Front Suspension Basics 101

[bimmerjeeper]

"Rock the wheel" refers to turning the steering wheel back and forth, left to right, right to left, etc. This can be done with the engine off and the steering column unlocked or with the engine running. I prefer to have the engine running, makes it easier. So have someone "rock the wheel" while you are on the ground and looking at the steering linkage and track bar. Look for any visual slop while the steering wheel is being turned back and forth. You can also hold onto the end of the component and feel for any slop as the wheel is being turned back and forth. Hope this helps and Merry Christmas! You can also search for Stu-offroad.com for good tech info.

Al, thank you for the clarification! I will give this a try when a relative comes over. I have already had a mechanic replace the drag link tie rod end ball joint thing, but I guess that could be another item to check for slop while turning the steering wheel.

 

[Ecomike]

LMAO!!!!!!:roflmao:

Surely, you can't be this stupid. Again, go out and do what, exactly? Do I just go "rock the wheel" when I don't even know what he even means?

Ok, let me try to demonstrate how asinine your repetitive "advice" is. Do me a favor, please go out and "instantiate a tree flexion" right now. Then come back and tell me how long it took you. What you don't know what it means? ARE YOU AN IDIOT? JUST DO IT, DUDE! JUST TRY TILL SOMETHING WORKS. GO! At least go find a tree! That's the first step. Worry about the rest later. Look, just "instantiate a tree flexion"! Stop asking questions!! It's so simple that a 17 year old can do it. Stop posting, just go do it. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?????? Just go "instantiate a tree flexion"!! Got it?

 

[Ecomike]

Why? What exactly do you think a troll is?
By asking questions?
By being confused with blatantly conflicting directions?
By being confused by by someone saying to "rock a wheel" instead of speaking English and saying "Turn the steering wheel"?
Because it makes zero sense to turn the steering wheel to test a trackbar?

I had to write a service manual for the US Navy once for some hardware I invented and built. The reviews of the first 20 drafts remind me of this debate, LMAO!!!

 

[Ecomike]

In fact, I still do not understand his "rock the wheel" directions because I don't even see what the steering wheel has to do with the trackbar.
With rockclimbers explanation (about the only useful post in this 3 page thread), the trackbar connects the axle and the body.
So, what does the steering have to do with this?
The only thing that makes sense is to push the BODY laterally, NOT the wheels or steering wheel, and see what sort of play is in the trackbar ball joint.
Does anyone here actually understand what he was trying to test by "rocking the wheel"?

Well I am NOT a front end steering-suspension expert, what I have learned to do is all of the above, one person moves the steering wheel back and forth, and the other is under the jeep watching. Then the person under the vehicle starts pushing and pulling ALL the different suspension and steering parts in every direction possible in search of anything that is loose enough to move buy hand (using blue collar elbow greased force vectors in infinite directions LOL).

Long story short, if you find a bushing joint or ball joint of any kind that moves easily or has some slop in its movement, it is time to replace it. Also look for visibly damaged bushings, torn rubber boots on the ball joints, and severely rusted bolts/nuts to replace. Lastly, jacking one side (front) of the jeep up at a time, and getting one tire off the ground, and wiggling the tire side to side (front and rear), and in and out (top and bottom) to see if there is too much play in the steering parts can be useful in finding loose, bad joints. What little I know I learned hands on, probably the same for many others here.

 

[Ecomike]

I am done with explaining anything to you. Can't tell if trolling or...


I need to find 3-4 people like you, become their mechanic, and never answer to a boss again. You supplied your own parts and still paid $750 for 3 hours work? I am speechless.

Oh, and JFGI.

Kastein, He said it was $750 "TOTAL cost", so that number included all the parts.

 

[kastein]

Yeah, then he said he brought his own parts to the shop, which made me think he paid that much in labor.

Either way, that's like $300 in parts and not much work. It's too bad I loathe NYC or I'd go down there just to fix people's cars for them, that's damn good money.

