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Congrats tree huggers on being a hypocrite!

nw-xj-scott said:
Yeah! I know they are original. These cars were bought threw auction with around 40k miles. i deal with the Maintenance requests every day, They rarely need anything... I am not "Siding" with anyone in this. but from my experience with these cars, that report is making them out to be Unreliable, Short-lived Cars. and i have to disagree.
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I guess the thing with the batteries isnt as much mileage but age. Most car batteries have called it quites long before 170000 miles because by the time they have that many miles, they are also 10 years old.
 
Ray H said:
I guess the thing with the batteries isnt as much mileage but age. Most car batteries have called it quites long before 170000 miles because by the time they have that many miles, they are also 10 years old.
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It's possible. i cant predict 5 years down the road. but by that time they will all be well over 500k miles. most of Our crown vic's are about 4-8 years old. most have 500k on them. Alot of transmissions replaced but original motors for the most part.

The prius is a drivers car. if your not going to drive them. dont buy them. stick to a civic.
 
Although I am by no means defending hybrids, which I also think are stupid, that article is filled with bullsh*t. Just the crap on Sudbury alone is crap, sure it was like that in the 50's but not so much so today...
 
I was trying to find an article I just read a couple days ago on MSN.com's Slate magazine refuting that article. I admit the first time I read it I was sold too. I hate Priuses and think most of the people buying them do it just to feel good and show everyone else how they're saving the world. I can't tell you how many I see shoot by me on the highway at 80-90 mph meaning the hybrid is running on purely gas and the engine is having to run pretty hard. They only benefit from aerodynamics and low rolling resistance tires at that point. But, the article on Slate pointed out a lot of flaws and just plain misleading info in it.
 
Google Earth Copper Cliff, Ontario to see the plant and the area around it...
 
I think the technology is neat, and its good that its been made production, itll take years before theres an affordable reason to buy one, my issue is the fact that its being hyped, and marketed as "saving the environment". Blah blah...
petrol cars are not going to kill any dang trees.as a matter of fact they have been running so clean and efficient, its a shame to now try to ditch them all together. Its more of a statement than anything, owning a car made by anyone with a little leafy green emblem on the rear of it.
If hybrids had been designed and sold under the premise of them being "efficient" and money saving alone, minus the geo-friendly nonsense they are packaged with, it would be a different story.
I believe in being a good steward of the land, being an off roader, i dont go trying to destroy things, and i take out what i took in with me,as far as refuse.
I love a clean environment as much as the next person. But financing an expensive new, not-yet-demonized technology (the press will eventually find something to say about them, give it time) under the guise of "saving some fish, trees, or other naturally occuring element of the earth is a poor economic decision.
Besides the Prius is the most feminine vehicle ive seen, (in the states anyway) id rather drive a geo metro. I see them on the freeways here in Houston all the time doing 65 mph, and getting passed over and over and over,.........allmost a traffic hazard, noone goes 65 on the interstate. And we have to slow down and change lanes for these things.
Mabye thats why the push for the 55 MPH speed limit (omfg) is being reinstated, to protect the poor little hybrids that cant keep up..... Mabye not, its a bad idea all over.
 
the really sad thing is my jeep just passed smog with zero parts per million on both hydrocarbons and co2 emissions. id really like to see what these new hybrids emissions really are when a jeep thats 14 years old doesnt polute like all the eviros claim they do. im all for having a clean environment but most of these environmentalists need a good a$$ woopinHasta
 
Really we are just trying to put off the inevitable. The world population of people will nearly double in the next 70 years. Every one of those people will be users and polluters to some extent. This planet is screwed no matter what we do unless people start dieing off faster than they are born.
If people were really interested in being "green" they would stop having babies. That sounds harsh but thats the only real solution to saving the planet. Anything short of that and the greenies are just pissing in the wind.
 
jpcherokeekid said:
the really sad thing is my jeep just passed smog with zero parts per million on both hydrocarbons and co2 emissions. id really like to see what these new hybrids emissions really are when a jeep thats 14 years old doesnt polute like all the eviros claim they do. im all for having a clean environment but most of these environmentalists need a good a$$ woopinHasta
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Your jeep couldn't have past with 0 part per million CO2, but it could have past with 0 part per million CO(carbon monoxide).
 
Ray H said:
Really we are just trying to put off the inevitable. The world population of people will nearly double in the next 70 years. Every one of those people will be users and polluters to some extent. This planet is screwed no matter what we do unless people start dieing off faster than they are born.
If people were really interested in being "green" they would stop having babies. That sounds harsh but thats the only real solution to saving the planet. Anything short of that and the greenies are just pissing in the wind.
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It's funny - but I've been saying much the same thing for years.

But I usually get denounced as "extremist" and told I should change my opinion.

But I don't.
 
Brady, b/c I'm too lazy to look it up...and you're some sort of chemist who can probably recite this from memory :D

Hydrocarbons = methane/ethane?

Combustion of gasoline = CO2, CO, Hydrocarbons, NOx(?)

Cat Converter = helps eliminate NOx and...?
 
5-90 said:
It's funny - but I've been saying much the same thing for years.

But I usually get denounced as "extremist" and told I should change my opinion.

But I don't.
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So where do we start....firebomb Africa? China? India?

:flame: :flame: :flame: ;)



Actually, didnt China kinda shoot itself in the foot by killing off all the baby girls? Aren't they severely imbalanced as far as male/female ratios now?
 
