Drunk trucking: Protected?

[iwannadie]

Didn't say phone records, when I make a call, my phone shows what the last call was. I don't know bout you, but my phone doesn't pocket dial unless it's been messed with pretty recently. Once it locks, it doesn't unlock accidentally.

So we are basing all the laws now around your personal phone? There's an insane amount of different phones out there old and new. Just because your phone is a certain way doesn't mean everyone else's phone is the same.

Are we going to need a law to make sure phones don't pocket dial and log all activity? Are we also going to need to make them crash proof so that they survive the crash black box style to actually show the last activity since we are not going to use phone records? What if you don't have a new compliant phone?

Also, how long is your cell phone now in police possession? Do they have the man power to pull the activity quickly or does it get taken for a week/month? Is my innocence now based on a cop looking at my phone on the side of the road in the middle of night and hoping he doesn't miss-read the activity? What if my date and time settings got messed up and the cop reads the wrong time for the date?

Or, does the phone become submitted evidence in court? What if you have personal information stored on your smart phone, is that now open evidence in court and up for grabs in the hands of opposing lawyers? What if I am a passenger in a car, my expensive smartphone is taken away for months(if not for good) for a trial. All my personal information is now evidence in court?

 

[lucky9]

100% false. Montana's state legislature has had bills presented the last two sessions to outlaw and/or restrict cell phone use behind the wheel. Both sessions failed to pass ANY laws regarding cell phone usage/texting behind the wheel.

If you're going to throw out blanket statements as fact, you should make sure they're actually true. Otherwise you just end up looking like a jackass.

I should have realized there would be an exception to good sense. Well this jackass can admit it. Hell there might even be one or two more. This however is a very 'absolutist' type of read of what I was attempting to say. However I would say (barring another instance) that I'm not 100% wrong but 98% right. And if one or two other states are similarly not addressing this situation I'll happily lower my percentage to suit.

Does anyone else live in a state that's living in the 19th century?

 

[lucky9]

P.S...your science is still bunk.

I suppose you go to a healer or witch doctor instead of an MD?



I really detest the use of phone records in an investigation where a crime hasn't been charged. But this is happening.

And for the record I would prefer education as a base for dealing with this sort of thing. I just don't think the average driver gives a damn as things stand at the moment.

 

[lucky9]

Ooops! On doing some research it looks like there are 35 states that do not ban handheld cell phones while driving. That's quite a surprise for me.
Only 9 states do not ban texting. Though some of the remaining 41 do have less than an all driver ban on texting.

As usual it appears that our politicians are just as cowardly as ever. I see no reason for me to continue in this thread since I don't evidently share the view of a majority of the citizenry and they and their representatives don't seem capable of doing anything except continuing to dodge as effectively as possible. God help us.

 

[bigalpha]

In TN, you aren't supposed to text while driving but you can still talk on the phone.

Edit - I support what DrMoab is saying here. If you want to get high and mighty about cell phone usage, then you need to make anything else inside a car non-adjustable while the car is moving -- including mirrors, seats, radio, nav system, etc.

I talk on my cell phone while driving sometimes. I don't know about you but I am capable of paying attention to driving while holding a conversation. You may not be able to walk, chew gum and pay your head but many other people can.

 

[lucky9]

No doubt.

For those interested here are the laws as they are researched by wikipedia: http://www.iihs.org/laws/cellphonelaws.aspx

 

[5-90]

Ooops! On doing some research it looks like there are 35 states that do not ban handheld cell phones while driving. That's quite a surprise for me.
Only 9 states do not ban texting. Though some of the remaining 41 do have less than an all driver ban on texting.

As usual it appears that our politicians are just as cowardly as ever. I see no reason for me to continue in this thread since I don't evidently share the view of a majority of the citizenry and they and their representatives don't seem capable of doing anything except continuing to dodge as effectively as possible. God help us.

What makes you think the pols are in touch with what the citizenry wants? How large a percentage of the populace did not want O-care passed? How large a margin did it have when it did pass?

