Front 44 build - random questions

JeepFreak21 said:
I found a lot of great info out there, but a few things are still a little hazy....

First, to prove I've searched (:D) and for future reference, I'll link to some of the posts I've found most useful:
Mr. N's Dana 44 articals
TOTW: How to improve a Dana 44 front end
Front Dana 44 info
Dana 44 Tech
Custom Width HP44 Build and Tech

Now, my first question...
I'm planning on starting with a '73-'75 1/2 ton Ford HP44. I'm thinking that I'll go with after market knuckles like the PartsMike ones. I want to convert it to 8 lug, run the large lockouts that came on the 3/4 ton Ford, and the Chevy brakes. So... what parts do I need?
I know the spindle determines the stub shafts. I assume the spindle also determines the hubs. What is needed to run the Chevy brakes?

My second question is really just a request for some up-to-date feedback....
Who's still running the 19 spline outers? How are they working out for you? Why did you stick w/ the 19 spliners?

Last but not least...
Searching suggested that it was pretty much agreed upon that running 33 or 35 spline inners just shifted the weak link to the pinion... is that still the consensus? Have any of you cryo'd your ring and pinion? Then what becomes the fuse?

Thanks,
Billy
Click to expand...

I built a 1978 HP D44 from a Ford F250. It has the 1/2" tubes, 8 lug, and full width. I'm running Yukon 4340 chromo shafts with stock spline count (30/19). Also running Yukon super u-joints, Yukon 5.13 gears, and an ARB. I figure my Warn premium lockouts are my weakest point and should break first. Lockouts are relatively cheap and easy to carry and change on the trail. I don't carry spare shafts, although I probably should. I'm running 37 inch MTR's, I only have 3 wheeling trips since swapping the axles to D44/D60, so far so good. I went with all Ford stock parts including flat top knuckles, rotors and the large dual piston calipers. I did this mostly because my axle came with nearly all the parts and I didn't have to buy any Chevy parts. Being all stock F250 parts made it easy to order shafts and such. I did a custom high steer inverted T for steering. It all works well for me.

As for those who say building a HP44 isn't much cheaper than building a HP D60, I have to disagree. Every single D60 part is significantly more expensive than the equivalant D44 part, starting with the rebuildable junk yard axle itself. Make a parts list for both, source and price all the parts and compare.

My axle build/swap thread, with too many pictures......
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397243
 
I watched 4 cromo stub shafts (27 spline) and 2 stock 30 spline inners break this past weekend without the Warn Premium lock-outs breaking.
 
I'm still running a HPD44 front axle with waggy length (combination of "late model" and "early model") Warn shafts. The outers are stock 19 spline. I tied them together with Longfield Bushinged, cryoed, 760's. I've run BOTW a couple times with this combination and have not broken any front end parts. I'm pretty cautious though and normally run midwest trails and roads which put less strain on parts. However, the midwest trails and roads do put MORE wear on parts due to muddy, wet, salty conditions the westerners don't normally have to deal with. When I ran stock shafts and stock 760's I would regularly crush needle bearings leading to u-joint failure. I think I only broke one set of shafts, but went through many u-joints. I installed bushings in a set of 760's once, welded the caps to the axles permanently and ran those axles for awhile with no problems. Eventually I purchased the Warn shafts and the Longfield greasable 760's and have been running them ever since. I think the bushings are showing some wear, but they still transmit power between the inner and outer shaft without fail! I carry the welded bushed 760'd shafts as spares. BTW, I am running 35" tires and 4.88 gears. OH, just thinking of associated parts that have failed, I've replaced the Chevy HD drag link ends multiple times and MOOG ball joints on this axle multiple times as well since building it. All these joints developed slop from wear. On another front, I am building an MJ and have another HPD44 with D60 inner c's, 35 spline shafts and D60 u-joints. I'll be using the stock 30 spline outers and 30 spline lockouts till they prove to be problematic. The inner shafts are a stock Ford 35 spline D60 short side and a cut down and resplined Ford 35 spline D60 long side shaft. Jeff
 
bobnoxious said:
I watched 4 cromo stub shafts (27 spline) and 2 stock 30 spline inners break this past weekend without the Warn Premium lock-outs breaking.
Click to expand...

Wow. What brand were the chromo shafts? I would much rather be breaking hubs than shafts! I'm going to look into the Warn "Fusible Hub" dealio, but I'll probably start a new thread for it because search didn't turn up squat... here or PBB.
Billy
 
JeepFreak21 said:
Wow. What brand were the chromo shafts? I would much rather be breaking hubs than shafts! I'm going to look into the Warn "Fusible Hub" dealio, but I'll probably start a new thread for it because search didn't turn up squat... here or PBB.
Billy
Click to expand...

Yukon.
 
JeepFreak21 said:
Wow. What brand were the chromo shafts? I would much rather be breaking hubs than shafts! I'm going to look into the Warn "Fusible Hub" dealio, but I'll probably start a new thread for it because search didn't turn up squat... here or PBB.
Billy
Click to expand...

They typically break way too early. Also if you are running a detroit it's almost a guarantee that when the fuse goes so will the locker.

The D44 setup of 30 inners, 19 outters, and $$$ u-joint of your choice seems to be a pretty balanced setup. I can't recall seeing an inner break, but Goat has lost a CTM or two, and a few stubs. With his 35's and super low gearing Jes has broke a couple of hubs only. It appears his broke from the dial being partially turned by rubbing rocks. I haven't broken anything in the front of mine but I have knocked a couple of hubs off on rocks. I do carry complete spares and I still think chromo spares are required if you are running over 35's and big rocks.

