D44 with Ford radius arms

i have the clayton setup and i think that most of the slack for flexing is in the upper axle bushings. All flexxed up, i can seee about 1/4" between the rubber and the sleeve in each bushing!

im a little confused: what is a wristed arm?
 
wristed radius arms

wristarm.jpg
 
Forgive me if I'm going too far at any point. I get a little too excited about this stuff. =)

To properly define wristed radius arms, you should really define radius arms first. It's basically a 4-link system where the frame mounts on each side have a coinciding mount point. It still has essentially 4 axle mounting points which, on a stock Ford radius arm setup, is effectively the top and bottom points of the c-clamp. Basically, one of the two links on each side locates the axle fore and aft and provides the arc in which the axle swings during flex, while the other link restricts twist (axle wrap, whatever you want to call it). For the sake of simplification, let's assume the lower links on each side are locating the axle while the upper links are restricting twist. Technically, you only need one of these anti-wrap links (and in fact, if the engine weren't where it was, you could probably have a very nice setup with one lower link on each side and one upper link right smack in the middle of the axle). Wristed radius arms have one of the four links removed in order to eliminate the bind from one side of the axle to the other as the two upper links both fight to keep the axle turned square to its respective radius arm. Wristed radius arms can take many forms, including the Rockkrawler "torque arm" setup and the Twister arm I posted a picture of a few posts up.

As farmermatt has very convincingly shown, there are other ways to reduce the bind. Long arms do NOT eliminate the bind, but they make it more or less moot. The problem, as he already mentioned is that you run into the same problem as with leaf springs: the longer (and hence, flexier) they are, the sloppier they are. In order to reduce the bind, you're multiplying the small amount of slop that already allows the system to flex. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just something to keep in mind. Wristed arms actually do eliminate the bind completely and do so without requiring any increase in radius arm length. The benefit here is that if you make it pinnable, you can go from totally unrestricted to as stiff or stiffer than stock. Sorta like a disconnect swaybar. There are drawbacks to everything, of course. A wristed radius arm relies on just one link to resist twist, so it better be plenty beefy. Also, there's a weird phenomenon that several in the TJ field have run into where the diff-side front tire will lift off the ground well before it should. This is due to torque loading on the side where the upper link is. If you can predict it, it's very easy to get used to, but it's a little odd.
 
What about shortening the late 70s HP ford 44 to waggy shaft length, is there still room to use the ford factory radius arm mounts? My concern is you wil bring the tire in closer to the radius arm and that it will rub on the radius arm when you are trying to turn.
 
Gary, this is where the 1/2 ton late 70's ford front end with the cast mounts shines. You don't have to change the distance between the "C" mount & tire at all. The axle tube itself is pressed in & welded on both sides of the mount on the passesnger side. all you have to do is cut the tube inside the mount. Take the cast mount & grind back the weld. Press the little piece of axle tube left in the mount out & press the mount back onto the narrowed housing. Weld up the mount & your good to go. We did this to my brother in laws early bronco. We narrowed it so that it would take an early bronco inner passenger side axle. I forgot what the overall measerments were, but it turned out a little wider than a stock EB. It was somewher in the 61-62" range WMS to WMS.

Matt
 
What about shortening the late 70s HP ford 44 to waggy shaft length, is there still room to use the ford factory radius arm mounts? My concern is you wil bring the tire in closer to the radius arm and that it will rub on the radius arm when you are trying to turn.

Thats jsut what Im doing..and am movig the radius mounts in too
 
Cool, that sounds like a pretty slick way Matt. How did the pinion angle vs caster work out? I suppose if its bad all you have to do is grind around the other sides mount or C and rotate it around. But the EB stock shafts are 260 jobbies right? I would probably run stock shafts till the extra coin came in for the warns and CTMS.

My goal/plan is to spend half a day in PNP get a ford hp axle swap knuckles with earlly waggy or chevy ones for the flat tops and throw in the shafts from a waggy for the right length. Then just pay for one PNP axle with all the good stuff, the trick will be finding everything in the same yard :) I suppose using a Waggy inner passenger side shaft would do the same thing as the earlly bronco inner.
 
I suppose using a Waggy inner passenger side shaft would do the same thing as the earlly bronco inner.

different lengths


But the EB stock shafts are 260 jobbies right? I would probably run stock shafts till the extra coin came in for the warns and CTMS.

only dana 30 EB came with small 260's teh dana 44 EB'c used 297
 
Matt, how far off are the Radius arm mounts on the late 70s half tons at full-width. I'm not interested in narrowing it. I'm planning full-widths under an MJ and I'd like to retain the ford style radius arms. Will it work? or are they too far outside the frame?? Thanks
 
Brian the EB 44 axles had the small 260 joints. The EB inner shaft is a different length that the waggy. All you need to do is figure out what length you want & match it up to the closest inner you need. Ary, running the axle full width shouldn't be a problem. I know several that have & the mounts are still inboard of the frame. Gary, they make up to 7 degree offset poly "C" bushings to rotate the pinion to what ever you need. I'm currantly running 2 degree bushings.

Matt
 
BC broncos sells a wristed arm setup for the dana 44. I am in the process also of installing a dana 44 front with ford radius arms. Just finished the custom crossmember.
 
Farmer matt, could we possibly see a picture of your new crossmember? I would like to see how you got your new mounts flush with the crossmember. Thanks,
 
Ary'01XJ said:
Matt, how far off are the Radius arm mounts on the late 70s half tons at full-width. I'm not interested in narrowing it. I'm planning full-widths under an MJ and I'd like to retain the ford style radius arms. Will it work? or are they too far outside the frame?? Thanks

Ary, the mounts are 41" apart on my 73. I believe the late years are the same. That's on the axle end. I believe the frame mounts are 31". HTH
Dale
 
Sweet thanks Matt. The pictures are just what I was looking for. Now I just need to figure out my plan of attack so I can have a reverse rotation center and XJ width. Later, Eric
 
cresso, perhaps this will help:

Radius.jpg


nice to see other folks that have an understanding of the forces, it is very difficult to explain....

my solution is easy.

RUN ONE UPPER.

no problemo.
 
That's perfect! Whew, coulda used that about a page and half ago. hehe. Unfortunately, we've probably already lost everyone by now. With that sliding upper link that I have on mine, it's really easy to see in person. I'll be at BOTW2, so hopefully I'll convert some believers there. =)
 
exactly.....

yeah, its real easy to demonstrate when you run one upper.....

get the side without an upper in a droop or stuff, and then hand a dis-believer (or one lacking in mechanical reasoning) the upper link and a tape measure, and show them were the link is supposed to go and have them imagine the forces at work on the axle tube if the link were allowed to remain in the suspension set-up.....
 
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