dealerships

[jneary]

frequently while reading posts on this site i see the term "stealerships" being used. the dealer has nothing to gain by ripping customers off. they dont just hire the average joe to fix your car. sure they can cost more for the services, but that money goes to pay for specialty tools , factory training, etc. there are many times we see customers come in after spending a small fortune at the independent garages, to get their problem fixed. often it isnt anything but a small part, or just raplacing the aftermarket junk that was just installed. a lot of the independents will replace a number of parts for just one complaint, hoping one of them will correct it. and yeah some of the parts can be more costly, but they have to back them up for 12 months or 12,000 miles. what aftermarket shop does that. oh wel just had to vent. go easy on us.we need to make a living too.

 

[G.Q. Jeeper]

I understand your point, I do not use the term personally, but I do understand why some do.

There are scrupulous dealerships out there and I guess when people do cross them it is costly. The auto industry is very lucative and there are some people in it that are shady, just like some comsumers that are oportunists.

My complaint is that some parts in comparasons is outragous in prices, take for example (I live in Canada) my T-Case is shot, I can get it rebuilt at a aftermarket shop for $500.00+labour = about $675 in total, thats R&R with warrenty. Now take my beloved Exhaust Manifold, there are none at the wreckers (that are any good, suprise suprise) and the dealership wants $869.00 with out the new bolts and gaskets and labour, so the price is well over $1000 CND when all is said and done. Chrysler knows the factory manifolds are junk, and sells better ones at a outrageous mark up, in comparisons to the T-Case, which is aftermarket.

That is my experience so far, as for others I am sure there are more examples, and it goes both ways, however the industry has done a poor job at making itself more customer focused, and trustworthy, just my opinion.

GQJeeper

 

[jneary]

the dealership doesnt control the prices. we use the labor time guides just like any other shop and sell the parts at manufacturer prices. i guess thats the price of quality parts, as far as the exhaust manifold goes, if the vendor didnt think it would last he would provide a better product. some times it takes a while for problems like this to happen. and not all go bad. i have 187,000 miles on mt 89 and original manifold. fortunately the manufacturer can find their week spots and redesign the part so it would last longer. if they didnt care they wouldn't redesign it.

 

[AZ Jeff]

jneary, I understand your point. I think part of the issue is two things:

1. not ALL dealers are equally competent. Some of them really have bumbling idiots in the shop.
2. most people assume that "parts is parts", and wonder why a frammus valve from the dealer costs $130, but they can get a Chinese made copy at Cheapo-Auto for $50. They assume (not necessarily accurately) that the dealer is "ripping them off" for equivalent parts.

Bottom line--there are good dealers and bad. If you find a good one, and buy parts and service from him, then you are not likely to refer to him as a "stealership".

 

[jneary]

maybe its just me. i would rather pay a little extra to get factory trained techs and factory parts than aftermarket junk. even being a tech, i take my lincoln to the lincoln dealer and my wifes trans am to the pontiac dealer. besides they keep the history on the vehicles in case any warranty discrepecies come up. do the independents keep your records?

 

[G.Q. Jeeper]

No argunment there with the prices and labour agreements, I know its the maufacturer that has alot to do with it, however it becomes the dealership that wears the blame when things go wrong, and thats why when some mention "stealerships" they are complaining about Chrysler/GM/Ford/Honda etc. corporate issues and some are complaining about management staff at the actual dealership, which in case if that is the issue, and it was not resolved, they should try another dealership, no question about it.

As for my exhuast issue, this is were I got a bit upset as a consumer, my XJ has about 130,000 miles, and the manifold is totally dead, I check all the weckers in my area and more, all say the same thing, they are no good, and they do not sell them as the have a very high failure rate, and most come back under thier warrenty services. I am stuck with the aftermarkets, Borla, Headman...etc...or factory. If this is such a problem with a certain part, why can't Chrysler offer this part at a very discounted rate?, I know its all legal and all if they admit fault (god forbid you are responsible for your actions) but why not sell it as a loss leader? They (Chrysler) of all automakers need to improve thier image and need to be better than the competition, just look at Lexus and Infinity, if DC had forsight and good P.R in mind, they would just sell things that exceed industry/consumer standars, and not let things slide,and let the dealership wear the brunt of the problems.

