Cheap (relatively) axles thought?

CRASH said:
I thought 40 spline detroits were readily available????

I can't believe Garry can't keep track of one stupid switch while driving. I'm beginning to question his status as a driver......

CRASH
Click to expand...

Remember, you're talking about a guy who regularly finds bomb craters at speed...........

:)
 
Jeff 98XJ WI said:
I brought up the thought of purchasing ONE expensive HP 60 axle, combining it with a $20 HP 44 housing (and a number of other specialized parts) and getting a HP D60 rear AND a HP D44 front running D60 shafts/u-joints for perhaps less than bucks than all other options. Sure, one has to add in custom shafts (front and rear), high steer, custom bracketry, aftermarket housing ends for the rear and other misc. items, but one usually has to add these to just about any axle combination they build. Price goes up, but does it go up to the extent of ordering a Tera60 and Tera50 housing from some builder company? I don't know. What I wanted to know is if what I outlined would work and if it would be worth it. I found out some would work and some wouldn't. There may be other better options too. So lets keep it on topic about the custom axles. Here are a few more questions:

Is a hp D44 center section combined with D60 outers and shafts with D60 joints a reliable combination or will the pinion or something become a problem area?
Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff, I can tell you what I did, most of which you already know. I had a HP60 hub to hub sitting in my garage, and a rear full float D60. I wanted to do what you're talking about, but I would have put the full float ends on the front housing, hog out the spindles and use 35 spline full float shafts.....no seal issues. I also had the HP44 for the front, and was going to use the D60 outers. In my case, the 35 spline ARB wasn't out yet, but I wanted to use the 33 spline Detroit that came with the Super 44 kit. Unfortunately, Superior had an exclusive on the 33 spline Detroit so it was not available. There was a possibility that I could get one, but with difficulty. At that time, guys were resplining the stock D60 shafts to 30 spline to run in the D44/D60's, but they weren't holding up because of removing too much case hardening. After messing with it for a month or more, and calling around to see what I could get done, and what parts would work, I ended up selling the front D60, built the HP44 for the front with Warn shafts and CTM's, and bought a Tera60 for the rear. I spent a little more, but it all works.

As far as breaking some D44 parts, the one side was totally because of towing Poomba on Fordyce. I first broke a Warn hub, then two days later the stub shaft broke and didn't even make any noise....about an inch of the shaft just disintigrated, obviously from previous stress. I wondered how the other side would fair, and sort of waited for the other shoe to drop, which it eventually did. The stub shaft broke, not even in a bind or hard situation, and without much noise, and the break looked just like the other side.....not a shear but breaking up in little pieces. It likely was due to cracks from the previous stress.

I also have broken two CTM's, one on each side, and both were first generation which were before they were cryo treated. The first one the tire got caught in a crack, and the axle yokes were hitting. Axle yokes hitting has been the number one reason for CTM's to break. The yokes were clearanced, so that isn't a problem anymore. The other side broke, but not in a bind, though I was working it pretty good. It could have been from previous stress (maybe the same Fordyce situation), or from the bushing being a little worn and loose, or a combination of both.

I'll have to see how it all holds together over the next year or two to see how it is really holding up.
 
Jeff 98XJ WI said:
Will a stock HP D60 modified to run in the rear work ok or will oiling issues make it have problems? Are there modifications to the housing to make the oiling issues less troublesome?
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You still haven't mentioned how many road miles you plan on putting on.

Jeff 98XJ WI said:
Are D60 alloy shafts more expensive than D44 alloy shafts and by how much? Who makes the custom length D60 shafts since I won't be able to call a Warn distributor and order stock replacement Alloy shafts.
Click to expand...
http://www.wagonermachine.com/
They were selling theres before the Yukon junk was out. I know they are imports, but don't know anything more than that.

Right before I did the 35 spline shafts in the rear 44 I contacted them about a 9" housing. I was determined to beat Paul to the True Hi9. If I remember correctly it was around 1200-1500 for a 9" housing, exploder disks, and 35 spline semi float shafts. No spring perches or shock mounts.

Jeff 98XJ WI said:
What about the axle seal in the diff? Anybody make one that will work?
Click to expand...
The OD on a stock 44 seal is 2.625. I don't think it should be much of an issue to find an OD that size with an ID for a 60 shaft. I haven't bothered to measure the seal surface on the 1.5" shafts to see what ID was needed.

Jeff 98XJ WI said:
If one were to do one of those custom 9" housings with 60 outer parts, what do they do for axle seals in the diff? Can the same thing be done with a D44 housing? What size tubes do they use? Since the 9" housings started life as rear ends, is there a place to install an axle seal in the diff? If not, how do they make a place for a seal when modifying a rear housing for use in the front? Just a few questions ON TOPIC!! :) Jeff
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Look at a 9" housing. Most are 3" tubes, but they are much larger where a normal inner axle seal would be placed. There is tons of room for a seal and 35 spline 9" fronts have been made for a while.
 
Sorry I missed a couple.

Jeff 98XJ WI said:
Is there really a 35spline D44 ARB and does it cost more than a 31 spline D44 ARB? How much more? How about a 33 spline ARB?
Click to expand...
30, 33, and 35 spline ARB's are available.

Jeff 98XJ WI said:
Can a 31 spline ARB be upgraded to 35 spline by swapping side gears?
Click to expand...
No, they have a larger end and a special bearing.
 
