Dana 30 Build?

[cal]

Agreed. I've already done the WJ master/booster swap and gained only moderate benefit. Mine being an 89 with ZERO aftermarket pads available, my next brake upgrade will be to later model knuckles so I have a choice of decent pads as you've suggested. Unless you can point me to a performance pad for the 89. I've had no luck except OEM.

Hit any junkyard. Grab knuckles off of a later model. Get new calipers for the same year/era the knuckles came from.

They will bolt on to your jeep using your existing unit bearings and rotors. Shouldnt cost you more than $100 with new calipers, and then you can run any performance pad you'd like.

 

[zachandandy]

I love how guys with $3-4k in their 30's want to argue against buying a 60. I don't care how trussed, sleeved, gusseted, full case lockered, rcv'd, wj braked and cryo treated your 30 is, I'd still bet a stock $500 ball joint 60 is stronger, and not all that much heavier with all the metal thrown at the wet noddle to keep it half way together.

 

[rockclimber]

Agreed. I've already done the WJ master/booster swap and gained only moderate benefit. Mine being an 89 with ZERO aftermarket pads available, my next brake upgrade will be to later model knuckles so I have a choice of decent pads as you've suggested. Unless you can point me to a performance pad for the 89. I've had no luck except OEM.

A big brake kit from black magic/vanco or WJ knuckles will be a world of difference.

 

[rockclimber]

You said earlier the problem with the 44 was the balljoints. Now its the ujoints?

The u-joints on big bird are more than 10 years old. 10 of those years being on 37's..

I never said the balljoints were the problem.

And you have CTMs correct? At 500$ you are quickly reaching the cost of that 60 and you're still not as strong.

 

[jeeperjohn]

I love how guys with $3-4k in their 30's want to argue against buying a 60. I don't care how trussed, sleeved, gusseted, full case lockered, rcv'd, wj braked and cryo treated your 30 is, I'd still bet a stock $500 ball joint 60 is stronger, and not all that much heavier with all the metal thrown at the wet noddle to keep it half way together.

I think the biggest reason a D30 ends up being built way up is that most people can't afford to throw the kind of money required for a D60 at their rig all at one time. It is much more managable for most people to do one upgrade at a time over a while and end up with a pretty strong axle in the end. Granted, if you want to run tires bigger than 35" you end up getting a one ton axle eventually because a D30 rarely holds up to tires bigger than 35" for very long. Yeah, there have been those who have run 37's or even bigger on a D30 for a long time but driving style has a lot to do with it as well as terrain wheeled and other factors. I personally think it makes more sense to beef up a D30 if you never plan to run bigger than 35" tires. What may be the right choice for one person may not work well for another.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Re: Re: Dana 30 Build?

A big brake kit from black magic/vanco or WJ knuckles will be a world of difference.

Even going to the late model single piece xj knuckle and brakes makes a difference.

 

[MikeMc]

Even going to the late model single piece xj knuckle and brakes makes a difference.

This sounds like the route for my budget. Thanks all.

PS sorry for the semi thread hijack.

 

[cal]

I never said the balljoints were the problem.

And you have CTMs correct? At 500$ you are quickly reaching the cost of that 60 and you're still not as strong.

$1000 to buy a front 60.
$800 to convert it to 5 lug (so you aren't buying a rear end too)
$300 in brackets (assuming you do it all yourself)
$200 in steering (assuming you do it all yourself)


And thats leaving you with a stock geared full width dana 60 with an open diff and 30 spline stubs.

.. vs $500 for a pair of ujoints that don't break.

 

[zachandandy]

$800 to save a weaker narrower rear end or $100 for a 14 bolt? $300 for brackets, the ballistic xj bracket set is $110 you still need upper ca bracket, but the factory upper is made of aluminum foil anyway. 35's or bigger on stock steering, you needed to replace that anyway. I also doubt that you put ctm's in stock front shafts, so there's another $500. I know a lot of people, myself included, waste a bunch off net trying to make the 30 work. I now try to save them the trouble. I built a 30, then a 44. I've paid for a built 60 and then some, and yet I'm still running a 44. Other things people fail to consider, to fight ring gear deflection you need to run a full case locker in the 30 at $500-$1000. A 60 with a lunchbox or even welded because you have locking hubs n can get away with it $20-$300. No need to truss it for the weight of an xj unless you plan on jumping it. To build a 60 with the same parts will cost a few hundred dollars more, but to build a 30 with anywhere near the strength of a stock 60 will cost thousands of dollars. I will never spend money on a 30 again.

