Drum brakes wet, not sure where it's comeing from

[Redsnake]

OK... so I've been getting a bit of a squeal f/my rear passenger drum brake on my '01 XJ. I assumed it could be time to replace the shoes (have 124K miles on her) and when I pulled the drum on my passenger side wheel and the drum, it was saturated/wet w/fluid. Not sure what kind of fluid or where it came from as it was so dirty. I'm a newbie on drums and wondered if it could be a cylinder leaking or if perhaps an axle seal leaking? I didn't notice any fluid coming f/where the axle is, but that's not to say it's not the culprit.

What do you think, is this a potential wreck waiting to happen or what???

Any suggestions? I'm wanting to upgrade to disks on the rear, but at this very time I'm not in a place to do that financially. I'd just like to fix this and then upgrade down the road.

Here's some pics...

inside of drum

outside of drum edge... notice the wet area all around the drum

drivers side drum for reference. nice and dry.

 

[91to99]

The second pic looks as if there is a spot on the wheel cylinder... I would start there... Go in and pump the brakes and see if anything comes out.
Fwiw they are pretty cheap to replace.

 

[Tim_MN]

Brake Cylinders are cheap, buy a pair and service your brakes. Gear oil or brake fluid saturated brake shoes need to be replaced.

 

[N8N_99xj]

Gotta be either the wheel cylinder or else the axle seal. Those are the only two things that can fail and dump goo on your shoes! I'd just replace both "while you're in there"

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Do not pump the brakes with the drum off. You risk blowing out the wheel cylinder... That being said, smell the fluid that is leaking both gear oil and brake fluid have distinctive aromas. Also, use a paper towel and lightl wipe the wheel cylinder at the rubber cups. If there has been leakage, it will show. If the cylinder is dry look to the wheel bearing seal to be the culprit. In any case, at 124k miles, I would draw out the axles and replace the seals even if it turns out to be just the wheel cylinder. It is profoundly easier to do the brakes with the axle out of the way.

The shoes need to go. As shoes are made out of organics these days, they pick up oil faster than a three handed pick-pocket. Once saturated, there is no recovery.

 

[RollingWreck]

to check the wheel cyls pull back the rubber boots and check for any wetness. im betting you will get muddy looking fluid from them. good condition should be dry with no slime or wetness. brakes are my specialty and most of my official training as a mechanic. also make sure to use proper flare nut wrenches to remove the brake line, a regular wrench will round off the very soft metal near instantly. even a cheap set is better than a normal wrench. and i highly recommend taking pics of how everything went together, even some of us brake techs still take pics!

 

[Redsnake]

Thanks for all the advice. I dread working on my drum brakes... just never had to do it but have done MANY disk brake jobs in my time. I'll do some more reading and searching now that you all have given me parts to check & suggestions of what it could be. I may have to see if I can scrape up the $$ & finally just do a disc-brake conversion as apposed to doing a brake job & still just having drums.

 

[ChevelleSSLS6]

I had to replace wheel cylinders (for the brakes) on my XJ... pretty simple job.

 

[2X_01_Jeeps]

When working on drum brakes ONLY disassemble one wheel at a time. The other wheel serves as an example of how things should be put together in case you get confused.

Since you have the grooved type shoes you'll have to get the drums turned to match the replacement shoes since the replacements won't be grooved. The old drum has a matching un-worn strip in the middle of the friction area that has to be machined out.

 

[Redsnake]

Thanks again. I think if I do work on my drums (vs doing a disc swap) I'll just replace the drums (as apposed to turning them). I know turning them can be done ok, I've just had trouble when turning disc brake rotors...

 

[N8N_99xj]

Drums don't warp like discs do... Whether to turn or replace really only depends on wear and cost.

 

[weebur]

Thanks again. I think if I do work on my drums (vs doing a disc swap) I'll just replace the drums (as apposed to turning them). I know turning them can be done ok, I've just had trouble when turning disc brake rotors...

