Goodburbon's hydrogen experiment

I have a bit of a hiccup at this point. I blew the 20 A fuse on the way to school this morning.

No the foam hasn't melted, it is underwater. The water IS getting hot (hotter than ambient underhood temps.)
 
Just as a plastic- cup full of water won't burn in a fire, the pvc won't melt as long as there is liquid water in it since the melting point of the PVC is in excess of 212*.
 
goodburbon said:
Just as a plastic- cup full of water won't burn in a fire, the pvc won't melt as long as there is liquid water in it since the melting point of the PVC is in excess of 212*.

if the water reaches the excess melting point of PVC, then the PVC will melt...there is no question to that being fact.

how quickly though, is another matter.
 
Yes but since the melting point of PVC is above 212, the PVC can not melt as long as there is liquid water in it. steam is another story and may have an effect above the water line.

Also of note, the hose I have chosen is too flexible and collapses while the engine is running I have stiffer hose at home, but it is not transparent. I could still see bubbles moving through the tube as gas was produced, but in order to maintain a better flow I will change hoses and coat the electrical connectors tonight.
 
goodburbon said:
Yes but since the melting point of PVC is above 212, the PVC can not melt as long as there is liquid water in it. steam is another story and may have an effect above the water line.

Also of note, the hose I have chosen is too flexible and collapses while the engine is running I have stiffer hose at home, but it is not transparent. I could still see bubbles moving through the tube as gas was produced, but in order to maintain a better flow I will change hoses and coat the electrical connectors tonight.

Why not plumb it in before the throttle body? It'll still go in to the engine, it just won't be subjected to much vacuum.
 
goodburbon said:
I have a bit of a hiccup at this point. I blew the 20 A fuse on the way to school this morning.

did you read in that lonestar thread about that guy blowing fuses? Said he had to back down the voltage to 4 volts and ended up with more gas and less heat.

Don't know if that helps, but I'm bored at work and read the whole thing.
 
goodburbon said:
Good thinking, Noted and will do this pm.

One other thing, read up on arcing and exploding HHO generators, due to poor contacts and corrosion inside their cells ASAP at:

http://diyhydrogenhho.com/

At least you have a cap that may release before exploding on yours, (don't over tighten it, get it just snug enough to where it can still be pulled out by hand) , but no doubt some of the idiots out there have exploded their galss jar versions and left glass fragments in the neighbors cat already!

Looks like we need solid metal, one piece electrodes going through the cell wall, with the copper contacts on the outside of the cells.

On the PVC, the sch 40 pipe is derated to 0 psi pressure service at 140 F, as it looses its structual integrity above 140 F! I am pretty sure it melts well before 212 F!

The styrofoam can handle boiling water at 212 F IIRC.

Fast and simple way to drop the current is to reduce the water volume and thus the area of exposed plates, or to reduce the amount of sodium bicarbonate used. I would drain half the water, and refill it with distilled water to drop the bicarbonate concentration in half, and see if that gets the current under control. Might also want to drop the water level some to keep liquid water out of the intake and feed hose.

You might look for some polyethylene water tubing for ice machines at Home depot, about 1/4" ID, and try to fit some of it to vacuum hose rubber tubing in line.

In the long run, best way to drop the overall current and increase the HHO output is to add plates in series between the 2 outer (+/-) plates to drop the per plate pair voltage.
 
Also I have not been getting water in my intake, as I can see through my clear tube. I will, drain the water below my contacts to reduce draw, but I can't dilute here as I have no distilled water available at work.
 
PVC does NOT melt at or below 212. Yes, it is not rated for survice at those elavated temps, but this is not a pressure application so it's ok for a test.

What happens if it fails? It makes a little mess and may cause the plates to short. Just don't put it where a leak would cause harm, or where melting PVC would land on something hot and burn, and have a fuse in case of a short. PVC's OK for this test.
 
may i be so ignorant as to ask wtf is this thread about? i read the entire first page looks like all you guys know what this is, but im lost haha
 
srimes said:
PVC does NOT melt at or below 212. Yes, it is not rated for survice at those elavated temps, but this is not a pressure application so it's ok for a test.

What happens if it fails? It makes a little mess and may cause the plates to short. Just don't put it where a leak would cause harm, or where melting PVC would land on something hot and burn, and have a fuse in case of a short. PVC's OK for this test.

According to this site:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Polyvinyl_chloride

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVC

PVC melts at 176 F
80 C = 80*1.8 +32 = 176 F
 
Hose replaced with a stiffer one, and the PVC is still structurally sound.

I have had PVC under my hood before, some lightweight stuff I had tried to use for an intake. It becomes discolored when over exposed to heat.

For now I am just keeping the level of water/Baking soda halfway up the plates to keep the amperage low and keep the fittings out of the water.

I filled up this morning, Calculated MPG was 24.83 but the outlet hose for the generator was collapsing and half of the mileage on that tank was without the unit installed. The next tank should be considered actual results.
 
Ecomike said:
According to this site:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Polyvinyl_chloride

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVC

PVC melts at 176 F
80 C = 80*1.8 +32 = 176 F

Plastic doesn't have a clear "melting point," at least according to common usage. It has a "glass transition temperature" where it changes from brittle to maleable, and as it gets hotter it gets softer. I'm not sure, but I think the so-called "melting point" is defined in relation to the glass transtion and isn't really used much in practice.

I've heat-bent PVC before and I'm sure it got hotter than 212 without melting (turning liquid), so the given melting point of 176 didn't sit well with me. I got a coffie can and boiled water with a piece of PVC pipe to see what would happen. It did get soft enough to bend, but it didn't deform under its own weight and it didn't turn liquid. So I'll stand by my orgional assertion and say that it doesn't "melt" below 212, but it does get soft.

I googled PVC welding temp and found that the welding temp window was 250*C to 375 *C. 250*C = 482*F, and I think it's fair to say it's liquid in order to be welded, so it turns liquid by that point.
 
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