GQ

 

[G.Q. Jeeper]

Just to add a point. I do have a Chrysler dealership that I do buy parts off of, they guy drives a Jeep, and gives me great prices whenever he can, plus he does help out with techical work too, I am totally satisfied there.

I for the most part get my work done at a local garage, he keeps all records of work done on my Jeep and stuff, plus he too give a one year twelve thousand mile warrenty, again very satisfied.

No complaints in general, execpt for that Exhuast manifold...LOL


GQ

 

[XJ91]

From another Canadian.

I have three dealerships all within 20 minutes drive.
A while back I needed a fuel pump for my '91XJ.
1) Closest dealer to me $260.00 CAD
2) Second closest and one I do buy parts from as the tech is a bud of
mine $260.00CAD
3) a good 20 minute drive $299.00CAD.

I ask why he sells the pump at that such a high price price, his response was. "It's a dealer part, I don't set the prices." I say why are they cheaper at so & so Chrysler? He says then why did I call him? Like WTF?

For the most part if I need a part that is reliable I will shop around but most time purchase from the dealer BUT install it myself.

 

[8Mud]

I guess Jeep Europe is a somewhat a different animal, than Jeep USA, but it may be, that policy is moving East to West.
Took the Jeep in for a seat belt recall, deicded to have an oil change while I was at it. Ran synthetic, was told, synthetic (at the time, was a special order item). Brought my own oil. Get a bill for $365, they decided I needed new plugs and a tune up, the oil that was in my Jeep, was green (don´t know where my mobile 1 ended up) and the seat belt, was still stuck.
Dealer Number two, took the Jeep in for a front end alignment. They phoned the wife and said it needed a tie rod end. I said show me, nothing wrong with the tie rod. Dealer informed me they had a pedigree from Jeep and who was I to tell them anything. Refused to give me my keys back and said that the vehicle was too dangerous to drive. I used my extra set of keys and drove it to the Auto Club for an inspection, tie rod was OK.
Dealer three, went in to buy a new Jeep, had my working clothes on. Left me standing there for an hour and a half, with $20,000 in my pocket. Ignored the heck out of me, guess I looked poor. Jeep is trying to be an up market product, like Mercedes.
Dealer four, sat at the parts counter for over an hour, guy came in and said he would be back after lunch.
Dealer Five, finally found a guy that would take care of me. Damiler closed him down and moved the Jeeps to the Mercedes lot.
Dealer six, was informed the parts on the shelves were for the in house Mechanics, customer walk-ins were all special order, pre paid. Almost exactly half the parts, I´ve gotten, have been wrong and the refund policy for hard parts, concessionar parts and electrical parts are all different. Have some parts sitting on the shelf, I´ll probably never use.
Dealer seven, called for the recall list on the wifes, 95, was informed there are no recalls, for vehicles with over 50,000 miles.
I´m not even going to tell you guys about a special order, XJ. That got built with two pages of extras, lost in cyber space, that I got stuck with. Got a $1000 rebate and an offer of the extras being installed locally, for the factory price. Which wasn´t really bad on paper, but I didn´t fancy, trying to rebuild a brand new XJ, at the local dealership. uke:

 

[DharmaDog]

Another thing to consider is that generally people post about bad experiences with dealerships because it is frustrating to deal with them sometimes, but rarely do people post about good experiences with dealerships.

Having said that, most of my dealings with dealerships have been less than satisfactory. Recently I took my Jeep to the dealer for the backfiring/hesitation issue that you in fact help me solve. Thanks very much, BTW. They charged me several hundred dollars for a glorified tune-up that had absolutely no impact on the problem. They insisted the O2 sensors were bad and wanted another $425 to replace those (I didn't go for that.) You helped me determine it was a simple fuse that had blown. It makes me think that they just don't really care about the customer or are not willing to try and solve the problem. It leaves the impression that they just want to throw parts at a problem until the problem or the customer goes away.

I had an Acura for a while and they were perhaps the worst. I had a Saturn back when they came out and they were by far the best. They at least acted like they gave a crap about the customer. I blew my engine racing my Saturn SC2. I admitted I blew it racing and they repaired it no questions asked. They even flew engineers/technicians out from their HQ in Spring Hill, TN to rebuild it and replaced stock parts with upgraded parts that were not in production yet.

