Front Suspension Basics 101

[Demonoid369]

I'm going to put this out here to prove a point and to show there is no reason you can not just take initiative and figure stuff out. I demonoid369 have autism/aspergers. Now if you don't know what that is, it is a learning disability. Means that a lot of crap out there I have a real heard time learning and understanding. But you know how I learned and figured stuff out? By taking INITIATIVE! And telling myself that I will over come and learn this stuff on my own and I will connect the dots and use common sense. For god almighty, just get the heck out there and start trying, if your worries about wasting time trying to figure out what "rock the wheel" means and think that it's idiotic to just sink around and learn, this hobby/style/vehicle is not for you,

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Look, please stop wasting my time with your useless replies.
You've made several posts, and done nothing but say what a motivated brilliant automotive genius you are.
Well, great, I am very happy for you.
"JUST DO IT, DUDE" is not a valid answer, bordering on moronic.
Should I just be like Rocky and just start punching sides of beef and doing upside down situps, and just start doing random shit to the car?
No, I have a question I am trying to get clarified.
Your advice is not how I do things.

I have a very simple question, if you know it, then answer it.
Otherwise, please go find other people to annoy. Thank you.

Does anyone here know what "rock the wheel" means?
Demonoid369 has just said that it does NOT mean to push the car forward and backward.
Well, there is no way to only push 1 wheel as they will not budge like that, so I am ruling that out.
(Plus, it he did mean ONLY to push one wheel forward and backwards, it would be much easier to just push the entire car from the rear bumper, rather than to try to push just one wheel forward and backward with an awkward grip and leverage.)
This only leaves pushing the wheel IN towards the engine, and I am fairly certain there is no lateral play like this with my new hubs.
So, this brings this mystery back to square one.


Also, can anyone clarify what behavior I am looking for at the trackbar ball joint while the wheel is rocked?

 

[souske]

Its pretty bad when the autistic kid with aspergers calls you slow, and says you have no social skills....

 

[Demonoid369]

Look, please stop wasting my time with your useless replies.
You've made several posts, and done nothing but say what a motivated brilliant automotive genius you are.
Well, great, I am very happy for you.
Should I just be like Rocky and just start doing random shit to the car?
No, I have a question I am trying to get clarified.
"JUST DO IT, DUDE".
Umm, ok. You sound like more of an idiot than I, quite frankly. *

I have a very simple question, if you know it, then answer it.
Otherwise, please go find other people to annoy. Thank you.

Does anyone here know what "rock the wheel" means?
And exactly what behavior I am looking for at the trackbar ball joint?

Side to side, back and forth? One wheel only? Steering wheel?

Where did I say I was a "motivated brilliant automotive genius"??? I am far from that lol the only difference between you and I is that I'm actually trying to take initiative with what I have and learn. Instead of asking for all the answers on a silver platter, you should be out there trying different things and seeing if it helps or of its even relative to it. Again I have you a legitimate answer as to "rock the wheel" you have TWO choices to try and figure out. Now using common sense and plus searching and reading and then some more reading, it would be easy to see he and like many others, mean the wheel on the axle, now if you ask which direction, you should just quit now...... Seriously what is wrong with you? Seriously all you need to do is read and search and keep searching past the first page. If you don't have the common sense to realize this, then as others have said, sell the jeep. Because this stuff is about taking initiative and getting down and dirty and learning first hand. None of this hand me every/tell me everything/do everything for me crap. If your willing to to fix something, you better be willing to do the tedious work of search and reading and understanding things.

 

[rockclimber]

is this for real?

by rock the wheel, he means turn the steering wheel back and forth. you should do this with the engine running.

if the trackbar moves at all, it is likely that the rod end (unibody side) is worn out. just from the picture, it looks like you should replace it.

the purpose of the trackbar is to control the axle laterally, aka it should not allow the axle or the jeep to move laterally independent of one another. (if the axle move left, the jeep should move left, if it moves right, the jeep should move right) just like the control arms control the axle's movement front-back.

go to your nearest auto parts store and buy the haynes and chiltons repair manuals for your year jeep (they usually come in a range of years) the owners manual is generally useless.

search and read. most of your questions have been asked in OEM tech and Mod Tech over and over. if the forum search is not working, type your search into google with the word after it.