 

[Ecomike]

"Rock the wheel" refers to turning the steering wheel back and forth, left to right, right to left, etc. This can be done with the engine off and the steering column unlocked or with the engine running. I prefer to have the engine running, makes it easier. So have someone "rock the wheel" while you are on the ground and looking at the steering linkage and track bar. Look for any visual slop while the steering wheel is being turned back and forth. You can also hold onto the end of the component and feel for any slop as the wheel is being turned back and forth. Hope this helps and Merry Christmas! You can also search for Stu-offroad.com for good tech info.

I would add that you can do that with the wheels off the ground too, and sometimes see other slop you don't see with the tires on the pavement. And holding the part like you said, you can sometimes feel what you don't see, like a pop as somethings moves suddenly, but does not move smoothly. It is not something that can be taught easily in a manual. More of a hands on thing, like welding? You read about welding, and get the science and start up settings and materials, but it takes practice, like painting to get proficient at it. How do you describe how to fell when a ball joint is too loose?

 

[Ecomike]

Yeah, then he said he brought his own parts to the shop, which made me think he paid that much in labor.

Either way, that's like $300 in parts and not much work. It's too bad I loathe NYC or I'd go down there just to fix people's cars for them, that's damn good money.

LOL, don't forget to add in the RUST factor repair cost!!!! But yes, $100 plus an hour rates hurt after about 30 minutes, when I think of the parts I could have bought, LOL!!!!

 

[WB9YZU]

Ron,

Can you explain what you mean by "rock the wheel"?

Unlock the steering wheel and rotate it about 1" left, then 1" right.
When I have relatives visit, I will ask them to "rock the wheel" if you explain what that means.

OK

If the rod moves independent of either the axle or the body, the bushing or the ball is shot.


Are you basically saying that the track bar should not move at all while "rocking the wheel"?

Correct. Just as the Control Arms locates the axle front to back in respect the body, the Trackbar (also known as a "Panhard Bar", or "Panhard Rod" keeps the axle located side to side in respect to the body.
You don't need the Jeep running, but the steering needs to be unlocked.

If you rock the steering wheel, there should be no play(movement)where the ball joint or bushing is attached. If you see the two parts moving separately, that tends to be an issue.

As a general rule, there should be no play in any steering component.

You are going to have to get some sort of manual, whether it's a Haynes, Chiltons, Motors, or the Factory Service Manual.

Early repairs are just part swap for most folks. Then they get into the "why" something works, or doesn't later. If you have a mechanically proficient family member or friend, I recommend asking them if they could spend time with you helping you work on your Jeep. Often doing is the best way of learning.

Feel free to post up with questions

<<>>

We get all sorts of folks here asking all sorts of questions. To some of us who have been doing this since we were kids, it may seem elementary, but remember, we were ALL at this stage once.

-Ron

 

[Original_MudButt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjeeper
Ron,

Can you explain what you mean by "rock the wheel"?

Unlock the steering wheel and rotate it about 1" left, then 1" right.
When I have relatives visit, I will ask them to "rock the wheel" if you explain what that means

Don't forget, you will have to explain in 500 words or more, in detail, step-by-step how to "unlock the steering wheel"....

Oh, and don't forget... If there is a steering component that is really "out of whack" (technical term), it may require more than 1" left then 1" right, so you may want to do a separate write up about rotating the steering wheel 2" left then 2" right as well ( don't forget 500 words or more, in detail, step-by-step, how to)....

Remember, he's not "in the trade", and doesn't have a whole shop full of "specialty tools"...

 

[kastein]

The most important specialty tool involved is a brain.

I don't think any amount of words will make up for the lack of one of those.

 

[WB9YZU]

We get all sorts of folks here asking all sorts of questions. To some of us who have been doing this since we were kids, it may seem elementary, but remember, we were ALL at this stage once.

-Ron

I think we should relax a bit.