For those of you who assert that you can pay attention while DWY, I'd like to say two things:
1 - It's far more the exception than the rule.
2 - Please pardon me if I decide to reserve judgement.

I know I can pay attention while I'm driving and talking on the 'phone - I have had rare occasions where doing so was absolutely necessary, and it wasn't a distraction for me. However, I probably consider myself (as a driver) to be in the top 1/10 of 1% here in CA - but I'm just cranky (ask my wife...) The average yutz doing it out here doesn't seem to have enough functioning brain cells on task to form a synapse.

I liken a restructuring of motor vehicle operator's licenses to be similar to what the FAA does for piloting: you have brackets for what you have demonstrated an ability to drive, with certain vehicles needing specific endorsement (Viper, Corvette, high-performance Porsche, HP Benz, HP BMW, ...) and if you get caught driving "out of bracket" without an emergency in progress, Gawd help you.

From what I've seen, I'd have a hard time licensing most people out here to handle more power than can be made with a three-speed bicycle.

Driving While Yapping, loose loads in trucks, crap flying out the back of a pickup bed - I've seen the worst of the bad out here.

I've often been asked that, if I have such a problem with it, why don't I open a driving school myself? A few things get in the way...

- Make it mandatory. If you haven't been trained by me, you will be. New licenses must have a cert from me to complete the application - and the extant licenses would go through me as well.

- If you fail my course, you either don't get a license (applicant0 or lose your license (extant) until you manage to pass.

- I teach in English. Deal. Don't know English? If you're going to be here long enough to need an operator's license, you damned well need to learn it anyhow.

- People will fail the course. Not because I'm cranky, not because I want to make a point, but through their own brute incompetence. Or through an inability to express yourself in English. Or an inability to understand English. I don't have to be cranky to cut traffic statewide by, say, a third out of hand this way.

- I'd also make it so that people dobbed in for CVC14601 (no/suspended/revoked license) who knew their license was invalid/knew they didn't have one would get knocked off for a few grand - and pick up a few months' "Weekend Work" detail. There are plenty of idiot sticks that want pushing around here, believe me...

- If you drive around without having bothered to get a license, forget about getting one.

- No, my course would not be expensive to attend. There would be some travelling involved (don't get snow much around here, and the "rain" is what I tend to think of as "visible humidity...") and you will be spending some time in weather - snow, ice, rain, and hopefully sleet and hail if I can find/manufacture some!

If you fail the course the first time, you are still able to pass - if you apply yourself, and if you correct the deficiency/ies that caused you to fail the first time...

 

[OutkastBoss]

This a tough room lol hone:=:skull2:

BEWARE!?!?!?

Anyway the pocket dial Issue is a valid point as Far as charging someone for doing something that they may not be doing..

I'm sure You are aware (Darky) That more than one cell phone model has been produced (i think in a crazy scheme to make profit) and not all of them are as practical or as masterfully crafted as your particular model of flawlessness.. Mine for example is a palm pre and i periodically pocket dial (not often).. As well as few other people i know like my brothers blackberry does it like daily (might be his fault).. enough so his first couple numbers in his phonebook are time and temp so he would stop bothering people..

This renders any law using cell phone records useless as it proves absolutely nothing except the phone was active not that it was intentionally in use.. the first person with enough money and a good lawyer will squash that law. (and probably be guilty)..

Man i allways hated cell phones and waited a long time to get one .. I remember when no one got all butt hurt when you didnt answer your phone.. its like a dang leash no one has any time to themselves .
Call the house.. no answer? leave a message, real simple. Got an emergency? better call someone else..

Now its phone calls w voicemail.. then if its an "emergency" or deemed "important" by the caller its a i know its in your pocket attitude with multiple calls and then WTF texts untill i get mad enough to be like fuxx off if i was going to answer and deal with you i would have already JERK! People that know me have gotten the point like if im under my damm jeep fighting a dammned bolt im not gonna call you back for a while. or at a parent teacher conference or anything like that .

OR DRIVING!!!hasta

p.s.Not trying to piss you off darky just havin fun

p.s.s
why i love my cell (since i said what i dont like) i Do love having the internet at my fingertips , i cant count how many times ive googled naxja and whatever i was looking for (like torque specs) while working on my jeep. or googling a walkthrough (im learning as i go)
and both me and my girls phones are synched to a joint google calendar keeping our schedules synched automatically.. and i actually get my emails ( never checked on pc).. its so much faster to pick up my phone than it is to boot up the laptop and itll do dang near anything my puter can

 

[Darky]

So we are basing all the laws now around your personal phone? There's an insane amount of different phones out there old and new. Just because your phone is a certain way doesn't mean everyone else's phone is the same.

Are we going to need a law to make sure phones don't pocket dial and log all activity? Are we also going to need to make them crash proof so that they survive the crash black box style to actually show the last activity since we are not going to use phone records? What if you don't have a new compliant phone?

Also, how long is your cell phone now in police possession? Do they have the man power to pull the activity quickly or does it get taken for a week/month? Is my innocence now based on a cop looking at my phone on the side of the road in the middle of night and hoping he doesn't miss-read the activity? What if my date and time settings got messed up and the cop reads the wrong time for the date?

Or, does the phone become submitted evidence in court? What if you have personal information stored on your smart phone, is that now open evidence in court and up for grabs in the hands of opposing lawyers? What if I am a passenger in a car, my expensive smartphone is taken away for months(if not for good) for a trial. All my personal information is now evidence in court?

This a tough room lol hone:=:skull2:

BEWARE!?!?!?

Anyway the pocket dial Issue is a valid point as Far as charging someone for doing something that they may not be doing..

I'm sure You are aware (Darky) That more than one cell phone model has been produced (i think in a crazy scheme to make profit) and not all of them are as practical or as masterfully crafted as your particular model of flawlessness.. Mine for example is a palm pre and i periodically pocket dial (not often).. As well as few other people i know like my brothers blackberry does it like daily (might be his fault).. enough so his first couple numbers in his phonebook are time and temp so he would stop bothering people..

This renders any law using cell phone records useless as it proves absolutely nothing except the phone was active not that it was intentionally in use.. the first person with enough money and a good lawyer will squash that law. (and probably be guilty)..

Man i allways hated cell phones and waited a long time to get one .. I remember when no one got all butt hurt when you didnt answer your phone.. its like a dang leash no one has any time to themselves .
Call the house.. no answer? leave a message, real simple. Got an emergency? better call someone else..

Now its phone calls w voicemail.. then if its an "emergency" or deemed "important" by the caller its a i know its in your pocket attitude with multiple calls and then WTF texts untill i get mad enough to be like fuxx off if i was going to answer and deal with you i would have already JERK! People that know me have gotten the point like if im under my damm jeep fighting a dammned bolt im not gonna call you back for a while. or at a parent teacher conference or anything like that .

OR DRIVING!!!hasta

p.s.Not trying to piss you off darky just havin fun

p.s.s
why i love my cell (since i said what i dont like) i Do love having the internet at my fingertips , i cant count how many times ive googled naxja and whatever i was looking for (like torque specs) while working on my jeep. or googling a walkthrough (im learning as i go)
and both me and my girls phones are synched to a joint google calendar keeping our schedules synched automatically.. and i actually get my emails ( never checked on pc).. its so much faster to pick up my phone than it is to boot up the laptop and itll do dang near anything my puter can

In all honesty, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate with iwannadie since he apparently hasn't read the whole thread. I am for the idea of ticketing people seen texting while driving.

As far as phones being different...really? I've had a few since getting my first one in 2003 (I know, I came late to the party) and all have had a call log of one sort or another. This includes my Nokia brick phone with the pre-polyphonic ringtone and Gameboy style screen (no, not Gameboy Advance either). A couple of my previous ones did have poorly designed locking systems, however my old school Nokia brick was pretty secure as was my last non-smart phone. Flip phones, of course are pretty invulnerable to pocket dialing as well. Basing my info on my highly unscientific studies of a nondiverse sample, I can say most people are runnign reasonably modern phones with good protection against pocket dialing.

 

[5-90]

This a tough room lol hone:=:skull2:

BEWARE!?!?!?

Anyway the pocket dial Issue is a valid point as Far as charging someone for doing something that they may not be doing..

I'm sure You are aware (Darky) That more than one cell phone model has been produced (i think in a crazy scheme to make profit) and not all of them are as practical or as masterfully crafted as your particular model of flawlessness.. Mine for example is a palm pre and i periodically pocket dial (not often).. As well as few other people i know like my brothers blackberry does it like daily (might be his fault).. enough so his first couple numbers in his phonebook are time and temp so he would stop bothering people..

This renders any law using cell phone records useless as it proves absolutely nothing except the phone was active not that it was intentionally in use.. the first person with enough money and a good lawyer will squash that law. (and probably be guilty)..

Man i allways hated cell phones and waited a long time to get one .. I remember when no one got all butt hurt when you didnt answer your phone.. its like a dang leash no one has any time to themselves .
Call the house.. no answer? leave a message, real simple. Got an emergency? better call someone else..

Now its phone calls w voicemail.. then if its an "emergency" or deemed "important" by the caller its a i know its in your pocket attitude with multiple calls and then WTF texts untill i get mad enough to be like fuxx off if i was going to answer and deal with you i would have already JERK! People that know me have gotten the point like if im under my damm jeep fighting a dammned bolt im not gonna call you back for a while. or at a parent teacher conference or anything like that .

OR DRIVING!!!hasta

p.s.Not trying to piss you off darky just havin fun

p.s.s
why i love my cell (since i said what i dont like) i Do love having the internet at my fingertips , i cant count how many times ive googled naxja and whatever i was looking for (like torque specs) while working on my jeep. or googling a walkthrough (im learning as i go)
and both me and my girls phones are synched to a joint google calendar keeping our schedules synched automatically.. and i actually get my emails ( never checked on pc).. its so much faster to pick up my phone than it is to boot up the laptop and itll do dang near anything my puter can

Pocket dialling is why I've never liked "bar" 'phones - gimme a clamshell 'phone any day. Besides, it opens up longer.

I can't stand 'phones, but I do have one. Why? Left over from when I needed to co-ordinate activity taking care of my MIL (which was about two full-time jobs by itself.)

Most of the people in my phonebook are doctors - the rest are directly related to me (I've been able to purge a few MDs - I don't need an oncologist, a gerontologist, or a critical care pulmonologist, folr instance.)

The people who have the number are the people in my phonebook - if a number comes up that doesn't get a name to it or that I don't recognise, they get my (rather creditable) impression of GySGT Hartman from "Full Metal Jacket."

Everyone that has the number knows it's strictly for emergencies, and if it's not an emergency when you call, it will be when I get there.

I don't have a camera
I don't data
I don't have games (which confuses my granddaughter to no end)
I can't send/receive texts (same thing)
I don't have voicemail (I got tired of people leaving messages, my having no farkin' idea who they were, and paying for the privilege! Want to leave me a message? Call the house.)
I don't have a plan - it's pay as you go. Why? Because one month on any given "plan" will give me more minutes than I'll use in the average year - so why pay for them? I like the fact that my cell bill runs $40-50/year (and it would be less than that, if I could swing it.) The most I've spent on service in a year has been $80 or so.

The stuff I don't have? I don't want! I have a camera that takes better pix than the 'phones ever will. I don't need games. I've explained voicemail. It took me 22 years to learn to type on a full keyboard - I hit buttons 2-3 at a time on that little damned keypad. I just don't need the headaches.

It's usually an amusing show when I'm walking through the mall, and one of those guys in the aisle cell kiosk starts trying to sell me a 'phone, or a plan

 

[DrMoab]

I can understand why someone who has a normal life would be fine not having voicemail, data or the ability to text but I couldn't live without it. To me a smart phone is a miraculous device which allows me freedoms I never had before. I spend a lot of time sitting with nothing to do while I'm unloading or loading my truck (takes an hour or two for each)

The ability to sit back and watch a movie on Netflix is almost heaven sent. Also the ability to communicate with the outside world in environments where I have no other form of communication is huge.

What I don't understand is not having the desire for a camera in a modern phone. They say the best camera is the one you have with you. Since your phone...at least for most people is always in their pocket it just seems silly to shun having one on your phone. Combine that with the fact that most phones have cameras that blow away any point and shoot from just five years ago and it only compounds that point.

Not to mention, how would you grab shots like this without one?

Yes, I used my phone...while driving to capture that. Of course I was pulling 129,000 lbs up an 8% grade so I wasn't likely to hurt anyone at 15 mph. Not every day an ATV passes you on a double yellow line

 

[scottmcneal]

Glad it wasn't a yogo passing you.LOL

 

[tbburg]

To go back a couple pages:

The studies are bunk and use junk science to validate their claims.

Explain, please.

'Gotta side with DrMoab here, at least partially. One of the things I took away from my college statistics course was the instructor saying, "Tell me what you want to prove, and I can get the statistics to back it up."

What we usually get is the news headline,"Studies show texting is as dangerous as drunk driving."or some other hair-raising sentence, followed by a statistical summary, and quotes from concerned politicians, an antecedent or two then another summary.

The "study" (if you can even find the source) may consist of some idiot looking at stats and noticing that 9% of all auto accidents involve alcohol, and 9% involve people distracted by a phone. Presto! Texting is as dangerous as drunk driving!
The fact that maybe one in a thousand people(one in 10,000?) drive after getting hammered and maybe one in,.. two?,.. three?.. use a phone while driving on a regular basis doesn't enter into the "study" at all. To put it another way, what is the actual exposure? We can tell how many people had accidents, but how many people didn't have accidents?
That inconvenient factoid might skew the results a bit.

There's a cute saying: Correlation does not equal causation.

It's pretty hard to unravel the various crap to find out if a real study has been done, and if the study actually proves anything about the conclusions drawn.

Yes, I'm aware of real studies that show distractions while driving greatly decrease a person's ability to drive safely.

 

[5-90]

I can understand why someone who has a normal life would be fine not having voicemail, data or the ability to text but I couldn't live without it. To me a smart phone is a miraculous device which allows me freedoms I never had before. I spend a lot of time sitting with nothing to do while I'm unloading or loading my truck (takes an hour or two for each)

The ability to sit back and watch a movie on Netflix is almost heaven sent. Also the ability to communicate with the outside world in environments where I have no other form of communication is huge.

What I don't understand is not having the desire for a camera in a modern phone. They say the best camera is the one you have with you. Since your phone...at least for most people is always in their pocket it just seems silly to shun having one on your phone. Combine that with the fact that most phones have cameras that blow away any point and shoot from just five years ago and it only compounds that point.

Not to mention, how would you grab shots like this without one?

Yes, I used my phone...while driving to capture that. Of course I was pulling 129,000 lbs up an 8% grade so I wasn't likely to hurt anyone at 15 mph. Not every day an ATV passes you on a double yellow line

Pictures are relatively easy - simply because I carry my camera rather more often than my 'phone in the first place.

People who ask me for the number get, "I have it for my convenience, not for yours. Leave me a message at home - or email me.) create problems and then perpetuate them in the goal of keeping their offices.

When do I carry my 'phone? Maybe when I'm travelling, or when I've got running about to do that is time-sensitive and can be subject to change based on input (typically from my wife. She's about the only person I don't get short with when she calls me - everyone else is assuming a certain amount of risk. Yah, even mum, kid sis, and our kids. Nanna has the number, but rarely calls - we usually end up chatting online.)

 

[Darky]

Quit putting an apostrophe in front of phone. You aren't abbreviating anything. It's either a mobile phone or a cellular phone. Cell phone is just a shortening of cellular. So, if anything, it should be cell' phone, but that'd still be wrong.

 

[OutkastBoss]

Quit putting an apostrophe in front of phone. You aren't abbreviating anything. It's either a mobile phone or a cellular phone. Cell phone is just a shortening of cellular. So, if anything, it should be cell' phone, but that'd still be wrong.

I got a pretty serious chuckle out of this for some raisin , (yes i said raisin)

Seems like some valid points in those last few i couldnt find much to disagree with i suppose, (even the yugo part)
although i do find my camera useful (the one i carry often ends up with dead batt) Another use i have is i have the touchstone charger that i just set it on and it magnetically holds to the base sitting at a 45 deg. and charging with no plug in . i have this mounted next to my shifter it works great for g.p.s. usage

it's interesting how much of an effect these devices have on our lives that we'd even have these conversations about 'phones

And im totally gonna steal the Cell phones for my convenience not your's bit the next time someone asks for my # im not too keen on giving it to ( i also limit giving it but have a much longer explanation i usually use),

h'mm trie'd to use the 'ole spell check' and they wanted me to re d/l' it, h'mm wonder why,

(unecessary apostrophe)

 

[tbburg]

Quit putting an apostrophe in front of phone. You aren't abbreviating anything,...

I always thought it was "telephone".

 

[Darky]

I always thought it was "telephone".

Oh yeah smarty pants? Phone has become a word of its own through common usage rule.

 

[AwesomeXJ]

Right. Wait till someone has an accident to fine them. Wait till maybe someone is killed or maimed to fine them.
What part of 'driving while on the phone is equal to driving while drunk' did you not understand? What part of 'driving while texting is more dangerous than driving while drunk' did you not understand? These are FACTS not suppositions. Not theories. Facts.

You seem to be making this a personal freedom issue. Which is bogus. You don't have the right to place other people at that level of risk. They happen to have the right to be reasonably safe while driving.

I dislike the Supreme Courts decision on the matter, but they have decided that you don't have a 'right' to drive. You have the privilege.

Every Legislature that has taken up the issue has made texting while driving a crime. They have also, at minimum, placed restrictions on using a phone while driving. Usually hands free is supposedly mandated. Research has proven that hands free use of a phone is very little better than holding the phone.
It's the attention that's being paid to the conversation that makes phoning while driving dangerous. Not whether you have the damn thing in your hand.
Hard facts not some Ivory Tower 'freedom of speech' or 'personal freedom' issue. That is, except for everyone's right to be reasonably safe on the roads/highway from some nutcase that thinks hearing about the latest gossip is more important than anyone's right to continue living without disability or even just to keep living. That's the issue here.

I learned to drive when there were no phones (except for millionaires) in cars. I don't remember a single time that I needed to call or be called while driving. If I needed to get in contact with someone then I stopped and used a pay phone (remember those?) and never missed a beat. I never had an issue with doing that. Not ever. So I fail to understand why this is even an issue. It's not a right. And it (a mobile phone) comes with responsibilities. Just like your car does. Just like the privilege of using the roads.

While they are at it why not make eating, applying makeup, and touch screen/visual nav systems all illegal too. They all distract the driver just as much. Haven't you ever been driving while eating a burger and a tomatoe fell on you lap? Don't tell me you didn't look down at it.

While they're at it let's ban vanity plates and bumper stickers they can distract also. But if your fear is about not being safe on the road or about someone doing something that allows the slight possibility that you could become maimed or be killed. Fine! How big is your lift and steel offroad bumper. You don't think that if you collided with a passenger car you may kill someone when your stinger or winch crushes their skull. And as far as fineing someone after they cause harm instead of before think of this. You can't be charged with murder if you haven't killed someone yet.... think about it. You probably think I'm takeing this too far but I'm not. Everything I mentioned has been tried to make illegal and fail due to PERSONAL FREEDOM. I can't stand people like you. You don't like it so no one should like it. Move to the iranian desert....... problem solved.


Sent from my mind cause I'm so Awesome.

 

[bigalpha]

The stats are in. If you phone and drive you're as dangerous as a drunk driver. If you text and drive you're even more dangerous.

Also, can you provide these stats?