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JNickel101 said:
Brady, b/c I'm too lazy to look it up...and you're some sort of chemist who can probably recite this from memory :D

Hydrocarbons = methane/ethane?

Combustion of gasoline = CO2, CO, Hydrocarbons, NOx(?)

Cat Converter = helps eliminate NOx and...?
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Hydrocarbons - compounds of naught but hydrogen and carbon, methane and ethane being good examples (also acetylene, propane, butane, ... Their numbers are legion.)

Compleat combustion of hydrocarbons in air yields carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapour (H20,) with the possibility of yielding oxides of nitrogen (NOx) as a byproduct if temperatures are high enough (~1600-1800*F, IIRC.)

Incompleat combustion of hydrocarbons in air yields CO2, H2O, and a portion of carbon monoxide (CO.) This is either due to insufficient temperature at time of combustion (depends on hydrocarbon being burned) and availability of oxygen (insufficient oxygen = CO production.)

The catalytic converter is usually a three-step device now. It first causes the combustion of any leftover hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream, reducing HC emissions (a far greater "greenhouse gas" than CO2.) Then, it reduces NOx to N2 and O2, which cuts down on NOx emissions (a component of acid rain.) Last, it then further oxidises CO into CO2 (CO can be considered a "fuel" in a strict sense, since it can still be combusted.) I've explained how haemoglobin in blood (the part that carried oxygen and makes it red - a complex organometallic form of rust) has a greater affinity for CO than for O2 - and that's why CO poisoning (properly called "asphyxia") kills.

Part of the problem is that gasoline isn't a pure hydrocarbon - and it never really has been. Gasoline is a mix of mid-weight hydrocarbons (the C6-C10 series, saturated and unsaturated, as I recall,) and the boatload of additives and oxygenates that the EPA and CalEPA mandates (simplest oxygenates are alcohols - which are hydrocarbons where one -H is replaced with a -OH radical - making them "slightly pre-oxygenated" hydrocarbons. Then we get into ethers and the like - which are more highly oxygenated, and more highly volatile. "Starting fluid" is a mix of ethyl ether and heptane - heptane is the hydrocarbon that was used as a definition of zero on the octane scale.)

Diesel is similar - it just uses a higher "section" of hydrocarbons (C12-C16 or so, I think?) and isn't ignited by a spark, but by heat of compression.

Are you sure you want to get into this, or have you had enough now? I'd have to dig out notes to go any deeper...
 
Damn you....my head hurts. I've been reading about electronic warfare all day, now I try and switch to this and....yeah...neurons are tired.

:D thanks though!
 
JNickel101 said:
Brady, b/c I'm too lazy to look it up...and you're some sort of chemist who can probably recite this from memory :D

Hydrocarbons = methane/ethane?

Combustion of gasoline = CO2, CO, Hydrocarbons, NOx(?)

Cat Converter = helps eliminate NOx and...?
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1. Yes, those are hydrocarbons along with gasoline and diesel. Pretty much any derivative of crude oil is considered a hydrocarbon.

2. Ideally, gasoline combustion with yield only Carbon Dioxide(CO2) and water. But in the real world, gasoline combustion also produces NOx. And due to in complete combustion, some Carbon Monoxide(CO) can be formed. CO is usually formed when a vehicle is running 'rich'.

3. Catalytic converters are the the greatest tech in reducing harmful tail pipe emissions that lead to smog and a good catalytic converter can converter nearly 100% of Nitrogen Oxides( NO, NO2 = NOx) and Carbon Monoxide gases into harmless gases. Two stage Catalytic converters NOx, and Carbon Monoxide(CO) into Nitrogen gas and Carbon Dioxide(CO2). But they are pretty useless against hydrocarbon emissions. Your car's computer or a good tune up are the best ways to fight hydrocarbon emissions.


. . . and 4. Yes. Yes I can recite all this crap from memory. . . . :p
 
3. So the fact that I got two brand new pre-cats (farking $$$) and a new "main" cat on my XJ means I'm probably doing pretty well in the emissions department....

NM doesnt have emissions testing (at least in the south)...I'd be curious what my results would be.
 
JNickel101 said:
3. So the fact that I got two brand new pre-cats (farking $$$) and a new "main" cat on my XJ means I'm probably doing pretty well in the emissions department....

NM doesnt have emissions testing (at least in the south)...I'd be curious what my results would be.
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You should be fine in the emissions department.

Really, the biggest concerns for emissions are smog formation and carbon monoxide poison. Those NOx gases are key components in Ozone(O3) formation and carbon monoxide is a deadly gas. Both Ozone and carbon monoxide are extremely harmful to human health in very small amounts(part per billion levels). So that's why we want to control those emissions.
 
5-90 said:
It's funny - but I've been saying much the same thing for years.

But I usually get denounced as "extremist" and told I should change my opinion.

But I don't.
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I dont understand why this is such a hard thing for most people to understand. I dont think we need to intentionally kill people off (unless you like that sort of thing). Nature will eventually do the job. At some point, when the earth can no longer support the human species, there will be enough deceases and homosexuality and killing to put things back in check. it'll happen automatically whether we want it to or not. It's already starting, but it will get worse before it gets better. Im going to enjoy myself and not worry too much about it because its out of my hands.
 
I'm thinking all three of those things (or at least 2 of 3) will lead to the demise of Africa, the Middle East and China....

Maybe I just like watching stuff blow up too much...:dunno:
 
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