Ford was OK, not particularly good or bad. Jeep has been just slightly better than Acura. Three weeks after I got my Jeep in 1997, a Dodge truck shaved the front of my Cherokee in a parking lot. The dealer took the A/C system out for whatever reason during the repair and gave the Jeep back without reinstalling it. That was in December. I didn't realize I didn't have A/C until April. When I came back they instantly knew what I was talking about like they were just waiting for me to come back. How about picking up the phone and letting me know?

I've just come to expect lousy service from large companies. They don't have to be car dealers. Cable, phone and computer companies are worse.

But don't take others' bad experiences with dealers as a reflection on you.

 

[Kejtar]

maybe its just me. i would rather pay a little extra to get factory trained techs and factory parts than aftermarket junk. even being a tech, i take my lincoln to the lincoln dealer and my wifes trans am to the pontiac dealer. besides they keep the history on the vehicles in case any warranty discrepecies come up. do the independents keep your records?

You just opened up a whole can of worms. I will tell you this: in this day and age there is no pride in one's worksmanship. Everyone wants to make a quick buck and that's it.
Dealer parts? A local dealer at first used to charge me an arm and a leg. Then when they found out that I know what I'm talking abotu and that I bring them some business and even helped one of their sales guys answer some quetsion for a customer (long story) they started to charge me less. Now I have an "in" and I pay even less and still not all the parts are worth getting through a dealership. I will buy there things like CPS, TPS and so on, but for example taillights can be had for late model XJ's through quadratec for about a third of what the dealership charges!! And I bet you money there is no difference between the two if you compare side by side.

 

[Atl XJ]

I'll stick up for my local dealer I deal with. I've never dealt with their service department since I havent had any major issues with my Jeep and I do my maintenance myself, but their parts guys are very knowledgeable and very friendly to deal with. Their sales people are surprisingly knowledgeable and most of the people at their dealership actually drive Jeeps and love Jeeps. I have also dealt with their collision center and they did top notch work.

I also wanted to add that I think its very cool of you Jneary to come on here and help us diagnose our problems. I understand that it must be pretty frustrating for you to constantly read people bashing the dealers.

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Jneary I assume my comment about dealerships is the one that pushed you over the edge. I really probably wouldn't have any problem with them except for the one here in Des Moines just sucks. My whole family has dealt with them at one time or another and they have screwed us all, and consequently they keep doing it. All other dealerships in Des Moines are fine except them but the problem for me is if I dont want to use them the other closest Jeep dealer is like 40 minutes away. Really not meaning to rag on dealerships its just that the plain and simple fact is that this one sucks.
My .02-Collin

 

[imma honky]

While I have not gone to mu local dealership for service, I have gotten a few parts. Were they high? Yes. But did it work? Yes. They guys in my parts dept are awsome. I'm usually in and out withing 5 minutes. And as for parts cost difference. YES, there is a price difference b/t dealerships. We have 3 chry/co dealerships within 30 miles. I called each one up for price quotes. The part i was ordering was a replacement CCV tube (both parts). The price difference was about 30 bucks b/t the lowest/highest. Can you explain this? Welp, anyways. I have no quarms with my local dealership, except the sales people are very shady, which is why i would never buy a vehicle from them. But their parts people know their stuff and are straight up guys.

 

[Cottontail]

Jeepguy1990---are you talking about Bud Mulcehey? My family has driven rom Iowa City just to buy from them. They also have a lot of dealing with "Jeep Outdoor Club of Central Iowa." It appears that they do a lot of sponsorships for their activities. (www.jocci.com) While I have no personal dealings with them, just what I have read from the above website, they seem to know what they are doing.

That is interesting. On a side topic, there is a Hansen Dodge I believe in DSM as well--on Ingersoll I think. It's been awhile since I lived in DSM. His son or brother owns Hansen Chrysler/Jeep here in Nashville. They have been 100% top-notch for us to work with. I don't think they ever did any work on the XJ, but do all the ZJ work for us.

Good luck!

 

[8Mud]

Wasn´t bashing Jneary, appreciate the help, he has given me. Mainly the two points I wanted to make, is there are good dealerships and bad dealerships. And when you find a good one, cherish them, they seem to be a rare breed.
Second, Daimler has there way of doing things. Don´t believe things are going to change for the better. If Daimler institutes, policies that are normal here, prices for everything are going up and dealer independance, is going to become minimal.

