Death sentences....

[IXNAYXJ]

I have taken lives before, but that was provoked by a threat upon my favorite goldfish.

5-90

Gawd, and I thought I was nuts!

5-90

So did the rest of us....

-----Matt-----

 

[bjoehandley]

I'm 100% for it!!!! I worked for a crazy bitch that killed her husband (read about it HERE) Oh, its been 3 years since the murder and its still not gone to trial, what a bunch of crap!!

YIKES:shiver: , I questioned the use of the term crazy bitch till I actually read that! I don't know if there is a nicer way to describe her:shocked:

Interesting name of her accomplice though

 

[5-90]

So did the rest of us....

-----Matt-----

Nah - not goldfish, favourite rat. I have never kept goldfish, they aren't fun. Rats are fun!

5-90

 

[goodburbon]

It would depend on the circumstances of the crime, and If I too was convinced that they are guilty, I think I could take care of that problem as well. The only problem is that the revenue saved by buying a 5 cent bullet as opposed to supporting a criminal for 20+ years would just disappear back into the coffers, and the teachers would still be hitting us up for another tax so they could get a payraise.

 

[5-90]

It would depend on the circumstances of the crime, and If I too was convinced that they are guilty, I think I could take care of that problem as well. The only problem is that the revenue saved by buying a 5 cent bullet as opposed to supporting a criminal for 20+ years would just disappear back into the coffers, and the teachers would still be hitting us up for another tax so they could get a payraise.

I think that's an easy one to fix - stop wasting money on "administration," and put it into "direct overhead" - like teacher salaries, maintenance, and facilities.

I have long found it interesting that pay level seems to be in inverse proportion to the individual's direct contribution, and admini-weenies and bureaucrats should be forced to do "real" work out of hand. I have no trouble with paying teachers who actually teach (don't get me started on the ones that don't...) since they contribute to society in the most elemental way possible. Functionaries should be sent to trade schools - so they can learn to MAKE a contribution to society. As far as any "committee" running things? "The idea committee assembled for the purpose of accomplishing anything consists of three men, two of whom are absent." A "committee" can serve in an advisory status, but final decisions should be left to an individual, with responsibility for such decisions resting squarely upon his shoulders.

5-90

 

[WB9YZU]

Interesting thread... and a sticky subject.
I'm kinda far right on this one

People try and justify their way out of reality. Guess what? Life is an injustice. We constantly kill to eat, we kill to preserve ourselves. This is just killing to preserve our society and since preserving our society is the goal of the whole justice system, it is the last, but neccesary, end to those which can not be dealt with in another way.

As far as this whole injection business goes, it's B.S. There is no way to make death "humane", death is death. A death by injection is just as "humane" as a hanging or by drawing and quartering. Like most things in America, the idea of "cruel and unusual punishment" has been hyjacked by those on the far left.

If it were not for some straight thinking inmate in the WI prison system, Jeffery Dalmer would still be a resident of the WI judicial system. Criminal or criminally insane, it's all the same to me. If the will for self control no longer exists, they are dangerous animals and should also be put down as one.

Would I be willing to pull the trigger or set the device into motion? Without predjudice.

Ron

 

[Blkxjkrawler]

I think that's an easy one to fix - stop wasting money on "administration," and put it into "direct overhead" - like teacher salaries, maintenance, and facilities.

I have long found it interesting that pay level seems to be in inverse proportion to the individual's direct contribution, and admini-weenies and bureaucrats should be forced to do "real" work out of hand. I have no trouble with paying teachers who actually teach (don't get me started on the ones that don't...) since they contribute to society in the most elemental way possible.
5-90

I agree completley, Both of my parents are in education. Thoughout their 25+ year careers I have watched the demands placed on them both by the students,and the system increase monumentally, while compensation has has increased minimally. Neither of my parents would ever complain, nor have they been involved in any of the strikes that seem to happen bi annually. They both are there because they love children and they love to teach. But the fact that we are paying the people who are responsible for molding our future such a pittance is absurd.

 

[Starscream]

I think that's an easy one to fix - stop wasting money on "administration," and put it into "direct overhead" - like teacher salaries, maintenance, and facilities.

I have long found it interesting that pay level seems to be in inverse proportion to the individual's direct contribution, and admini-weenies and bureaucrats should be forced to do "real" work out of hand. I have no trouble with paying teachers who actually teach (don't get me started on the ones that don't...) since they contribute to society in the most elemental way possible. Functionaries should be sent to trade schools - so they can learn to MAKE a contribution to society. As far as any "committee" running things? "The idea committee assembled for the purpose of accomplishing anything consists of three men, two of whom are absent." A "committee" can serve in an advisory status, but final decisions should be left to an individual, with responsibility for such decisions resting squarely upon his shoulders.

5-90

Here's a nice example:

My 12th grade english teacher (a very smart woman and a great teacher) made less than $50K a year, and she has been teaching for - IIRC - 20+ years.

The head football coach who taught some BS class (total body I believe) just to stay a coach, made an estimated $93K last year just from the school.

THAT is bullshit.

