dual batteries

[mikeny59]

I went the eleectronic route, it fried, so I bought Painless's constant duty solenoid battery set-up and I LOVE the simplicity of it.

If you're friendy with the local Jeep parts guy, he may be able to order for you the driver's side diesel battery tray, not allowed for sale in US because of emmsions, but getable.

Mad's the man, see below...

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/ARbattRelocation/BattRelocation.htm

ps I need two batteries 'cause I leave my headlights on alot...

 

[Nevada City Sparky]

Another dual battery option.

So, is that one of the Odessy batteries? Tell us more please.

 

[C85D4x4]

Another dual battery option.

WOW whats all going on in there??

 

[cherokeekid]

Not the best pic, I've been able to get some of the rats nest cleaned up since these pics. I wanted dual batteries to be able to run my ready welder, but also wanted to have belt driven oba and AC. The isolator is a hellroaring, nice small and clean. I'm in the process of builing a new airbox that will tuck in where the filter currently sits and will route to the snorkel

more pics here:
http://www.pnwjeep.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6459

 

[53guy]

So, I'm lost as far as batteries go, what sort of specs are we looking for in a battery to start the jeep? What kinda specs are we looking for in a battery to run lights and a winch? Some of those slim batteries look awesome and they would fit really well under the bench seat in my jeep, but I know nothing about all those numbers.

 

[Lincoln]

There is a 925 and 680 Odyssey mounted in the stock tray. I had to cut out the end for the 925 so it could overlap about 1/2 inch. Then I made the hold down to retain the batteries in their spots without being able to move any closer to one another.

The tray is just there until I decide to build a new one. I broke the stock tray earlier this year when it just had the 925 on it.

Stuff crammed into that area.

The silver part on top of the batteries is a continous duty 100 (or 200 I can't remember which one I bought) relay. You can pick them up fairly cheap from RV stores. It connects the two batteries when the key is forward only.

The 9 bank fuse block is there to replace the original fusible links.

The silver box at the top of the picture is my welder.

There are wires for my winch, 2 ga. wires for the alternator (ground and charge), 2 ga. wire for the starter, 2 ga wires going to the frame and block, 4ga wire to connect the two batteries, 8 ga wire to go to the new 9 bank fuse block, 8 ga wire going to another set of relays on the other side for the air compressor, lights, and electric fan.

As for the Odyssey's I like them, but they do have some limits. The reserve time isn't the best, I found it doesn't really matter which battery you buy size gets the reserve. Deka ( http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/ ) makes some nice small case batteries that really like to dump juice and they are a little cheaper than the Odyssey's. We had a 325 CCA battery dump 625 on a 10 second pull. Again the reserve isn't the best. I was going to use them and see how it stood up to the Odyssey but I couldn't find one that would fit like the pic. They were either 1/2" too wide or 1/2" too thick.

Optima makes 6 volt versions of their 12 volt (exactly 1/2 of the 12). I used to run two of those under the back seat and I had plenty of reserve for my old Stereo and even ran on those when the main battery went bad. It would be easy to get an Odyssey to fit there also.

 

[5-90]

So, I'm lost as far as batteries go, what sort of specs are we looking for in a battery to start the jeep? What kinda specs are we looking for in a battery to run lights and a winch? Some of those slim batteries look awesome and they would fit really well under the bench seat in my jeep, but I know nothing about all those numbers.

You're looking at different tasks...

A "starting battery" is typically what's under the hood of most vehicles - it's meant to deliver a large current for a short period of time (starter motors draw anywhere from 100-250 amps, depending upon engine displacement and condition. Diesels start up around 300A, and go rather higher...) and they are designed to be more or less constantly charged in use.

A "deep cycle" battery is designed to give a relatively small load (say, 50A or less) for several hours at a time, until the battery is nearly depleted. The battery may then be charged without "plate sulphation" - clogging of the "spongy lead" plates with lead sulphate. These are usually used in boats with trolling motors (small electric drive motors,) and in recreational vehicles to run electrical accessories. In the latter case, there is some sort of isolation device that separates the starting battery (so you can start your engine) and to include the battery(ies) in the system when the engine is running (to recharge them.)

Optima - and, I believe, Odyssey - has also come up with a "combination" battery that can deliver the large loads of a starting battery and deliver the long-term low loads of a deep cycle battery.

Given an electric winch, I'd probably connect it directly to a secondary "combination" battery, and then run an isolator or a solenoid to separate the battery in case you have to winch with the engine off (even with the engine on, you'll need a battery as well - but why drain your only battery?)

I'm just a bit leery of running a winch off of my only battery - but I'm a bit odd to begin with. According to everyone else, anyhow...

5-90

 

[Root Moose]

I'm just a bit leery of running a winch off of my only battery...

You are being pretty sane/pro-active worrying about it.