 

[Eagle]

jneary, there are "dealers," and then there are "stealers." IMHO most of the Chrysler dealers who now also sell Jeeps fall in the "stealer" category. They sell vehicles like commodities, and their mechanics (don't even like to call them that, but I sure won't call them "technicians") probably can't fix a wheelbarrow. These are the shops whose parts departments can't find the right parts, or they tell you it's been discontinued, so you drive to the next dealer and his parts guy says "No problem, it'll be here at 8:00 tomorrow morning."

Sales dork at one dealer was trying to talk me into trading in my XJ for a new model. One of the features of the new model he was touting was "owl" tires. That's right ... "owl," like the bird that hunts at night. Not "outline white letter" or "oh double-u ell" ... "owl." It took me several minutes to figure out that he wasn't talking about a new brand of tires. Once I got it, I just walked away.

The same dealer talked me into doing the tech bulletin to remobe the C101 connector on my '88. Service manager told me it would improve gas mileage, eliminate long crank times, eliminate "early morning drive-off stall," and improve emissions. They socked me over $500 to do it. It didn't improve ANY of the things he told me it would. When I asked him later, he denied ever saying it would improve anything.

A week or two afrer having this done, my XJ failed an emissions test. They replaced the O2 sensor and I passed. They told me it wasn't bad when they worked on it. Looking back at previous emission test reports, I could see that it had started to go bad two years prior. They just didn't check anything after they did the C101 job.

Later I read that there was a recall on the original O2 sensors for the 88s. I asked, and they said well, yeah, we can probably get back the money you paid for that. Months went by and I never heard anything. Finally I went in and asked. "Oh ... didn't anyone call you? Yeah, we got your money back." They weren't going to tell me, they were going to pocket the money unless I remembered to pursue it.

Asked the service manager at another dealership about switching to synthetic oil. He got this horrified look on his face and said "You don't want to do that! It builds up too much pressure on the highway. It'll blow all the seals out of the engine!"

There are some situations where factory parts are better than aftermarket. For others, they are identical. I try to differentiate. As to service ... there are five people I will allow to touch my Jeeps other than myself: my brother (and I'm starting to worry about him); my racing friend, Joe; my friends Erich and Chris; and the shop foreman at the dealership where I now buy parts. I've seen the work some of their other "techs" do, and I don't want them near my Jeeps. And this is probably the BEST Jeep dealer in Connecticut.

 

[ryurabbit]

I am a parts manager at a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler dealership in CA. I work very hard to provide my customers with the best experience possible. Several things I have noted over the years.

1. Customers are usually unhappy when they get here because there vehicle is broken. (I actually have customers with no problems come in just to talk because I am such an avid 4wheeler, Especially the XJ crowd.)

2. Customers expect the same part prices at the dealership as the aftermarket. Parts is Parts is there attitude. I have actually shown people the difference in quality and they storm off to yell at there local auto parts store guys because they told them they have the "same" parts cheaper.

3. Customers are largely uninformed and already believe they will be ripped off before they actually get here. I have had customers say wow thats all for that, and another customer with the same part says holy crap thats exspensive.

4. (Pay particular attention to this one) Dealerships are permitted to charge whatever they want for a part to the consumer. YOUR ATTITUDE AND DEMEANER WILL AFFECT YOUR PRICE! There is a standard price matrix set up by Chrysler and we can discount or add as dealership policy permits. You as a consumer will usually get "list" or higher price. If you are a regular and buy parts from me regularily, You will get lower prices.

5. Some dealerships are better than others. Look for the dealerships were the turnover is low. Same guys for long periods of time usually points to happy employees, experienced people and a willingness to go the extra mile with customers. Be advised that this holds true for individual departments more than a whole dealership. My dealerships has been through 3 service managers in 5 years, and 6 sales managers in 9 years. My parts dept employees have been here 11,10,10 and 4. We have only been open 11 years!

I hope this helps some of you to understand and I'm not just Hasta

 

[8Mud]

RYURABBIT have heard some good things, from Prerun93 about your help. Word gets around, even across continants and oceans.

 

[Kejtar]

RYURABBIT have heard some good things, from Prerun93 about your help. Word gets around, even across continants and oceans.

Yup... Rabbit is a great guy to deal with.