 

[Demonoid369]

Got a better idea, since you obviously have Internet, not only should you read and search but go on to YouTube and search, there are plenty and I mean plenty of videos showing just about everything you need to know, even down to replacing the bulb in your Dom light. Watch some videos for a few hours and get back to us

 

[bimmerjeeper]

is this for real?

by rock the wheel, he means turn the steering wheel back and forth. you should do this with the engine running.

.

Ok, but that's not at all what he said. He explicitly said the car is turned off.
But, in every car I've owned, the steering wheel is LOCKED when the car is off. (Is this not the case with XJ?)
Also, why on earth would have say "rock the wheel" instead of simply "turn the steering wheel", if that's what he meant?

Turn the Jeep off.
Lay under the Jeep and have someone rock the wheel.
If the rod moves independent of either the axle or the body, the bushing or the ball is shot.

Yea, it's real. This is the problem with trying to learn from a forum (instead of doing this for a job, or having a friend just show you)
You'll get blatantly differing opinions that are sometimes exact opposites of each other.
If you don't already know what you're doing, you're screwed. Unfortunately, this is my only option, and I am working alone, so I can't just try random stuff.

 

[souske]

Try it both ways, and teach yourself.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

the purpose of the trackbar is to control the axle laterally, aka it should not allow the axle or the jeep to move laterally independent of one another. (if the axle move left, the jeep should move left, if it moves right, the jeep should move right) just like the control arms control the axle's movement front-back..

Thanks for explaining this. The point of a suspension is to allow the axle to not be connected directly to the body. Without a trackbar, the axle would side out from under the car when it had any lateral force from hitting a rock or hole, like when you see videos of people ripping out their axle from a towing chain or something. Instead, the wheel pushes the axle, the axle pushes the trackbar, the trackbar pushes the body, and everything stays lined up. Is that the idea?

Also, the photo of the trackbar now makes more sense, instead of just looking like spaghetti.
One side of the trackbar is connected to the axle, the other side is ball jointed to the body itself.
If either wheel gets pushed laterally, the axle gets pushed, taking the trackbar and therefore, entire body, along with it.

 

[Demonoid369]

Try it both ways, and teach yourself.

This is the best advice, this is what almost every person has said, just go out and do it, get your hands dirty and learn, your never going to truly learn until you just do it. Its like kids, you can read and ask questions all you want. But none of that is going to do any good till you go out and do it. You think there's a Manuel for what type of baby screams mean? No, all you can do is do all that you read and search(burping,feeding, change diaper, etc...)

 

[IslanderOffRoad]

You're doing a pretty solid job proving that guy who said you were a troll right

 

[Original_MudButt]

Its pretty bad when the autistic kid with aspergers calls you slow....

^^^ This...


Seriously, you can't figure out how to turn the engine off without locking the steering column?? :banghead:

I had to deal with kids like you all through high school. While I was outside getting dirty teaching myself how to keep my POS $600 automobile running, they would run to me at the drop of a hat because they couldn't even put air in their tires....

Step 1) Turn off the computer.
Step 2) Go to nearest auto parts store and buy a repair manual specific to your vehicle.
Step 3) Sit down with said manual near vehicle and leaf through it.
Step 4) Try to learn something.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

This is the best advice, this is what almost every person has said, just go out and do it, get your hands dirty and learn, your never going to truly learn until you just do it. Its like kids, you can read and ask questions all you want. But none of that is going to do any good till you go out and do it. You think there's a Manuel for what type of baby screams mean? No, all you can do is do all that you read and search(burping,feeding, change diaper, etc...)

Surely, you can't be this stupid. Again, go out and do what, exactly? Do I just go "rock the wheel" when I don't even know what he even means?

Ok, let me try to demonstrate how asinine your repetitive "advice" is. Do me a favor, please go out and "instantiate a tree flexion" right now. Then come back and tell me how long it took you. What you don't know what it means? ARE YOU AN IDIOT? JUST DO IT, DUDE! JUST TRY TILL SOMETHING WORKS. GO! At least go find a tree! That's the first step. Worry about the rest later. Look, just "instantiate a tree flexion"! Stop asking questions!! It's so simple that a 17 year old can do it. Stop posting, just go do it. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?????? Just go "instantiate a tree flexion"!! Got it?

