Drunk trucking: Protected?

[Darky]

Hell i can't find my phone half the time.I lost it again this week.I think it is in the garage or the jeep doors, i was working on them this week.LOL.Don't need it,don't want it,can't stand it. I blast my radio so i can't hear people honking at me for driving to slow, you know the posted speed limit.

Send them up here, everyone up here does 5-10 under. I do the speed limit and these people piss me off.

 

[87manche]

I just wanted to make sure - like me, you're railing about people DWY - but you yourself were in a running vehicle with the 'phone to your ear (or on hands-free, you didn't say) at the time. It seemed an odd point....

I also have enough self control to only use a telephone whe nit is safe to do so. Sadly most people don't. There are certainly times when I just let it ring. It has caller ID, I can call you back.


I'm over me - no need to worry about that. However, "responsible use," as I'm sure you're aware, isn't very common. Throw in all of the "creature features" being put into vehicles these days (BMW's iDrive, "entertainment systems," navigation systems, and suchlike,) and most people out there "driving" (I use the term euphemistically) are little more than accidents looking for somewhere to happen. Part of the problem is basic driver training & certification these days - it's too farcical to even be bad comedy. My wife taught one of our boys, I taught the other. Dave made it through easily, because she taught to the test. I taught Chris to drive effectively, and he had the same problem I had - he spotted the errors in the test and therefore failed it (if they'd had the test in French, it would have been easier and he'd have passed, I'm sure. I took it in Arabic one year and Greek in another, and both were easier than the English version...)



Tempting - when was the last time you'd driven with an infant in the vehicle? If you have, you know how distracting they can get - sometimes it's best to pull over and handle things, rather than divide attention and effort.
I don't have children, mostly because I don't like them. but I see parents all the time completely distracted by children in the car. You put forth the concept that cell phones were dangerous because people had an unnatural NEED for them. I countered with infants because it's something that will get your attention more than a cell phone.


Yes, and on vehicle-to-vehicle radios as well. I've known many people who have said that, for some odd reason, talking on a radio is less distracting than talking on the 'phone - and I think so as well. Pity there haven't been any studies on it...



Very true. But, as long as we're going to continue to allow the stupid and the incompetent on the roadways, everyone's going to end up suffering for it. The trainers are incompetent, the certifiers are incompetent, and the tests are badly written - this sounds like a recipe for failure to me (primarily because it means that more people get licenses who should not.)

you are very correct. Driver's ed is a joke. unfortunately there's not much you can do to fix the problem. Driving responsibly requires courteous behavior, and we as a society lack the basic ability to be courteous these days.
(Asian drivers? One of the best drivers I'd known was a Japanese woman who grew up in Hawai'i. Depends on where they're from, I think. Vietnamese are probably the worst of the lot - but I've been through a good chunk of Southeast Asia, and we've still got worse drivers here in CA.)

Q: What's the last thing an Asian driver sees as he pulls off the freeway?

A: (Raise middle finger high through open window.)

(As with 87manche, I'm kidding! It's called a "joke." I'm not politically correct, I don't intend to be, and I don't pretend to be. Thick skin makes it easier to go through life, y'know...)

funny joke.
In all seriousness though, more laws are not going to fix this problem. Just like speed limits don't stop people from speeding and laws against reckless driving and road rage don't stop those either.
I'd rather not have more useless laws on the books, but unfortunately we live in a society that deals with the lowest common denominator, no matter how few, and its at an all time low right now

FWIW I'm the guy that everyone hates on the road. I linger at stop signs and stop lights until I'm sure they're clear, I let people in while in traffic and I drive the speed limit, even on deserted 2 lane highways in the middle of nowhere. I'm happy to lead the parade of road raging drivers behind me.

 

[Darky]

funny joke.
In all seriousness though, more laws are not going to fix this problem. Just like speed limits don't stop people from speeding and laws against reckless driving and road rage don't stop those either.
I'd rather not have more useless laws on the books, but unfortunately we live in a society that deals with the lowest common denominator, no matter how few, and its at an all time low right now

FWIW I'm the guy that everyone hates on the road. I linger at stop signs and stop lights until I'm sure they're clear, I let people in while in traffic and I drive the speed limit, even on deserted 2 lane highways in the middle of nowhere. I'm happy to lead the parade of road raging drivers behind me.

Sounds like we're in agreement for the most part except for how to fix the problem. Here in CA, I have seen fewer people on the phone since the law was added to the books, and while speed limits don't prevent speeding, they do somewhat contain it, and most people I come across are doing the speed limit or even slightly below (which pisses me off, if the limit is 65, do 65, not 60, not 55). Most speeders tend to stick to 10 over, without the speed limit, who knows, maybe they'd do thr same speeds, maybe they'd really push the limits of what their car can do.

 

[87manche]

Sounds like we're in agreement for the most part except for how to fix the problem. Here in CA, I have seen fewer people on the phone since the law was added to the books, and while speed limits don't prevent speeding, they do somewhat contain it, and most people I come across are doing the speed limit or even slightly below (which pisses me off, if the limit is 65, do 65, not 60, not 55). Most speeders tend to stick to 10 over, without the speed limit, who knows, maybe they'd do thr same speeds, maybe they'd really push the limits of what their car can do.

you have seen fewer people, and those are likely the people that were the responsible users anyways. Afterall, they're responsible enough to care about the law. So that still leaves you with the careless, don't give a crap people on the phone.

I'd like to see some real hard statistics as to whether the new laws have actually decreased the amount of accidents that are caused by distracted people on phones.

oh wait, now no one will ever admit to driving and being on the phone, so we can't get real facts about whether or not the new laws are effective.

if you haven't figured it out, I'm very much against the idea of laws regulating the things I can and cannot do, most of them are stupid laws, created by people that have not the slightest clue.

Are the police officers still allowed to be on the phone while driving?

 

[DrMoab]

The plain simple answer is to fine the crap out of the people who cause the problem...after it's a problem, not before they cause one.

If it's going to cost you an extra $1000 or maybe a day or two in jail if you get in a wreck on a phone it will have the same effect as if you made it a $1000 fine or a day or two in jail to talk on the phone while driving.

 

[Darky]

The plain simple answer is to fine the crap out of the people who cause the problem...after it's a problem, not before they cause one.

If it's going to cost you an extra $1000 or maybe a day or two in jail if you get in a wreck on a phone it will have the same effect as if you made it a $1000 fine or a day or two in jail to talk on the phone while driving.

So you still want to make it illegal, just not a preemptive strike? Not trying to be a wise acre...

 

[DrMoab]

So you still want to make it illegal, just not a preemptive strike? Not trying to be a wise acre...

Kind of. I mean if it's true that some people can handle it and some people can't, then why not punish the people who can't instead of everyone?

 

[lucky9]

The plain simple answer is to fine the crap out of the people who cause the problem...after it's a problem, not before they cause one.

If it's going to cost you an extra $1000 or maybe a day or two in jail if you get in a wreck on a phone it will have the same effect as if you made it a $1000 fine or a day or two in jail to talk on the phone while driving.

Right. Wait till someone has an accident to fine them. Wait till maybe someone is killed or maimed to fine them.
What part of 'driving while on the phone is equal to driving while drunk' did you not understand? What part of 'driving while texting is more dangerous than driving while drunk' did you not understand? These are FACTS not suppositions. Not theories. Facts.

You seem to be making this a personal freedom issue. Which is bogus. You don't have the right to place other people at that level of risk. They happen to have the right to be reasonably safe while driving.

I dislike the Supreme Courts decision on the matter, but they have decided that you don't have a 'right' to drive. You have the privilege.

Every Legislature that has taken up the issue has made texting while driving a crime. They have also, at minimum, placed restrictions on using a phone while driving. Usually hands free is supposedly mandated. Research has proven that hands free use of a phone is very little better than holding the phone.
It's the attention that's being paid to the conversation that makes phoning while driving dangerous. Not whether you have the damn thing in your hand.
Hard facts not some Ivory Tower 'freedom of speech' or 'personal freedom' issue. That is, except for everyone's right to be reasonably safe on the roads/highway from some nutcase that thinks hearing about the latest gossip is more important than anyone's right to continue living without disability or even just to keep living. That's the issue here.

I learned to drive when there were no phones (except for millionaires) in cars. I don't remember a single time that I needed to call or be called while driving. If I needed to get in contact with someone then I stopped and used a pay phone (remember those?) and never missed a beat. I never had an issue with doing that. Not ever. So I fail to understand why this is even an issue. It's not a right. And it (a mobile phone) comes with responsibilities. Just like your car does. Just like the privilege of using the roads.

 

[5-90]

funny joke.
In all seriousness though, more laws are not going to fix this problem. Just like speed limits don't stop people from speeding and laws against reckless driving and road rage don't stop those either.
I'd rather not have more useless laws on the books, but unfortunately we live in a society that deals with the lowest common denominator, no matter how few, and its at an all time low right now

FWIW I'm the guy that everyone hates on the road. I linger at stop signs and stop lights until I'm sure they're clear, I let people in while in traffic and I drive the speed limit, even on deserted 2 lane highways in the middle of nowhere. I'm happy to lead the parade of road raging drivers behind me.

Concur - more laws are not (generally) the solution. "More laws" tend to be a way to merely fill State coffers (a couple of examples: in CA, driving without your seat belt is now a "primary offence" - meaning that if they don't see the strap across your chest, they can pull you over for it. This changed a couple of years ago.

(Since San Jose is going broke, they don't issue most speeding tickets. When a speeding ticket is issued, the money goes to the State - then the State sends a cut back to the City. The State hasn't been doing that. So, now, the City writes the ticket for an "administrative offence" - no points, no MV, but the money goes straight to the City now, and bypasses the State.)

I don't jackrabbit at lights either - I see far too many people running lights to want to do that. Three to five seconds is usually enough time, and go ahead and blow your horn ("Horn blows - how about you?") I generally try to drive the speed limit - not because I can't go faster (I'd like to be able to,) but because there's no real "room" as far as speeding tix go anymore, and I don't need the City to make money off of me because they can't figure out how to save it (I'm also the guy who will tell you if you've a taillamp out, because the days of the "zero-dollar fix-it ticket" are long gone.)

@Darky - are you down by 29 Stumps, or something? Since the cell law has gone into effect, I've seen effectively no change in frequency of DWY up here (South SF Bay Area.)

Realistically, I'd like to see better driver training. I'd like to see "Red Asphalt" and "Blood on the Highway" put back in driver training - and a visit to the Coroner's to watch an autopsy on an MVA vic (I got to watch two autopsies in high school - one for Biology/Anatomy, one for Driver's Ed. Both were events I found fascinating.)

But, just try doing that (I think I've gone into the reasons why it won't happen here. If not, I know I've done it recently somewhere, because it feels too fresh in my own mind...)

In most cases, I'd vastly prefer to see education in place of regulation - give people the information to make informed decisions, make them understand that decisions can have consequences far more serious than a fine or a few days' lockup (or a few week-ends picking up trash,) and they'll usually make the decisions they should make anyhow. Kids're the same way, if you give the half a chance.

Besides, in all honesty, I think there are too many laws on the books. However, I'm also pragmatic enough to realise that we may need more laws in the short term, until education begins to outstrip regulation and we don't need them all anymore (and we can begin the work of redaction and rescission.)

However, one of the first "reform laws" I'd like to see passed would be a "zero-growth law" - in order to pass a new law, you have to provide for the rescission of a like amount (page count or individual measures) of extant law.

Like that will ever happen...

 

[DrMoab]

Right. Wait till someone has an accident to fine them. Wait till maybe someone is killed or maimed to fine them.
What part of 'driving while on the phone is equal to driving while drunk' did you not understand? What part of 'driving while texting is more dangerous than driving while drunk' did you not understand? These are FACTS not suppositions. Not theories. Facts.
Texting and talking on the phone are two different animals. I still don't buy that it's as dangerous as driving drunk. If you put as many drunks on the road as there are people talking and texting on their phones it would be a total casastrophie. It's just not. You can spout on about that all you want but it's just not the case...period.

I learned to drive when there were no phones (except for millionaires) in cars. I don't remember a single time that I needed to call or be called while driving. If I needed to get in contact with someone then I stopped and used a pay phone (remember those?) and never missed a beat. I never had an issue with doing that. Not ever. So I fail to understand why this is even an issue. It's not a right. And it (a mobile phone) comes with responsibilities. Just like your car does. Just like the privilege of using the roads.
I drive for a living now and there are times on very long stretches of open highway where my phone is the only thing that keeps me alert. I would fall asleep from boredom if I didn't have the ability to call someone and have a nice stimulating conversation. I get calls from plenty of other drivers in the exact same situation. You also seem to be awfully short sided when it comes to the ability for some of us to quickly pull over and find a pay phone. The truck I drive is so long it doesn't fit into half the truckstops not to mention anywhere else. It's not just an inconvenience for me, it's almost an impossibility. I resent the fact that the idiots out there who can't drive and talk are taking away my ability to do my job in a timely manor.

If having conversations on phones are so dangerous and it's the conversation that is dangerous, we better outlaw mini-vans since they haul so many people that you can have a conversation with. Hell on that point we should make everyone ride motorcycles. Then not only could they not talk to their passengers but they couldn't talk on a cell phone very easy either and when they did, they couldn't hide it from the cops very easy.

P.S...your science is still bunk.

 

[xjbrian219]

firing, hiring, whatever...should be up to the owner of the company or whoever the owner puts in charge of that...government has no business in the matter

 

[tbburg]

Entertaining and true story: About a week after New York passed what was then one of the first laws against using a cell phone while driving, I got a call while driving my CJ. This was in Ohio. As the SW Jeeps are a handful when in the best condition(and mine wasn't) and loud enough to make most phone conversation impossible I pulled off the highway(4-lane, divided, unlimited access/no on/off ramps) and took the call. A cruiser pulled in behind me. Officer did the lic/reg/ins routine, then asked me why I had stopped.
I told him "To answer my phone".
His response: " You shouldn't do that".
So, being the inquisitive sort, I asked him how I should handle a call on the highway. He said I should answer the call, tell the caller to wait, drive to the next "exit"(unlimited access, remember?) then continue the call.
I almost told him that would be illegal in NY, but figured antagonizing him would probably result in a illegal stopping/standing/annoying the officer citation. As it was, I got a warning.

 

[DrMoab]

Reminds me of CHP pulling over people impeding traffic driving in the left lane. You can be doing 20 over and they will still write you a ticket for going too slow.

 

[iwannadie]

The plain simple answer is to fine the crap out of the people who cause the problem...after it's a problem, not before they cause one.

If it's going to cost you an extra $1000 or maybe a day or two in jail if you get in a wreck on a phone it will have the same effect as if you made it a $1000 fine or a day or two in jail to talk on the phone while driving.

How would you prove someone was on a phone during a car accident? The real car accidents I've seen usually destroys the car. Relying on an eye witness to make a claim that someone was in fact holding a cell phone at the time of the accident is pretty unlikely.

Or, maybe you are suggesting anytime there is a car accident your cell phone records are subpoenaed. How is that for freedom all of the sudden your phone call record are put into open court if you were at fault or not you have to provide phone records to prove your own innocence.

We have laws to prevent accidents for a reason. What next, it's ok to run stop signs but if you cause an accident you are then in trouble?

 

[DrMoab]

News for you. They subpoena phone records in vehicle accidents all the time now. Utah has a distracted driving law. You get in a wreck here and it's the first thing they do.

 

[iwannadie]

News for you. They subpoena phone records in vehicle accidents all the time now. Utah has a distracted driving law. You get in a wreck here and it's the first thing they do.

Well, it is a state law then because I haven't herd about it here. How do they factor in pre-paid cell phones or borrowed phones?

Eye witness swears the person was on a phone, they pull the phone record and it shows nothing because the driver was using his cousins phone. Seems like a seriously flawed idea to me.

 

[Darky]

Or check the phones in the car at the time and it'll be pretty obvious if there was a call in progress. Last call was made when and for how long?

 

[MT Mike]

Every Legislature that has taken up the issue has made texting while driving a crime. They have also, at minimum, placed restrictions on using a phone while driving.

100% false. Montana's state legislature has had bills presented the last two sessions to outlaw and/or restrict cell phone use behind the wheel. Both sessions failed to pass ANY laws regarding cell phone usage/texting behind the wheel.

If you're going to throw out blanket statements as fact, you should make sure they're actually true. Otherwise you just end up looking like a jackass. :looser:

 

[iwannadie]

Or check the phones in the car at the time and it'll be pretty obvious if there was a call in progress. Last call was made when and for how long?

Now you are giving the right to check every phone in the car? Why is the passenger of the car giving up their cell phone records? If they do find a phone in the car that had a call during the time of the accident, who is to say it was the driver or that wasn't "pocket dialed".

Imagine driving your car, some how your phone dials home and you don't know it. You happen to get hit by someone who ran a red light you are 100% not at fault and the other driver dies. They pull your phone and are going to claim you were driving while using the phone and are at fault? How do you argue against that in court?

It seems to me like a lot of extra effort and risk of getting things wrong compared to, a cop seeing someone on the phone and issuing a ticket Before an accident.

 

[Darky]

Now you are giving the right to check every phone in the car? Why is the passenger of the car giving up their cell phone records? If they do find a phone in the car that had a call during the time of the accident, who is to say it was the driver or that wasn't "pocket dialed".

Imagine driving your car, some how your phone dials home and you don't know it. You happen to get hit by someone who ran a red light you are 100% not at fault and the other driver dies. They pull your phone and are going to claim you were driving while using the phone and are at fault? How do you argue against that in court?

It seems to me like a lot of extra effort and risk of getting things wrong compared to, a cop seeing someone on the phone and issuing a ticket Before an accident.

Didn't say phone records, when I make a call, my phone shows what the last call was. I don't know bout you, but my phone doesn't pocket dial unless it's been messed with pretty recently. Once it locks, it doesn't unlock accidentally.