 

[5-90]

Here's a nice example:

My 12th grade english teacher (a very smart woman and a great teacher) made less than $50K a year, and she has been teaching for - IIRC - 20+ years.

The head football coach who taught some BS class (total body I believe) just to stay a coach, made an estimated $93K last year just from the school.

THAT is bullshit.

No argument at all here - and what is it with this sports fixation we've got as a people? Am I the only one to think it's both odd and absurd that "heroes" these days are people who just play a game? Whatever happened to Charles Beckwith, Audie Murphy, or Roy Benavidez? THERE are some people who should be called heroes - not some damn "sportsman."

Oh - they're not "athletes" - an "athlete" is a physical generalist. Someone who runs triathlons, pentathlons, or decathlons is an athlete - a football player or a basketball player is not. Sorry, but that's not my definition (I just happen to agree with it...) I say, if we're going to speak English here, let's speak it properly, hm?

5-90

 

[Starscream]

No argument at all here - and what is it with this sports fixation we've got as a people? Am I the only one to think it's both odd and absurd that "heroes" these days are people who just play a game? Whatever happened to Charles Beckwith, Audie Murphy, or Roy Benavidez? THERE are some people who should be called heroes - not some damn "sportsman."

Oh - they're not "athletes" - an "athlete" is a physical generalist. Someone who runs triathlons, pentathlons, or decathlons is an athlete - a football player or a basketball player is not. Sorry, but that's not my definition (I just happen to agree with it...) I say, if we're going to speak English here, let's speak it properly, hm?

5-90

x2, that and music artists/film actors/socialites. America is very backwards in that aspect. Paris Hilton should definitely not be the person young girls are taking queues from.

 

[Sniggs]

I feel the criminal should have the same 'taste' of fear and terror he or she gave their victims.

Agreed. Make them live in Massachusetts.

 

[Starscream]

Agreed. Make them live in Massachusetts.

party1:

 

[5-90]

x2, that and music artists/film actors/socialites. America is very backwards in that aspect. Paris Hilton should definitely not be the person young girls are taking queues from.

Nope. Jessica Lynch may be a better example...

Of course, as we lose track of who "heroes" should really be, we tend to lose our grit and fortitude as well. No wonder I couldn't marry a woman my age - most of them are, simply put, airheads (and the ones that aren't were already taken...)

Last time I looked, an act of "heroism" was defined as an act which would benefit others, taken at the risk of life and limb. "Role model" may be a better description of the people kids look up to these days, but note that "role model" does not automatically carry a positive connotation. All it means is "someone that one tries to emulate in word and deed."

I just wonder how much longer we're going to last. As us "dinosaurs" die off, we're losing our inventors, risk takers, and other truly positive influences. Gawd help us...

5-90

 

[RichP]

No argument at all here - and what is it with this sports fixation we've got as a people? Am I the only one to think it's both odd and absurd that "heroes" these days are people who just play a game? Whatever happened to Charles Beckwith, Audie Murphy, or Roy Benavidez? THERE are some people who should be called heroes - not some damn "sportsman."

Oh - they're not "athletes" - an "athlete" is a physical generalist. Someone who runs triathlons, pentathlons, or decathlons is an athlete - a football player or a basketball player is not. Sorry, but that's not my definition (I just happen to agree with it...) I say, if we're going to speak English here, let's speak it properly, hm?

5-90

I have to laugh, remember the WWII movies where they ask sports questions to prove your'e an american ? Man, I'd be dead, I have not watched a professional sports game in over 29 years, college games, sometimes, took my kids to soccer when they played but thats about it... the last major sports players I remember were yogi bera, mickey mantle, roger maris, willy mays, then I turned 10 and that was it...

 

[Matthew Currie]

Common wisdom says that capital punishment is a deterrent. So, a question for the Texans among us: since 1976, it seems that Texas has executed 369 people, nearly 4 times as many as its closest rival, Virginia, and over a third of the total executions in the United states during that time. So far this year, over half the executions in this country have taken place in Texas. The rate does not seem to be in decline.

So my obvious question is, if capital punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, why is the rate still so high in Texas? Is Texas really the Sodom of the United States, or is capital punishment perhaps just not working?

 

[WB9YZU]

So my obvious question is, if capital punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, why is the rate still so high in Texas? Is Texas really the Sodom of the United States, or is capital punishment perhaps just not working?

Poor logic?

Texas, a death penalty state has a murder rate of 6.1/100K
Michigan, which has no death penalty has 6.4/100K
On the other end of the spectum is Utah
Utah has a death penalty and a murder rate of 1.9/100K. Far below the National average.
New Hampshire(with) has the same low rate as ND(without).
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169#MRord

Here is an interesting article:
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/02/20/news/regional/b0b306ad6539f08a87256e3f007bd85a.txt
It get's better toward the bottom.

Arguing against the bill, Sen. Dave Thomas, a Republican, said media circuses are "exactly what we want" in executions.

"We don't want these sentences to be carried out in the dead of night so no one knows," he said, adding that lethal injection was painless and "the easy way out."

"I just think we're making it too easy on the convicted killers," he said.