 

[cal]

$800 to save a weaker narrower rear end or $100 for a 14 bolt? $300 for brackets, the ballistic xj bracket set is $110 you still need upper ca bracket, but the factory upper is made of aluminum foil anyway. 35's or bigger on stock steering, you needed to replace that anyway. I also doubt that you put ctm's in stock front shafts, so there's another $500. I know a lot of people, myself included, waste a bunch off net trying to make the 30 work. I now try to save them the trouble. I built a 30, then a 44. I've paid for a built 60 and then some, and yet I'm still running a 44. Other things people fail to consider, to fight ring gear deflection you need to run a full case locker in the 30 at $500-$1000. A 60 with a lunchbox or even welded because you have locking hubs n can get away with it $20-$300. No need to truss it for the weight of an xj unless you plan on jumping it. To build a 60 with the same parts will cost a few hundred dollars more, but to build a 30 with anywhere near the strength of a stock 60 will cost thousands of dollars. I will never spend money on a 30 again.

I'm not saying don't run a 60, and I'm not saying to run a 30.

I'm saying you aren't going to build a 60 to replace the 30 for $500.

Compare apples to apples. Many of you guys aren't.

For what its worth, I currently have one dana 30, two dana 44's and one 44/60 hybrid.. I'm pretty unbiased here, and just trying to offer accurate information.

I see a lot of crap being spewed here by several people who have never actually built a 44 or 60 about just how cheap it is, when its not.

 

[MoparManiac]

I have to side with Cal here. Even though he would run 37s on his D30 .

I've had a fairly decent D30, decent HP44, and now a decent D60.

The big save with the 44 was the bolt pattern. All I had to do was buy chromo shafts for my rear 44 and bam now I'm 5x5.5.

My current D60, while not a money pit, wouldnt have made sense at the time.

 

[rockclimber]

I have to side with Cal here. Even though he would run 37s on his D30 .

I've had a fairly decent D30, decent HP44, and now a decent D60.

The big save with the 44 was the bolt pattern. All I had to do was buy chromo shafts for my rear 44 and bam now I'm 5x5.5.

My current D60, while not a money pit, wouldnt have made sense at the time.

right. but how long can you run 37"s or bigger on those 44s? really you should be running a 60 rear at least for a 37", the R&P of the rear 44 will last for a while, but not nearly as well as a 60. and a 14bolt is even cheaper and stronger. and at that point the bolt pattern issue is mute.


37"s are really a bastard size. any drivetrain that is built to handle them in any situation can handle 39"s and will suffer from the lack of ground clearance of the 37"s

thats why I don't think building a 44 front is worth it. you can build a D30 to handle 35"s within the same price range as a front 44 and you don't have to deal with finding the axle.


oh and Cal... CTMS do break.

 

[zachandandy]

I agree that building or even buying a 60 is not cheap. Properly building a 30 to be reliable on 35" tires requires more money than it costs to put a stock 60 under an xj. If I were running a lighter 35 and had no plans of going bigger, I still wouldn't build a 30. You can't argue apples to apples when comparing a 60 to a 30. A cryo treated r&p in a 30 is still weaker than a stock 60 r&p. if you were to build them the same, trusses, sleeves, full case lockers, treated gears, rcvs, aftermarket cover, etc. the 30 might hold up to 37's and would probably cost $1500 less. The 60 would be overkill on 42's and that's why a stock 60 is a more apples to apples comparison to a fully built 30.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

I love how guys with $3-4k in their 30's want to argue against buying a 60. I don't care how trussed, sleeved, gusseted, full case lockered, rcv'd, wj braked and cryo treated your 30 is, I'd still bet a stock $500 ball joint 60 is stronger, and not all that much heavier with all the metal thrown at the wet noddle to keep it half way together.

Assume much? :wierd:

I've spent a little more than $1300 on my turdy thirdy, and that's including the wilwood brakes, 4.56 gears, truetrac, truss, chromos...etc.

I would do it again in a heartbeat as well. Why? because it's more than enough beef for my little 33's. Of course this is web wheeling but I have beat the ever living piss out of it and wait for it... nothings happened. I've even had more issues with my 8.25 than my 30.

I never did end up weighing my axle but I sure as hell would like to put $ on that bet. All I can say is I have moved plenty of bare 60's, and my built 30 is a feather in comparison. I'll take small light and nimble any day of the week with the trails I run. :thumbup:

EVERYTHING would be different however if I wanted to run a 39" tire, tube the crap out of it, and trailer it to every trail. My point is... $ for $ a D60 is not for everyone.

