Flex vs. traction and limiting straps

[Beezil]

damn, jnj called scotty slow......yikes!

 

[4ward]

Actually, the hoop probably wouldn't have to go through the hood. There is a lot of room in between where your upper mount is and the bottom of the hood. Come awn John, do it so I can copy it and not have to do all the R&D

Scott, what's your excuse during the week then??????

 

[Ted Z]

Beezil, you saying with much travel you should put a limiting strap to a crossmember up front? I am getting my radius arms on this week and thinkin about moab and if i will need a strap.....

 

[Beezil]

absolutly.

main problem with long arms, is front end unloading....

the tougher Moab obstacles are largely all about ledge climbs. I set up a limiting strap to give me around 4" of straight axle droop.

obviously, centering the limiting strap does not effect the axles ability to articulate.

 

[Carpenter]

I used to follow the more-flex-the-better thoery but after a few scary circumstances with an unchecked, long arm front end I decided to go the limiting strap route. I set mine up kind of what JnJ is describing at the shocks, they limit down travel to when the spring is about to unseat. I also have triangulated straps over the front axle to prevent unloading. I can say that the Jeep works better now and feels MUCH better in all circumstances. There is no way I will run without limiting straps from now on. I don't worry about steep climbs now and, it's probably all in my head but, off camber stuff doesn't bother me as much now either. I have yet to have any problems lifting tires. The suspension feels so much more stable and controled now. Yes flex is good but there comes a point where it hurts you. Just look at the picture Bones posted. Imagine that driver's front tire had to climb a large rock or ledge coming up from that drooped postion, if the tire was up farther, limited by a strap to begin with, it would make that climb a whole lot easier. The harcore rock guys figured out a long time ago that too much flex is a bad thing, just look at all the limiting straps and sway bars on the competition rigs. Having run both ways, straps and no straps, on the same setup I will say that I would take a suspension held in check by a limiting straps over a flexy ramp champ any day. On the trails it just works better.

 

[Scott Mac]

Scott, what's your excuse during the week then??????

I never said I was well paid.

 

[Mike L]

okay, well if you are doing a centered limitng strap up front, fine, it will help loads...

otherwise, your garage science project hasn't proven straps are necessary on the corners.

keep going, you can also add them later.

I saw that you recommended 2 center limit straps going from the frame rails to the center like Goatmans. What about 1 single strap going from the middle under the oil pan to the center of the axle? Other than adjustability, what's the difference?

-Mike L.

 

[Beezil]

I've never recommended two straps. I use a single limiting strap that hangs from a crosstube thats rolled ina gentle arc that sneaks right underneath the oil pan.

 

[Carpenter]

I saw that you recommended 2 center limit straps going from the frame rails to the center like Goatmans. What about 1 single strap going from the middle under the oil pan to the center of the axle? Other than adjustability, what's the difference?

-Mike L.

6 in one, half a dozen in another. I have a crossmember/trackbar brace running under my oil pan I could use yet I decided to install two straps coming from the sides meeting in the middle. Why? No real answer but it will work either way.

 

[Jump This]

I just want to see your centering strap set-up. Sounds great to me.......

 

[Carpenter]

Not the most recent shots and they don't show the recently added brace/x-member but they do show the straps.

 

[Jump This]

I DO like!! Now some shots of it exstended!!
How long have you had this set-up?
Any durability issues yet?
How much droop does this allow for?
Any hot stock tips as well?

Rick

 

[Ted Z]

Where to get straps? How much to expect to pay for them?

 

[Mike L]

Are those center straps from a child's car seat? They look like the teathers to tie the seat down.

Ted Z: You can get limit straps from most any off-road/buggy shop. They typically run @$20 each. For more info, you can look at www.kartek.com

-Mike L.

 

[Carpenter]

Are those center straps from a child's car seat? They look like the teathers to tie the seat down.

-Mike L.

Yeah, that's exactly what they are. No, they are SFI certified adjustable limiting straps. The axle end mounting loops make them look funky but they were the only adjustable straps I could find.

 

[xj4rocks]

so what are you guys doing to keep you're springs from falling out? I've had them fall out with 11" travel shocks. i now have 13" travel shocks and haven't tested them yet but I forsee a problem with loosing springs.

ideas?

 

[Carpenter]

I DO like!! Now some shots of it exstended!!

This shot shows about where the straps stop the front end from unloading.

Old picture, they have been tightened a tad since then. I think the front axle can now drop straight down ~4-5" before the straps tighten.

How long have you had this set-up?

Since December of last year, the above picture was taken two days after x-mas, that was the first trail run with the straps installed.

Any durability issues yet?

None.

Any hot stock tips as well?

Shocks are not bumpstops, nor are they limiting straps. It took me a while but I learned that one. It seems easy to use them as such but they are not intended for that type of use.

 

[Carpenter]

so what are you guys doing to keep you're springs from falling out? I've had them fall out with 11" travel shocks. i now have 13" travel shocks and haven't tested them yet but I forsee a problem with loosing springs.

ideas?

Topic of the thread, look behind the shock for how I do it.

 

[JnJ]

Actually, the hoop probably wouldn't have to go through the hood. There is a lot of room in between where your upper mount is and the bottom of the hood. Come awn John, do it so I can copy it and not have to do all the R&D

Scott, what's your excuse during the week then??????

Well since I just bought these shocks, and currently being unemployed (read broke), the shock hoop will have to wait. In a year or so, I'll be ready to copy your design.
Carpenter, I tend to agree with your thoughts on to much (uncontrolled?) flex. I do like your setup, I guess the bottom line is finding a balance that works for you (me).
I'm sure I'll do a center strap, then I'll have to wheel it some to determine the need, placement, and lenght for outboard straps.

 

[PhatXJ]

you know if you unscrew the bolt were the hard line meets the soft line and make it strait then bolt it down you get about 2 or 3 more inches of limiting strap.

Really?!?!?!

PhatXJ, unfortunately, my dang brake lines are to long to act as limiting straps. Maybe I should invest in some shorter ones.

Yeah man, you should try it