coilover and 4 links... best bang for buck?

[fatwreck]

i don't want to buy a lift sorry i did not clarify that. i could make that lift for half the price. it looks like a nice lift, i am not questioning the quality by any means but that is not the road i want to travel.

-nate

yeah, I knew you didn't want to buy a lift....but they have some pics of their setup....just something to check out.

 

[BrettM]

seriously though with the air shocks, they seem pretty cheap to me. sure you have to fill them, but you do that with coilovers too, but you do have to put oil in the air shox but i can't imagine that being too spendy.

bill says that they recommend running them with no more than 1000 lbs per corner or a gvw of 5000 lbs. i am not sure but i think my xj will be under that.
what is the weight of a stock 2.5l, manual, two door xj?
the shocks weigh 6 lbs each... that is nuts!!!!!!
also, in the thread that bill links to on pbb team purple (some ron guy) talks about how they are the first to run these as a primary suspension source, i guess they were made to be secondary... weird, but it works great according to him and bill.
i am pretty interested in them considering they are 225 a piece, they do require tuning, but what doesn't these days????? plus they are rebuildable.
and they say that you can add coils to them.

hey just go read the damn review http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Airshox/index.html

you're only looking at putting them on the rear of your chopped XJ right? if that's the case you should be WAY under 1000 pounds per corner. even if you put them in the front, I would be extremely surprised if you were over 1000 per corner.

you're right on with the adjustability, yes it will take some tuning, but so do coilovers.

the only disadvantages I see to Air Shox is the weight limit (probably not an issue for you) and you can't get them with remote resevoirs (only an issue for desert racing type stuff)

man, it would be great to mount your whole rear springs and shocks with just four 1/2 inch bolts! the simplicity is so appealing

 

[xj_punk]

yes i do only want them in the rear of the xj. i think it is a good idea and for 225 a pop, my skyjacker leaf springs were about the same price, even with my discount! sucks huh? anyone want some rockready leafs? i could sell them and use the cash to buy air shocks...they are brand freaking new!!!!

building a 4 link will be kinda costly though. not too bad i imagine. hey beez how much did your links cost?

 

[BrettM]

for links, let's see, 15 feet of DOM, $80-$100, 4 RE joints, $120, 4 poly or rubber bushings, $20.

so I would say you're looking at $220-$240 for the links.

 

[xj_punk]

for links, let's see, 15 feet of DOM, $80-$100, 4 RE joints, $120, 4 poly or rubber bushings, $20.

so I would say you're looking at $220-$240 for the links.

i guess it depends a lot on the price of the tubing/what wall thickness i use.
what re joints are you talking about? and do they require misalignment spacers? i have a bunch of poly bushings laying around too.

 

[BrettM]

a lot of people use rod ends (heims) but I would definitely use the large Rubicon Express Superflex joints, especially if it's a daily driver. they are cheaper than good rod ends for the initial purchase, much cheaper in the long run because they're rebuildable, no misalignment spacers needed, not as vulnerable to water/salt/dirt... really the only advantage I can see for rod ends is their smaller size (useful for steering and such, not so much for control arms)

check www.PolyPerformance.com, they have the joints as well http://www.polyperformance.com/re_bearings.htm

I have seen them come with a threaded piece welded to the outer housing as well, you could call PolyPerformance and see if you could get those too.

 

[xj_punk]

i could get those joints, but how many degress do they twist? these heims twist 13 degrees.

i could get threaded inserts, (4) 5/8" bore heims with misalignment spacers and then bushings on the other end for about 140 bucks... so which is better? heims or re superflex joints? they will end up about the same price. i am sure the re joints are tougher and i like the idea of them because i don't have to get threaded inserts so i can run whatever size links i just have to notch them and weld. do you think poly bushings on one end and re joints on the other will flex enough?

-nate

 

[xj_punk]

wow the poly website says that the re's twist 22.5 degrees. how do they not require a misalignment bushing and twist that much? do you just leave extra space in the brackets?

 

[Fullsizexj]

i could get those joints, but how many degress do they twist? these heims twist 13 degrees.

i could get threaded inserts, (4) 5/8" bore heims with misalignment spacers and then bushings on the other end for about 140 bucks... so which is better? heims or re superflex joints? they will end up about the same price. i am sure the re joints are tougher and i like the idea of them because i don't have to get threaded inserts so i can run whatever size links i just have to notch them and weld. do you think poly bushings on one end and re joints on the other will flex enough?

-nate

I am using the RE spherical joints for all my control arms except for the frame mount on the upper 3rd link in the rear, there I am using the poly Bushings From M.O.R.E . I get all the flex out them I could ever need, even with all the flex I get I still do not think I ever maxed them out

 

[BrettM]

how do they twist so much? they just do... that's the way they're designed

as for space, you leave 2 5/8" between your mounting brackets, like the PolyPerformance site says.

as for enough twist, it will be PLENTY

if you are familiar with RudeZuk (Shane) on the Pirates board, his competition buggy from last year was running 4 links front and rear, RE joints on one end, poly on the other end for all 8 of his links, all equal length too. That thing flexed like CRAZY, he had either 14 or 16 inch coilovers and used all the travel.