When I run the M8000 off my red top Optima (only battery currently on board) the idiot lights in the dash will freak out as the voltage drops. It will normally start being an issue at around 8-10 seconds into the pull. If the winch is run for another while after that ou can hear the loading of the winch change as it loses power.

This is happening while the engine is at idle mind you, pulling out fence posts and such while solo, but still... The system needs to be built up a bit before trying to do vehicle recovery.

 

[5-90]

You are being pretty sane/pro-active worrying about it.

When I run the M8000 off my red top Optima (only battery currently on board) the idiot lights in the dash will freak out as the voltage drops. It will normally start being an issue at around 8-10 seconds into the pull. If the winch is run for another while after that ou can hear the loading of the winch change as it loses power.

This is happening while the engine is at idle mind you, pulling out fence posts and such while solo, but still... The system needs to be built up a bit before trying to do vehicle recovery.

What do you want - I'm a huge believer in reliability! That's why my personal sidearm is - and has been for a while - a mildly modified (mostly cleaned up) Colt M1991A1SS. It replaced a 1911A1SS, with about the same work done to it - mostly polishing of the scear & hammer hooks, cleanup of the frame rails, and some slight chamber polishing.

It goes "bang" every time I pull the trigger - unless it gets some shonky ammo from somewhere (which, more than anything else, would be "training loads" I develop in order to teach malfunction awareness and clearance.) Solid.

Another advantage of the CRES pistol over those new polymer-frames - I can whack someone upside the head with it to get their attention - it adds three pounds to my fist, and it's harder than anyone's head...

In your case, adding a "combo" battery (Optima Blue Top, I think, or similar?) on a solenoid and, possibly, a "hand throttle" with a friction lock or a vernier control (which would allow you to increase your idle speed) can only help. Support the battery with an additional, and add in a means to hold the idle up around 1200-1500 rpm (so the alternator can generate its full output while you're winching, not afterwards.)

5-90

 

[motorcityxj]

You're looking at different tasks...

A "starting battery" is typically what's under the hood of most vehicles - it's meant to deliver a large current for a short period of time (starter motors draw anywhere from 100-250 amps, depending upon engine displacement and condition. Diesels start up around 300A, and go rather higher...) and they are designed to be more or less constantly charged in use.

A "deep cycle" battery is designed to give a relatively small load (say, 50A or less) for several hours at a time, until the battery is nearly depleted. The battery may then be charged without "plate sulphation" - clogging of the "spongy lead" plates with lead sulphate. These are usually used in boats with trolling motors (small electric drive motors,) and in recreational vehicles to run electrical accessories. In the latter case, there is some sort of isolation device that separates the starting battery (so you can start your engine) and to include the battery(ies) in the system when the engine is running (to recharge them.)

Optima - and, I believe, Odyssey - has also come up with a "combination" battery that can deliver the large loads of a starting battery and deliver the long-term low loads of a deep cycle battery.

Given an electric winch, I'd probably connect it directly to a secondary "combination" battery, and then run an isolator or a solenoid to separate the battery in case you have to winch with the engine off (even with the engine on, you'll need a battery as well - but why drain your only battery?)

I'm just a bit leery of running a winch off of my only battery - but I'm a bit odd to begin with. According to everyone else, anyhow...

5-90

so 5-90 am i abusing a yellow top to use it as my primary battery ? It should instead be used as my second battery and a redtop used to start my jeep.
uhh ohh good thing it has a prorated warranty and its lasted 2 plus years so far. I respect your opinion want to know what you think.

 

[5-90]

The Yellow Top is the "combination" battery, not the "pure deep cycle," right?

Using a straight deep cycle as a starting battery is cruelty, likewise using a starting battery as a deep cycle. However, I've yet to hear any negative reports from the field on them used in any capacity, so it's probably not a problem. I just don't have any direct experience... Yet.

Short answer - if it's not the straight deep cycle, you should be fine. If it is the straight deep cycle, then Yes, you are abusing it.

Fair enough?

5-90

 

[DesertYJ]

There is a 925 and 680 Odyssey mounted in the stock tray. I had to cut out the end for the 925 so it could overlap about 1/2 inch. Then I made the hold down to retain the batteries in their spots without being able to move any closer to one another.

The tray is just there until I decide to build a new one. I broke the stock tray earlier this year when it just had the 925 on it.

Stuff crammed into that area.

The silver part on top of the batteries is a continous duty 100 (or 200 I can't remember which one I bought) relay. You can pick them up fairly cheap from RV stores. It connects the two batteries when the key is forward only.

The 9 bank fuse block is there to replace the original fusible links.

The silver box at the top of the picture is my welder.

There are wires for my winch, 2 ga. wires for the alternator (ground and charge), 2 ga. wire for the starter, 2 ga wires going to the frame and block, 4ga wire to connect the two batteries, 8 ga wire to go to the new 9 bank fuse block, 8 ga wire going to another set of relays on the other side for the air compressor, lights, and electric fan.