Go have some eggnog

Merry Christmas folks

-Ron

 

[Wiser]

Click here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLMijeeOhM
This is what they mean side to side. Put your key in the accessory position so it unlocks the steering wheel. Have someone do this motion while you crawl under the front and look for parts that have a lot of play. A dead give away is popping sounds which is an indicator something's worn or loose. Good luck

 

[IslanderOffRoad]

Why? What exactly do you think a troll is?
By asking questions?
By being confused with blatantly conflicting directions?
By being confused by by someone saying to "rock a wheel" instead of speaking English and saying "Turn the steering wheel"?
Because it makes zero sense to turn the steering wheel to test a trackbar?

Because you spend so much time arguing with everyone that I think you enjoy it. Your sole purpose here seems to not be repairing your jeep but rather to see how long you can get a thread to go before it gets locked.

You're right the steering wheel and the trackbar have nothing to do with each other. I mean you're the expert here.

 

[souske]

You are going to have to get some sort of manual, whether it's a Haynes, Chiltons, Motors, or the Factory Service Manual.

Early repairs are just part swap for most folks. Then they get into the "why" something works, or doesn't later. If you have a mechanically proficient family member or friend, I recommend asking them if they could spend time with you helping you work on your Jeep. Often doing is the best way of learning.

Feel free to post up with questions

<<>>

We get all sorts of folks here asking all sorts of questions. To some of us who have been doing this since we were kids, it may seem elementary, but remember, we were ALL at this stage once.

-Ron

The difference is that when i was just learning, and found someone with more experience to help me learn, i was grateful, rather than being an arrogant ass about it.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Actually, you know what is truly arrogant? Having the luxury of being taught in person while YOU learned, and then being bashing someone who has no option but to to attempt learning this sh/t blind on a ****ing computer.
That's as WEAK as it gets. Reading a bunch of poorly written sentences about fixing cars is a lot harder than it looks, unless you already know what you're doing.

Arrogant? I am asking people to explain what they mean. There is no one in my area who works on cars, otherwise, I would not be spending DAYS trying to learn something on a forum that can be explained in 30 seconds in person. Going forward, it might be smarter to just pay a mechanic $100/hr to answer my questions. Forums are basically impossible unless you already know what you're doing.

 

[kastein]

You know what?

Most of this can be answered in 30 seconds by googling it too, if you have the most important tool in a mechanics toolbox.

I've taught people a lot of stuff on here. Most of them had brains.

No sweat off my back, go pay a mechanic to tell you things or something.

 

[#S194]

These threads all seem to end up the same way. I don't know whether to shake my head or laugh. In all seriousness bimmerjeeper, these guys are all trying to help you out. The've helped me in the past too. You just need to step back and read what they're telling you and if you don't understand, ask again for clarification. Or just google it!

 

[in4aride]

I needed a good giggle..

Thanks guys

 

[Ecomike]

Don't forget, you will have to explain in 500 words or more, in detail, step-by-step how to "unlock the steering wheel"....

Oh, and don't forget... If there is a steering component that is really "out of whack" (technical term), it may require more than 1" left then 1" right, so you may want to do a separate write up about rotating the steering wheel 2" left then 2" right as well ( don't forget 500 words or more, in detail, step-by-step, how to)....

Remember, he's not "in the trade", and doesn't have a whole shop full of "specialty tools"...

LOL, there was a funny article in Car and Driver back in the 1970s that compared German, Japanese and US car owners manuals. It said the US manuals spent 20 pages describing how to unlock the car door, open the door, get in the car, close the door, install the key in the ignition switch, turn the key .... And if the car did not start CALL YOUR DEALER!!!! LOL

The German manual said not to drive the Porsche over 100 MPH (in KMH) on iced roads at an incline of over 45% (LMAO)

The Japanese manual basically gave a list of thinks not to do unless you wanted to have GODZILLA stomp on your Toyota!!!!!:shiver: