Front 44 build - random questions

[JeepFreak21]

I found a lot of great info out there, but a few things are still a little hazy....

First, to prove I've searched D) and for future reference, I'll link to some of the posts I've found most useful:
Mr. N's Dana 44 articals
TOTW: How to improve a Dana 44 front end
Front Dana 44 info
Dana 44 Tech
Custom Width HP44 Build and Tech

Now, my first question...
I'm planning on starting with a '73-'75 1/2 ton Ford HP44. I'm thinking that I'll go with after market knuckles like the PartsMike ones. I want to convert it to 8 lug, run the large lockouts that came on the 3/4 ton Ford, and the Chevy brakes. So... what parts do I need?
I know the spindle determines the stub shafts. I assume the spindle also determines the hubs. What is needed to run the Chevy brakes?

My second question is really just a request for some up-to-date feedback....
Who's still running the 19 spline outers? How are they working out for you? Why did you stick w/ the 19 spliners?

Last but not least...
Searching suggested that it was pretty much agreed upon that running 33 or 35 spline inners just shifted the weak link to the pinion... is that still the consensus? Have any of you cryo'd your ring and pinion? Then what becomes the fuse?

Thanks,
Billy

 

[alteredxj]

don't you love how you have to prove you tried to search on this site

 

[ktm racer 419]

whoa....whoa.....whoa.

you can do shaft diametr upgrades on front 44's now?

and what would be so beneficial to running that when your stuck with the same size u-joint and 19 spline outers?

 

[Kittrell]

whoa....whoa.....whoa.

you can do shaft diametr upgrades on front 44's now?

and what would be so beneficial to running that when your stuck with the same size u-joint and 19 spline outers?

You can't do 33, off the the shelf at least. But you can do 35.

 

[redneck23ms]

if you are that worried about breaking the 44 then try to find a 60 especially since you are wanting it 8 lug

 

[RyanM]

don't you love how you have to prove you tried to search on this site

HA! Why post here then? We love when newbs like you ask "What size tires on 3" lift"

Billy, PM Lincoln, he should know exactly what you need, I think I know but don't want to POBI

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

the cost of building a 44 right and building a 60 right are far too close to warrant the worry of breaking a 44 IMO.

 

[EvanH]

HA! Why post here then? We love when newbs like you ask "What size tires on 3" lift"

Billy, PM Lincoln, he should know exactly what you need, I think I know but don't want to POBI

So what size tires can fit on a 3" lift?

 

[TNT]

So what size tires can fit on a 3" lift?

36" tires. A Sawzall and welder are your friend.

 

[JeepFreak21]

don't you love how you have to prove you tried to search on this site

I do because I'm such a search whore. XJ Ranger calls me on it every time I don't search!
Billy

 

[JeepFreak21]

the cost of building a 44 right and building a 60 right are far too close to warrant the worry of breaking a 44 IMO.

That's what I was thinking originally... we'll compare receipts when I'm done.
Billy

 

[JeepFreak21]

and what would be so beneficial to running that when your stuck with the same size u-joint and 19 spline outers?

Nothing, but you could run CTMs, 60 outters, upgraded D44 stubs, etc
Billy

 

[TNT]

whoa....whoa.....whoa.

you can do shaft diameter upgrades on front 44's now?

and what would be so beneficial to running that when your stuck with the same size u-joint and 19 spline outers?

When you chose the right HP D44 you get the following...
Larger ring gear, better bigger brakes, stronger housing, thicker axle tubes, lockouts, stronger wheel bolt pattern, lower available gear ratios, stronger carrier, stronger ball joints, seviceable wheel bearings, better steering options and more.

A HP D44 with a set of Superior alloy axles and CTM joints make the lockouts become the weak link. There is no need for larger 33 or 35 spline inner shafts unless you can upgrade to larger outer shafts.

Using CTM's and alloys on a HP D30 make the ring and pinion the weak link....

You could upgrade the carrier to a 35 spline unit and run D60 kingpin outers with 35 spline outer shafts..... No need for CTM or alloy shafts, just use stock D60 parts.... Anything stronger will make the HP D44's ring and pinion the weak link.

A front HP D60 is a heavy axle that requires unibody reinforcement to deal with the wieght.

It's your choice on what to do. It depends on your budget, skills, terrain you wheel and your right foot.

Everybody seems so quick to say a HP D44 isn't worth the effort... Ask them how much effort it is to use a HP D60 that they installed instead....

 

[Lincoln]

Running 35 splines on a 44 would shift the week link to the pinion, but if you are running 1310 u-joints those will (should) go first.

To run the big Ford stuff you have to run a factory ford knuckle. The plus is most are already flat tops. You have to run the Ford brakes and your only option for aftermarket knuckles are Dedenbear ( http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA44.php ).

It has been years since I've had one apart and I really didn't pay attention much then. I have always thought they were 27 splines but I always end up with conflicting spline and stub lengths.

Yukon does list a 4340 stub. It is listed as a 10.6" stub with 27 splines and the app is a 77-78 F250.

Where it gets confusing is they also list for replacement shafts:
10.66" 19 spline
7.94 27 spline (I really think this is an explorer/bronco II stub miss labeled as a D44 stub)
11.50" 30 spline (I'm positive this is a Ford ball joint 60 stub, 88? up)
11.40" 30 spline (I'm positive this is a Ford king pin 60 stub)
10.66" 30 spline (I think this is the replacement and I believe the spline count is incorrect)

Without having a hub or stub in hand it will be hard to tell.

Another issue are the lockouts. 15 years ago you could only get junkyard parts. That may have changed now, I only looked on Warn's and Superwinches site and neither of them listed the external lockouts for the Ford. 25 years ago they were available but no one ran them long because they were junk.

My 19 spline's have been holding up. If you plan to thrash I bet they would fatigue and break occasionally.

If you are planning on buying knuckles anyway I would just put some 60 knuckles on a 44, run 35 spline stuff, and call it good. Rough figures on what I gathered is 35 spline spicer stuff (including the axle joint) is about 20% to 30% stronger than chromo 44 stuff. For the price of aftermarket shafts I wouldn't bother running the spicers but I would (am going to) run the spicer u-joints.

Bottom like is if you have it already and chromo's are available, I would probably run it. If you have to gather parts and put it together, just source some 60 stuff, put it on your 44 and move on.

If you are stuck on the 44 I would explore to other options:
1. Have some 30 stubs made, bore the spindle if needed, and run whatever flavor of hub and rotor you want.
2. Run CJ stuff but that probably removes your ability to run 8-lug stuff. I believe the flange on the Warn conversion kit is too small to redrill.

 

[xcm]

don't you love how you have to prove you tried to search on this site

those links make this thread 900% more educational....
people searching for d44 front info now have a convienient treasure trove of info
i know, if they really needed the knowledge they should search also
but im more of a casual info sponge, and i appreciate the 10 minutes he spent compiling links
good job!

 

[JeepFreak21]

It has been years since I've had one apart and I really didn't pay attention much then. I have always thought they were 27 splines but I always end up with conflicting spline and stub lengths.

Yukon does list a 4340 stub. It is listed as a 10.6" stub with 27 splines and the app is a 77-78 F250.

Where it gets confusing is they also list for replacement shafts:
10.66" 19 spline
7.94 27 spline (I really think this is an explorer/bronco II stub miss labeled as a D44 stub)
11.50" 30 spline (I'm positive this is a Ford ball joint 60 stub, 88? up)
11.40" 30 spline (I'm positive this is a Ford king pin 60 stub)
10.66" 30 spline (I think this is the replacement and I believe the spline count is incorrect)

Without having a hub or stub in hand it will be hard to tell.

Another issue are the lockouts. 15 years ago you could only get junkyard parts. That may have changed now, I only looked on Warn's and Superwinches site and neither of them listed the external lockouts for the Ford. 25 years ago they were available but no one ran them long because they were junk.

Lucky for me, I happen to have a set of the large Ford hubs and they are definitely 19 spline. When I replaced them with a pair of Warn Premium hubs on the last 44, I didn't have any trouble finding the right ones.
Thanks for the help,
Billy

 

[JeepFreak21]

Wow, so the Ford brakes are about 3 times more than the Chevy...

What about all Chevy stuff from the C's out. How are the lock-outs that match the Chevy large bearing spindle? I'll be running Warn lock-outs anyway. Any issues w/ this if 8 lug is the goal?

Thanks,
Billy

 

[TNT]

Wow, so the Ford brakes are about 3 times more than the Chevy...

What about all Chevy stuff from the C's out. How are the lock-outs that match the Chevy large bearing spindle? I'll be running Warn lock-outs anyway. Any issues w/ this if 8 lug is the goal?

Thanks,
Billy

The Chevy parts work great. Find a complete 8 lug 10 bolt Chevy axle with flat top knuckles and take the parts from it. They are cheap because nobody want a 3/4ton 10 bolt. The outers are standard D44 parts. The brake prices are cheap. You will also need the chevy outer axle stubs.

 

[JeepFreak21]

The Chevy parts work great. Find a complete 8 lug 10 bolt Chevy axle with flat top knuckles and take the parts from it. They are cheap because nobody want a 3/4ton 10 bolt. The outers are standard D44 parts. The brake prices are cheap. You will also need the chevy outer axle stubs.

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming it!
Billy

 

[XJ_ranger]

Billy...

stop fawking around with JY parts!

and SEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!