I just had O'Reillys turn my drums for $8 a piece, Vs. $40 a piece for new ones and $20 a piece to have NAPA turn them. As long as you stay within the maximum diameter there is no reason not to turn them.

 

[Redsnake]

Thanks again. See, I'm quite lacking in my Drum Brake knowledge... but always looking to learn. sounds like getting the drum turned would be the more feasible way on this one.

 

[N8N_99xj]

this is going to sound like heresy, but I don't usually even have drums turned unless there's an obvious problem. usually they wear pretty smooth, I just rough them up with some coarse emery cloth and reinstall. If you're real anal retentive you could dunk them in your electrolytic derusting tank and paint before reinstallation

 

[Redsnake]

this is going to sound like heresy, but I don't usually even have drums turned unless there's an obvious problem. usually they wear pretty smooth, I just rough them up with some coarse emery cloth and reinstall. If you're real anal retentive you could dunk them in your electrolytic derusting tank and paint before reinstallation

I need to replace the shoe in my particular application and the drums are grooved pretty heavily f/the current pads. My guess is it'd be worth the extra $10 since I need to replace the shoes & wheel cylinder likely in my case. If I could get by w/out turning them that'd be great too, but I'm not sure that's a great idea w/the groves already worn in my current drums.

 

[N8N_99xj]

yeah, if you have grooves, they ought to be turned (or replaced, if they can't be turned to an acceptable size.)

 

[Redsnake]

yeah, if you have grooves, they ought to be turned (or replaced, if they can't be turned to an acceptable size.)

I do. Not sure if you can tell w/the pic I posted above (or here again) but you can see the ring inside the drum that is darker. It's actually wet and a raised grove w/the shoe has not been touching.

I may just try and get a new drum, shoes, springs and wheel cylinder so I can get them all swapped at once in lieu of stopping in the middle of the job to get the drum turned. However I'll keep it as a spare...

 

[N8N_99xj]

if you replace shoes you will get an axle set. Likewise, if you get a new drum you should replace both. If you also replace the wheel cylinder, theoretically you should replace those in pairs as well - although depending on how rusty your underbits are you may find that more trouble than it's worth; I've been known to use a "rebuild kit" (basically cups and seals) on the "good" side and hone it in place in lieu of trying to break the hard line free without destroying it which is often an exercise in futility.

But basically, the "official recommendation" is "replace brake parts in axle sets." IOW, if you replace something on one side, replace it on the other side as well. This is essential on the front, less so in the rear, but it is a good recommendation and I'll second it even though I haven't always followed it personally. I think the drums and wheel cylinders are the only brake components that are not typically sold in axle sets anyway.

I can't see your pics right now (at work, too lazy to wait for them to load on phone) but a truly anal-retentive person will replace the "hardware kit" (basically, springs, nails and retainers) when replacing shoes and possibly the "self-adjuster kit" as well (star wheel assembly, cable, and lever.) None of this stuff is really that expensive, esp. if you have the luxury of waiting and order from rock auto or something like that.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

I do two things with Drum Brake rebuilds. I replace the shoes and the drums. Yes, I know, the drum can be turned but then the diameter of the shoe no longer matches the diameter of the drum which gives poorer stopping until you wear down the "high spot" on the shoes. Most States no longer the shoes to be "arched". Back in the day (I'm old remember so, back to the 60s here...) After turning the drums, making both the same size, we woud then cut the shoes to the new running diameter to ensure complete engagement. Here in Colorado, no can do so I replace the drums as well.

Some vehicle manufacturers suggest, strongly, that you do not turn disks either. Mercedes being the most vocal about it. The claim is that the disk is as thin as possible already and if you thin it out more, it can lead to the disk warping.

 

[Redsnake]

Another? I'm looking for new Drums and I'm finding 9", 9-1/2", 10", Police package, etc... I think I have the 10" drums, but I'm not sure. I'd like to order some or buy some and be sure about what I'm getting.

Can anything confirm what I have f/the pics?