 

[jrowell]

I only have experience with my 30. Been wheeling it with 33s and now 35s for over 13 years... Half the time with stock shafts. Broke a lockright/carrier once. That's it. Never a shaft (did spit a ujoint cap once) never broke the weak 488s. It just keeps chugging along trying to keep up with all these damn buggies. Guess i have $500 in the Detroit (won in raffle) and $500 in chromo shafts. No 44 or 60 in my future... Unless my 30 totally blows up. Fingers crossed! Just my .02 individual results may very.

 

[Vanimal]

Its way cheaper to build a 44 than it is a 60 - to put a 60 under an XJ, you have $800+ to convert it to 5x5.5 or you have to go to an 8 lug rear end at the same time, not to mention the trouble of physically fitting a 60 under an XJ.

44 does sound like the answer here.

sorry, but i pretty much completely disagree.
i have less into my d60 and 14 bolt than i did in just the front d44 alone. yea, it's 8 lug, but who gives a shit.
fitting it under an xj was absolutely no trouble either. i know i have at least as much (probably more) uptravel than you and i still don't come close to hitting anything.

 

[cal]

sorry, but i pretty much completely disagree.
i have less into my d60 and 14 bolt than i did in just the front d44 alone. yea, it's 8 lug, but who gives a shit.
fitting it under an xj was absolutely no trouble either. i know i have at least as much (probably more) uptravel than you and i still don't come close to hitting anything.

You aren't the average member Dan, being a professional machinist with your own shop, and able to build a lot of custom stuff with little to no cost.

*I* couldn't have pulled off what you did in your budget, and I do like to think I am above average capable..

 

[cal]

right. but how long can you run 37"s or bigger on those 44s?

You keep asking that question, and keep ignoring people who say they have been doing it for 10 years or more.

37"s are really a bastard size. any drivetrain that is built to handle them in any situation can handle 39"s and will suffer from the lack of ground clearance of the 37"s

Thats true if you jump strait to a 60 and 14 bolt, but if you man up and go less redneck, you can do a 44/9, 44/60, or 44/44 and run those 37's all day long without losing that ground clearance..

thats why I don't think building a 44 front is worth it. you can build a D30 to handle 35"s within the same price range as a front 44 and you don't have to deal with finding the axle.

Because finding an F150 in a junkyard is so hard to do? Thats the weakest arguing point you have made yet.

oh and Cal... CTMS do break.

But not as often as RCV's do!

 

[zachandandy]

Boostwerks, here is no way you bought all those parts for $1300 new, just chromos and an auburn would run over $1000 before tax and shipping. If we are talking building a 60 with used parts, it can be done super cheap as well. For 33's or even average 35's, yes a 30 is a decent axle. Run big, wide, bead locked 35's or bigger and staring with a 60 will save you money. I have a pile of broken shafts, worn unit bearings, and gears missing teeth to prove it. Ctm's and chromoly shafts or rcvs will cost as much as it takes to get a 60 under an xj, and that's at normal market price. My brother-in-law bought an early 90's ford that had huge back DMV fees for $600, sold off the efi 460, trans, tcase and carcass for $1200 and we did his complete 1 ton swap, including brackets, histeer, and adapter Ujoint for the driveshafts for free. Yes he's running 4.10 with 37's, but its still better than 33's on 3.55's which tons of people do. He's been running it almost 3 years without a single drivetrain failure.

 

[rockclimber]

You keep asking that question, and keep ignoring people who say they have been doing it for 10 years or more.

my point was only that REAR 44s don't last that long on a 37" or bigger. sure some people make them work for a while, but why handicap yourself like that. and my ONLY point about that is that it makes your bolt pattern point a non-issue

Thats true if you jump strait to a 60 and 14 bolt, but if you man up and go less redneck, you can do a 44/9, 44/60, or 44/44 and run those 37's all day long without losing that ground clearance..

but why handicap yourself? you can't tell me that a 44 is the IDEAL axle to run on that tire. the chances of it breaking are higher than if you just got a 60, and you aren't limited.

I only reccomended tons because the OP was wishy washy about "I want 35"s and then 37"s in the long run. it would be cheaper for him in the long run to stay on the 30, run the 35"s, get tons and his 37"s or 39"s(what he REALLY will want once he wheels on 37"s for a while)

just my .02

Because finding an F150 in a junkyard is so hard to do? Thats the weakest arguing point you have made yet.

they go pretty quick around here. but fine. you still have spent just as much time dealing with the D44 as you have the 60... and you will spend just as much time on the fab work slinging it under.

But not as often as RCV's do!

I have no experience with RCVs.