy - OBD-II doesn't tolerate ad hoc mods and repairs well (and parts can be spendy,) manual transmissions are getting harder to find - much less with useful gear ratios - I don't want IFS or IRS, I want useful cargo capacity and useful 4WD (with a low range, just in case,) and quite a few other things that just aren't happing anymore.

I guess I'm just cranky.

As far as the whole "new tax" thing - same thing I've been saying for years. "Spirit of '76 - Re-elect Nobody!" If we throw them all out on their collective arse, they may get the idea!
 
The only was I wold support any of that GPS pay-per-mile gadget is if it was hardware limited to tracking ONLY miles driven, not where or how, and all fuel taxes were eliminated.

Since that is never going to happen though, I would never support the GPS tracking. I think it is time to digress the government record keeping back to about 1749 technology as far as I am concerned.
 
At first I thought the OP had his Tin Hat on too tight, but so far today, I have seen 2 articles on AP about just this sort of idea. Seems we just aren't buying enough gas to pay for all the extras we've allowed tacked onto the gas tax.

How did those agencys pay for stuff 4 years ago when fuel was cheaper ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Motorists-habits-spur-call-apf-13953609.html

My tinfoil hat was on 'too tight', eh? Whatever.

I don't buy into the mentality of "if you're not doing anything illegal, then why worry." I simply do not believe that our government, state or federal, has the right to keep tabs on our comings and goings for any reason. I don't care how mundane those reasons are. If that puts me in the tinfoil hat group, fine.
 
My tinfoil hat was on 'too tight', eh? Whatever.

I don't buy into the mentality of "if you're not doing anything illegal, then why worry." I simply do not believe that our government, state or federal, has the right to keep tabs on our comings and goings for any reason. I don't care how mundane those reasons are. If that puts me in the tinfoil hat group, fine.




X2

Refuse-Resist Sepultura:Chaos A.D.
 
My tinfoil hat was on 'too tight', eh? Whatever.

I don't buy into the mentality of "if you're not doing anything illegal, then why worry." I simply do not believe that our government, state or federal, has the right to keep tabs on our comings and goings for any reason. I don't care how mundane those reasons are. If that puts me in the tinfoil hat group, fine.

LOL! :D

I actually don't believe that the Government could give a crap about the comings and goings of the citizenry. There are simply too many citizens and too much ennui in the Government to do any sort of individual analysis.

The privacy flag has already been raised via the ACLU and others. Just about the only way this would pass, is if there were safeguards in place to prevent data outside of that needed to bill you for miles gone. OBDII should already allow for the monitoring of mileage via the onboard computer. Hook that up to a transponder like over the road tolling uses and no GPS data would be needed and you would be billed for the difference in mileage between readings like a Gas Meter.

My concern was not a privacy issue, but a monitary one. You shouldn't get taxed twice for the same thing, and it appeared that's what the OR Governor was looking at in the article. The concept that everyone who uses the road should pay for it no matter what fuel they use isn't something that came directly to mind when I read the article, that's why I posted up another link.

I still want to know how agencies paid for stuff when gas was the same price it is now and the fuel tax was about the same.
 
My tinfoil hat was on 'too tight', eh? Whatever.

I don't buy into the mentality of "if you're not doing anything illegal, then why worry." I simply do not believe that our government, state or federal, has the right to keep tabs on our comings and goings for any reason. I don't care how mundane those reasons are. If that puts me in the tinfoil hat group, fine.

X2

Refuse-Resist Sepultura:Chaos A.D.

I'm with you guys on that!

LOL! :D

I actually don't believe that the Government could give a crap about the comings and goings of the citizenry. There are simply too many citizens and too much ennui in the Government to do any sort of individual analysis.

The privacy flag has already been raised via the ACLU and others. Just about the only way this would pass, is if there were safeguards in place to prevent data outside of that needed to bill you for miles gone. OBDII should already allow for the monitoring of mileage via the onboard computer. Hook that up to a transponder like over the road tolling uses and no GPS data would be needed and you would be billed for the difference in mileage between readings like a Gas Meter.

My concern was not a privacy issue, but a monitary one. You shouldn't get taxed twice for the same thing, and it appeared that's what the OR Governor was looking at in the article. The concept that everyone who uses the road should pay for it no matter what fuel they use isn't something that came directly to mind when I read the article, that's why I posted up another link.

I still want to know how agencies paid for stuff when gas was the same price it is now and the fuel tax was about the same.

IIRC that bit about transponders being added to OBD2 computers was what ACLU and SEMA were fighting in the 90's.
 
"There comes a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, the people who own it, that unless you're free the machine will be prevented from working at all."


Mario Savio
 
I have my vehicles smog tested evey two years. I know in other states there are some sort of inspections and of course there is registrations that need to occur. It seems to me that the milegae could be recorded during these inspections (it is written down) and then the tax levied on the 1-2 years worth of mileage at that time. No GPS tracking concerns, no big brother watching, and the bureaucracy could still squeeze the working man.
 
I have my vehicles smog tested evey two years. I know in other states there are some sort of inspections and of course there is registrations that need to occur. It seems to me that the milegae could be recorded during these inspections (it is written down) and then the tax levied on the 1-2 years worth of mileage at that time. No GPS tracking concerns, no big brother watching, and the bureaucracy could still squeeze the working man.

That would make sense - then the outcry from people getting clobbered with the lump sum might make it stop rather sharply...
 
Hmmm all you people made fun of use aluminum hat people. Now we can take off our hats, and place them over the GPS antenna. ;)
 
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