As for the Odyssey's I like them, but they do have some limits. The reserve time isn't the best, I found it doesn't really matter which battery you buy size gets the reserve. Deka ( http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/ ) makes some nice small case batteries that really like to dump juice and they are a little cheaper than the Odyssey's. We had a 325 CCA battery dump 625 on a 10 second pull. Again the reserve isn't the best. I was going to use them and see how it stood up to the Odyssey but I couldn't find one that would fit like the pic. They were either 1/2" too wide or 1/2" too thick.

Optima makes 6 volt versions of their 12 volt (exactly 1/2 of the 12). I used to run two of those under the back seat and I had plenty of reserve for my old Stereo and even ran on those when the main battery went bad. It would be easy to get an Odyssey to fit there also.

Please provide a diagram of what you did.

 

[Goatman]

Yeah, Lincoln, quit working trying to get your Dad's rig ready, taking care of the baby, putting in extra time at work, and making sure your rig is ready for vacation, and get off your ass and draw us a diagram of your battery setup that can be posted on the Internet.

Slacker.

 

[5-90]

so 5-90 am i abusing a yellow top to use it as my primary battery ? It should instead be used as my second battery and a redtop used to start my jeep.
uhh ohh good thing it has a prorated warranty and its lasted 2 plus years so far. I respect your opinion want to know what you think.

Correct.

As I recall, the Yellow Top is the "combi" battery - meant to work as a deep cycle and/or a starting cell, so it's probably not really "abusing" the Yellow Top - but you are probably abusing the Red Top, because it's not meant to be used as a deep cycle.

Swap the batteries (make the Red Top your starter, and put the Yellow Top on the isolator,) or just replace the Red Top with a Yellow Top, if you do a lot of "key on engine off" stereo and lights, and you should be fine. The advantage to a deep cycle is that is can be "drawn deeper" before the source voltage drops below a useful level - note my explanation above.

I've not had a chance to really wring out the "dual-purpose" batteries - so I can't really comment on them. I'm planning on keeping the RT starter, and going with a couple of Blue Top (pure Deep Cycle) batteries for additional capacity to draw on with the engine off (lights, battery, inverters, and such.)

 

[Lincoln]

I don't really see why a diagram is needed. I'll see what I can do but here it is in my fine grammar skills.

Positive lead from each battery attaches to each side of the relay. The yellow wire connects to a switched positive from the ignition and the brown goes to ground.

If you look at the picture the upside down U 4 ga red (the yellow 16 ga is zip tied to it) goes from the positive post of the secondary battery to one side of the relay. The U shaped 4 ga that wraps under the radiator hose hooks to the positive post of the main battery and to the other side of the relay.

All the other wires are for the winch, welder, starter, an amp, there is an 8 ga going across the engine by to power my air compressor, rock lights and electric fan, and another 8 ga that provides power to all of the factory accessories. There are grounds for the welder, one to the frame, one to the alternator, and one two the engine block.

When power from the ignition switch turns the relay on both batteries are connected when I shut it off the batteries are isolated.

 

[Lincoln]

Yeah, Lincoln, quit working trying to get your Dad's rig ready, taking care of the baby, putting in extra time at work, and making sure your rig is ready for vacation, and get off your ass and draw us a diagram of your battery setup that can be posted on the Internet.

Slacker.

Let's see, the boys had to take the afternoon off and go for a drive so mom could get a nap. That was a good decision because we were up all night again and yes the baby is sick. That means either Kristen loses vacation time to stay home or I do and work more to make up the lost time.

Imagine me drawing a diagram of my middle finger just for you.

 

[pma4x4]

i like the solonoid that comes in that kit.

That solenoid is not a far off design of a few others.

older Ford starter solonoids, but these are not constant duty.

Warn winch solonoids

I used a Boss Snowplow solonoid for powering my 6 100W KCs on top of my Bronco many years ago. All you needed was a low amp wire and toggle to iginition and when you flipped it you heard a huge "CLUNK" of the solonoid slapping together and the lights flipped on.

I think the Snow plow solonoids were like 25 bucks or so.

EDIT: different solonoids ...Sorry.

 

[5-90]

Yep - vastly different from Ford solenoids. I used to know a guy who used one as an isolator, and ended up replacing it every three months or so.

I switched him to a constant duty solenoid (one of the ones I carry now, in fact,) and he quit replacing them. Amazing how well things work when you use them properly...

 

[DelmarvaXJ]

Most of the dual battery underhood kits use the parts for the Diesel XJs, so you can check for parts for that.

5-90

Wow they made a Diesel XJ? That shows you how much I don't know....:roflmao:

 

[5-90]

Wow they made a Diesel XJ? That shows you how much I don't know....:roflmao:

Sure did! They used the Renault 126ci Turbo Diesel for the American market until about 1990, and I think they used the VAM 2.5L turbo Diesel in Europe for rather longer.