 

[xj_punk]

how do they twist so much? they just do... that's the way they're designed

as for space, you leave 2 5/8" between your mounting brackets, like the PolyPerformance site says.

as for enough twist, it will be PLENTY

if you are familiar with RudeZuk (Shane) on the Pirates board, his competition buggy from last year was running 4 links front and rear, RE joints on one end, poly on the other end for all 8 of his links, all equal length too. That thing flexed like CRAZY, he had either 14 or 16 inch coilovers and used all the travel.

oh you do 2 5/8"... do they just use a pretty thick bushing and that is how they get that twist, the steel probably measures quite bit smaller?

 

[Fullsizexj]

oh you do 2 5/8"... do they just use a pretty thick bushing and that is how they get that twist, the steel probably measures quite bit smaller?

Look at the Spherical ball, the misalignment bushings are built into it and since the poly bushing is rather large, it allows for lots of room to move without hitting the outer case. RE also makes a smaller size which I have on both ends of my track bar

 

[xj_punk]

Look at the Spherical ball, the misalignment bushings are built into it and since the poly bushing is rather large, it allows for lots of room to move without hitting the outer case. RE also makes a smaller size which I have on both ends of my track bar

cool thats what i thought. are you using them on your rear with the link setup for your coilovers?

 

[Fullsizexj]

I have them on both ends of the front uppers and lowers and on both ends of the rear lowers and on the axle end of the upper wishbone with the M.O.R.E. poly bushings on the frame end of the wishbone

 

[Beezil]

a couple things....

I went with heims becuase they are physically smaller. I was able to tuck them in mounting locations in complicated areas (especially the front) and never could have gotten away with using a big fat re-style joint....yes, the size difference CAN matter when you know EXACTLY how you need your geometry to be, and where it must go.

secondly, I like the comfort factor using 5/8 hardware, and its become a "standard size" throughout the jeep....

I have 16 heim joints used in the jeep, and carry only two spares, and a handful of 5/8" hardware. Its nice not having to carry a hardware store around with me. actually, its nice not carrying ANYTHING around....

just mooch from your friends.

I don't know what the load rating specs on those re joints are, they had better be WAAAAAY stronger than a quality namebrand heim joint to justofy their physical size.

 

[vintagespeed]

..........Vintage never wheels (he just keeps rebuilding) so he'll never bend his......... Sean

This is true.

 

[vintagespeed]

14" fox air shocks are only 225 a piece on that poly performance site. whats the catch with those? they say spring rates up to 500 lbs don't require coils, hence the name air shocks right?

Yes, Bill put them on his TUBE BUGGY.

I'm waiting for some 'tard XJ owner to stick them on a fully loaded trail rig & watch it blow out like a condom on prom night. That'll be better than a cRusty's praise thread.....they aren't rated to carry the kind of weight we have to offer.

Common kids, airshocks are for minitrucks!

 

[vintagespeed]

a couple things....

I went with heims becuase they are physically smaller. I was able to tuck them in mounting locations in complicated areas (especially the front) and never could have gotten away with using a big fat re-style joint....yes, the size difference CAN matter when you know EXACTLY how you need your geometry to be, and where it must go.

secondly, I like the comfort factor using 5/8 hardware, and its become a "standard size" throughout the jeep....

I have 16 heim joints used in the jeep, and carry only two spares, and a handful of 5/8" hardware. Its nice not having to carry a hardware store around with me. actually, its nice not carrying ANYTHING around....

just mooch from your friends.

I don't know what the load rating specs on those re joints are, they had better be WAAAAAY stronger than a quality namebrand heim joint to justofy their physical size.

I've thought about using heims in my rear (no jokes) for these reasons. But I like the JJs, no stupid grease nipple to rip off or be up on top out of grease range like the RE ones. 9/16" hardware is plenty strong enough, especially when your shocks are held on with 1/2".

-jb

 

[BrettM]

Yes, Bill put them on his TUBE BUGGY.

I'm waiting for some 'tard XJ owner to stick them on a fully loaded trail rig & watch it blow out like a condom on prom night. That'll be better than a cRusty's praise thread.....they aren't rated to carry the kind of weight we have to offer.

Common kids, airshocks are for minitrucks!

do you really think most XJs are over 4000 pounds of UNSPRUNG weight? I doubt it, but yes they may be somewhat close. But have you seen xj_punk's XJ now? he has the other thread going "plasma cutter made me do it" or something like that. he has nothing left in the back! unless he is stupid, he will be WAY under 2000 pounds unsprung in the back

 

[xj_punk]

do you really think most XJs are over 4000 pounds of UNSPRUNG weight? I doubt it, but yes they may be somewhat close. But have you seen xj_punk's XJ now? he has the other thread going "plasma cutter made me do it" or something like that. he has nothing left in the back! unless he is stupid, he will be WAY under 2000 pounds unsprung in the back

did you just call me stupid... jk
yeah i am going to make my rollcage out of 4" tube 1" wall... is that too heavy? hehe yeah right!

i don't know how i could make that thing weigh over 4k lbs, unless i felt the need to lift weights on the trail or carry enough water in the back to supply all of moab.

i have seen the specs for xjs on a couple different websites and they were both around 3000-3100 lbs for 2 doors, but no one said how much less a 4 cyl model is. plus i removed some things like the back seat, it is probably just short of 100 lbs or so. and the carpet and oh yeah the whole BACK END... i think that had significant weight to it. not to mention i removed the headliner, and the rest of the roof and door pillars will come off. the funny thing about unibodies is that the uniframe itself weighs less than the sheetmetal around it... oh wait it is just sheetmetal too!