When I get my 60 together I won't be packing spares. That saves around $700 on the build right up front. Running hard trails (I'm assuming that is the plan) spicer shafts won't get you far or last long unless they are 35 spline.
 
a stcck 60 is leaps and bounds stronger than a build 44. look at the specs out there.

cheaper an smarter and can be build to be the best.

go 60 or go home.
 
a stock ford kingpin or balljoint(cheaper) d60 will be much cheapers than a d44 with ctms alloys etc. and be stronger.

look at that bullshit longfield posted in Jp, stock d60 stub stronger than a 4340 d44 stub. by 3k lbs of torque.


JeepFreak21 said:
Cheaper????? :confused:
Billy
Click to expand...
 
JeepFreak21 said:
Cheaper????? :confused:
Billy
Click to expand...

Don't worry he doesn't know. :D

If you figure in the price of spares I would say you could build it for an equivalent price and if you already know you're going to be pushing the 44 it's a much better place to start. I wouldn't walk away from a 44 with 60 outters either.

I carry a spare spindle, complete set shafts with good joints, and a spare set of lockouts. That's getting close to $900 in spare parts. A bunch of us built our 44's with 35's in mind. A built 44 works excellent for that, but 37's are kind of a grey area, anything bigger is like running a D30 with 37's. If you are jumping into 37's and don't already have an axle I would strongly suggest going bigger than the D44 knuckles. The reliability and piece of mind will pay for itself. If you don't want to pay for that I would suggest staying smaller until you do, big tires break shit.
 
Just a thought. If money is a big concern think about how much you really need lockouts.

You could build an axle with Tera knuckles that use the Dodge unit bearings. You could use their standard (I believe dutchman) stubs, I would probably just use a 4340 inner for the price difference, and standard 60 u-joints. I'm having real mental issues on just how strong those stubs are. They are only 33 spline but if you think real hard you will realize that the splines only carry part of the load unlike a normal 60 shaft. Like on a stock D30 they tighten up again the back side of the bearing providing a friction fit also. The weak point just becomes the yoke.

The knuckles are too bad of price and they are already tapped for high steer arms. The Tera arms are only $60/each and the dodge unit bearings are only around $150. It gets you your 8 lug and it's also a good deal stronger than the built 44. If strength becomes an issue (unless your tires get close the 40" range I don't think it will) you could then invest in some of Jacks stubs and joints.

You could build this on a 44 housing, or a 60 housing of your choice. I would suggest the hi-9 but the cost is not very appealing. I believe mad4wd is still selling a 60 center for $500 and they would even put tubes and the knuckles on it for you. There are several good options out there.
 
xDUMPTRUCKx said:
a stock ford kingpin or balljoint(cheaper) d60 will be much cheapers than a d44 with ctms alloys etc. and be stronger.

look at that bullshit longfield posted in Jp, stock d60 stub stronger than a 4340 d44 stub. by 3k lbs of torque.
Click to expand...

Front HP D44 junkyard axle $250
ARB 30 spline locker $689
4340 alloy inner & outer shafts $490
Warn Premium Hubs $ 90
CTM U-joints $499
Ring & pinion w / install kit $229
Ball joints $ 80

total - $2,327.00

Front HP D60 junkyard axle $1100
ARB 35 spline locker $ 850
Alloy USA shafts $880 stock shafts $ 0
CTM U-joints $ 698
Ring & pinion w/install kit $ 299
King pins $ 98

Total - $3,045.00

I just pulled these prices with quick google searches, I didn't shop for best prices.
The D60 is nearly 40% more expensive, even without alloy shafts.

MOT - Maximum torque rating.
short side inners...

Dana60 stock MOT: 5500
Dana44 Yukon 4340 30 spline MOT:5800

This doesn't even include rotors, calipers, flat top knuckles, high steer arms etc.

shrug..
 
Last edited:
The torque numbers are off a little bit from what I've found.

I show a 35 spline shaft is closer to 8000.

Also you are comparing the inner 30 spline shaft not the 19 spline stub. That stub is closer to 4000.

Also you failed to leave out the spares. If you did like the above with alloy's and CTM's there is no reason for spares. With the 44 you almost have to carry.

I mentioned it before. The build D44 is an excellent choice 35's, grey area on 37's (breaks occasionally), and a no with anything much bigger. There are guys running 40's with spicer 60 shafts (35 spline stubs) and don't break. Even if the numbers don't show it the wheeling experiences I've seen do.
 
Is it me, or is Opie the parrot on capt ron's shoulder?
just curious... Opie, if Ron caught you even talking about junk yard parts youd be in trouble and have to spend the week in your jeep.
now get back to work you grunt.
XJ_ranger said:
Billy...

stop fawking around with JY parts! :D

and SEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D
Click to expand...
 
How is this for a front 44...
HP ford center chunk tubed with Dodge ram 1500 D44 inner knuckles. run dodge ram 1500 D44 outer parts.
waggy inner CrMo shafts or whatever CrMo shafts you want.
the Dodge ram D44 has 33 spline stubs and unit bearing hubs.
no l,ockouts, CTM's... hell, Jack even has a set of 300M 33 spline inners, and stubs for it with the d44 joints.
Also can chryo treat the D44 gears for additional strenght... just a thought.
 
I've actually became a little more "ok" with the unit bearing stuff. I see the no hubs with CTM's an issue though. That's part of the reason I'm moving up on size and down in beef.

I have to rebuild my high dollar joints about once per year and it has been costing me about $200 shot depending on the joint. I run a good deal of 4 high miles ever year.

To me it's better to use the D60 stuff via the Tera knuckles. The stock Dodges don't really lend themselves to high steer arms and the Tera has it built in. I'm using the Ford knuckles and it's costing well over double to get high steer arms on those knuckles vs. a D44. Even though I bought the base parts fairly cheap I think the Tera knuckle and Dodge unit bearing would be a better buy. I wanted the lockouts though.
 
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