 

[bimmerjeeper]

You're doing a pretty solid job proving that guy who said you were a troll right

Why? What exactly do you think a troll is?
By asking questions?
By being confused with blatantly conflicting directions?
By being confused by by someone saying to "rock a wheel" instead of speaking English and saying "Turn the steering wheel"?
Because it makes zero sense to turn the steering wheel to test a trackbar?

 

[bimmerjeeper]

In fact, I still do not understand his "rock the wheel" directions because I don't even see what the steering wheel has to do with the trackbar.
With rockclimbers explanation (about the only useful post in this 3 page thread), the trackbar connects the axle and the body.
So, what does the steering have to do with this?
The only thing that makes sense is to push the BODY laterally, NOT the wheels or steering wheel, and see what sort of play is in the trackbar ball joint.
Does anyone here actually understand what he was trying to test by "rocking the wheel"?

 

[Original_MudButt]

Because it makes zero sense to turn the steering wheel to test a trackbar?

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

 

[kastein]

What is an axle shaft? Can you point out what photo you're referring to? I am pretty sure the only thing ever replaced on this XJ was the fluids. The PO didn't invest a single penny into this thing.

What ridiculous bill? I paid 3 hours labor to get my hubs, u-joints, rotors/pads, muffler, and cat installed. I also supplied my own parts. $750 was the total cost of all of that. That is almost the deal of the century. You'd pay twice that at any other mechanic, and pay $3000 at the dealer.

I am done with explaining anything to you. Can't tell if trolling or...


I need to find 3-4 people like you, become their mechanic, and never answer to a boss again. You supplied your own parts and still paid $750 for 3 hours work? I am speechless.

Oh, and JFGI.

 

[Al S]

"Rock the wheel" refers to turning the steering wheel back and forth, left to right, right to left, etc. This can be done with the engine off and the steering column unlocked or with the engine running. I prefer to have the engine running, makes it easier. So have someone "rock the wheel" while you are on the ground and looking at the steering linkage and track bar. Look for any visual slop while the steering wheel is being turned back and forth. You can also hold onto the end of the component and feel for any slop as the wheel is being turned back and forth. Hope this helps and Merry Christmas! You can also search for Stu-offroad.com for good tech info.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

I need to find 3-4 people like you, become their mechanic, and never answer to a boss again. You supplied your own parts and still paid $750 for 3 hours work? I am speechless. .

No, I said that was the total cost. That means I paid $750 for all the parts and the 3 hours of labor. A great deal in an area where you'll pay $250 to get a new serpentine belt installed, or $450 to get an O2 sensor replaced.

But yea, tradesmen around here do very well. The one mechanic I know has 30 used cars for sale at any given time that he flips on the side (They average $10k a pop, so that's $300,000 of cash he's playing around with. Who knows where else his money is invested) He does owns a home in one of the most exclusive parts of the county and his kids go to to one of the best and wealthiest high schools in the state. Based on how busy his shop always is, it wouldn't surprise me if he takes home $10,000 a week. With multiple bays, he could be grossing $7k to $10k a day before overhead, once you adjust for shop hours vs. actual time. The best part is, he's honest and has reasonable rates!

 

[Demonoid369]

Surely, you can't be this stupid. Again, go out and do what, exactly? Do I just go "rock the wheel" when I don't even know what he even means?

Ok, let me try to demonstrate how asinine your repetitive "advice" is. Do me a favor, please go out and "instantiate a tree flexion" right now. Then come back and tell me how long it took you. What you don't know what it means? ARE YOU AN IDIOT? JUST DO IT, DUDE! JUST TRY TILL SOMETHING WORKS. GO! At least go find a tree! That's the first step. Worry about the rest later. Look, just "instantiate a tree flexion"! Stop asking questions!! It's so simple that a 17 year old can do it. Stop posting, just go do it. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?????? Just go "instantiate a tree flexion"!! Got it?

As far as I can read its not talking a out a real tree but a computer made tree? Like a nodetree? An I close? If anything I just showed I put in more effort than you've done this entire thread lol