 

[Beej]

This isn't solely directed at you Matthew, but we need to all keep in mind that punishment per se is a reinforcer of behaviour, not a method of extinguishment.

Very little crime is actually deterred by the punishment that is associated with it. If it were, crime would not exist. Punishment is more about the establishment of a sense of justice that we seek when we feel we as individuals or societies are wronged. (see Plato)

There is tons of research out there on this. I'm not saying punishments are wrong, but the idea that they deter people from committing crimes is moderately fallacious. Take murders - the majority of murders are committed by people who know each other intimately or very well. A large percentage are opportunistic, not planned, and occur in the heat of the moment in a highly emotionally-charged situation. As our emotionality increases, we experience a like increase in physical agitation; dilation of blood vessels, increased heart rate and blood pressure, increased epinephrine (Adrenalin) production, etc. At the same time that our physical body is amping up, our ability to rationally think, comprehend complex considerations, make accurate judgements and retain insight go down accordingly. It is almost always in these moments that murders occur amongst 'normal' people. When we calm, we experience remorse, etc. and are able to think more clearly about the situation. These events represent the vast amount of murders that occur on a day to day basis. Consideration of which punishment will be faced generally doesn't even enter into the equation. This type of predictable escalated behaviour is exactly why gun control legislation works. If you don't have access to an immediatly lethal weapon in the heat of the moment, the likelihood of a lethal act occuring is vastly reduced.

The situations described above however, do not explain or account for murders committed by persons who are incapable of empathy, remorse or identification with the victim of their crimes. For these individuals, killing is basically sport. Along these lines too are murders that occur as a result of groupthink. The individual loses their sense of individuality in the group. This is why a murderous gang of thugs can be made up of a group of persons who are generally not 'evil' (for want of a better term), but perform acts of unspeakable evil as a group, since there occurs an existential separation of self from act.

There are many more subtleties that enter into these behavioural equations, but suffice it to say that punishments associated with crimes are generally not deterrents, but rather methods for helping us feel better knowing that they 'got what they deserved'.

Just a few pennies for thought...

 

[XJ Jeepin Girl]

ok...lets play....John Wayne Gacey kills your son. He has killed many others as well, and show absolutly no signs of remorse, and laughs at you in the court room saying he would gladly do it again, and kill you in the same incident.

You'd do nothing? You'd sit there, passivly and say go ahead? I think not.

Hipocritical of the government that funds abortions all across our land, and in other countries, and then lets convicted murderers live in jail, with all of the amenities they get, until they die of old age...while the families of the loved ones who have been killed do not get to see true punishment bought to those that have commited the most hanious of crimes against those who were the most important people in their lives?

Someone touches my son or daughter, or any other family memeber and I tell you what I tell everyone else.....

It will be a cold day in hell that I do not get revenge....I don't care if I have to go through all kinds of security to get to that kind of bastard. (Hey 5-90...I'd get past you too... )

I'd lose my life in the attempt to get to them if thats what it took.

Standing idly by why others are slaughter against their will is not permissable.

I suppose if we would have sent cookies, and valentines day cards to all of those killed in the Serbian wars, they would have stopped?

I guess in your opinion Genocide is fine.

The right to self defense, and the right to defend those who cannot defend themselves are of the highest priority. AND it is the governments first and formost job to protect its citizens from those who would do us harm.

They cannot come back and exact revenge from the grave. And that, young lady, is exactly where they belong.

Don't fire me up...it will only get ugly.

My opinion was simple. But thanks for attacking everyone. :kissyou:

 

[rocklandxjer]

more like a few dollars lol
very well spoken and good point, however i also believe that it is not only a way to show others that killing is wrong and those who do it will be justly prosecuted, but a way for us humans, who are animals if we have all forgotten, to protect ourselves. a female tiger will fight to the death to protect herself and her young, even against others of her kind. i dont believe humans are any different, i think that the death penalty is a way that us humans have used to protect ourselfs from the truly evil and violent.

if a bein to society is eliminated, there is no reason to worry, that is the only time people feel secure, when they know that there is absolutely no threat. you also have to admit though, the thought lingers in everyones mind, even if they are in enough of a rage that they are willing to kill someone, they know-have always known- that killing has huge reprocussions. those willing to kill the innocent, without remorse, should be eliminated on the spot.

of course accidents happen, and those people should be punished for allowing themselves to undertake such an act, but killed. those who kill for a six pack, or brutally murder some one (one shot can be the result of a raging fury, but one has a enough time to think about what they are doing when they gag some one, then drive, dump them, kill them and burn them.... come on) SHOULD be put to death, as they have no reason to be around others and possibly cause harm to them.

all in all i think that the people who believe that "lethal injection" of all things is cruel and unusual should take a walk in someone elses shoes, some one who has had some one dear to them murdered cold bloodedly and see what sort of evil things they wish upon the murderer. show some sympathy for the victims, not the predators

<<rant over>>

 

[XJ Dreamin']

Here is an interresting find.

I like the link near the upper right: "Return to Death Row Page."

I don't know why, but that's funny.