Damn, this lincoln guy seems to know his stuff. :) So did I read right that you built a rear LP D44 with 35 spline semi float shafts? What parts did it take to make this work? Just for curiosity sake. Jeff

As for highway miles expected to be run on the MJ, who knows? I would like it to be able to handle highway driving as I don't own a trailer nor a tow rig, but it's all so far in the future that I just don't know. I ran the XJ from WI to AZ, WI to CO, WI to MI, etc. Got 130,000 or so miles on it now and it had 67,000 when I bought it. I doubt the MJ would see that kind of use though. Jeff
 
Jeff 98XJ WI said:
Damn, this lincoln guy seems to know his stuff. :) So did I read right that you built a rear LP D44 with 35 spline semi float shafts? What parts did it take to make this work? Just for curiosity sake. Jeff

As for highway miles expected to be run on the MJ, who knows? I would like it to be able to handle highway driving as I don't own a trailer nor a tow rig, but it's all so far in the future that I just don't know. I ran the XJ from WI to AZ, WI to CO, WI to MI, etc. Got 130,000 or so miles on it now and it had 67,000 when I bought it. I doubt the MJ would see that kind of use though. Jeff
Click to expand...

I don't think I would worry to much about the lube issues. Worry about it if you ruin a pinion bearing quicker than you would like. Like I said some have been running 10 years and others have to change the bearings once a year. Most of them are on spring over CJ5's, pretty steep pinion angle.

If you measure a 44 shaft for a set 10 bearing the bearing area is 1.58" in diameter. That means there isn't a problem putting it on a 1.5" shaft. There isn't room though and there isn't a problem making sure the bearing is straight. :) If you get 1.5" 35 spline shafts with that bearing journal then slap in a 35 spline ARB it's done. I did mine the lazy mans way though. Just called up Tri County Gear and had them send it and all the parts I needed. No one but Jason Bunch new they sold it though so I guess it was pretty new and they were also the only place that I could get a 35 spline ARB at the time. I ended up at about $1300 with new studs, bearings, seals, retainer plates, ARB , and shafts. Those are the standard 1541 alloy that superior, dutchman, etc use.
 
For Richard or Stonergoat.

Since we're talking about 60 shit this seemed like a good place to bring it in.

If you want to run a 5x5.5 or 6x5.5 patter wheel on a front 60 (don't know about the full floats) here is what you can do. This assumes you need to do it to keep the 15 wheels.

1. Have someone turn the hub down on a lathe. Gots to fit inside the wheel. Stole a pic:
sixty2.jpg

2. Redrill the pattern.
3. F150 rotors for the 5 lug stuff (not sure on the 6 lug).
4. Call Parts Mike and get a set of caliper brackets. They use the standard Chevy caliper. If you have to have it expensive you can call Dynatrac.
5. Bolt it together.

Here's an old writeup. Parts Mike started making his brackets sometime after this.
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2001/hpd60front/

:D
 
Cheapest methode avalible would be to get a high pinion front 60 out of a ford chevy or dodge cut the tubes about 12 inches from the end. Purchase a rear low pinion 70 for dirt cheap somewhere cut the outers off the 70 also at 12 inches, the cuts must be perfectly made with a band saw. Set up your alignment jig weld the the 70 outers on the ends of the the 60 tubes, full pen welds of course. Get the 70 axels and install them with standard rotation gear set and you have high pinion 60 with 70 strength. I dont remember for sure cuz it's my buddies rig but you may have to get a different locker for the 35 spline axels? He's been running it hard core on a buggie with atlas II and a V8 for about 3 years now and no breakage.
 
bluebeast said:
Cheapest methode avalible would be to get a high pinion front 60 out of a ford chevy or dodge cut the tubes about 12 inches from the end. Purchase a rear low pinion 70 for dirt cheap somewhere cut the outers off the 70 also at 12 inches, the cuts must be perfectly made with a band saw. Set up your alignment jig weld the the 70 outers on the ends of the the 60 tubes, full pen welds of course. Get the 70 axels and install them with standard rotation gear set and you have high pinion 60 with 70 strength. I dont remember for sure cuz it's my buddies rig but you may have to get a different locker for the 35 spline axels? He's been running it hard core on a buggie with atlas II and a V8 for about 3 years now and no breakage.
Click to expand...
sounds like a good basic plan, but where do you find chevy and dodge HP 60s? and why standard cut gears in a HP housing? I would also sleeve the tubes (inner or outer sleeve) when welding them together.
 
bluebeast said:
Cheapest methode avalible would be to get a high pinion front 60 out of a ford chevy or dodge cut the tubes about 12 inches from the end. Purchase a rear low pinion 70 for dirt cheap somewhere cut the outers off the 70 also at 12 inches, the cuts must be perfectly made with a band saw. Set up your alignment jig weld the the 70 outers on the ends of the the 60 tubes, full pen welds of course. Get the 70 axels and install them with standard rotation gear set and you have high pinion 60 with 70 strength. I dont remember for sure cuz it's my buddies rig but you may have to get a different locker for the 35 spline axels? He's been running it hard core on a buggie with atlas II and a V8 for about 3 years now and no breakage.
Click to expand...


This would be a sweet plan in fantasy land, where you run standard cut gears in a reverse spiral Dodge or Chevy housing.

:thumbup:

CRASH
 
Not Fantasy Land, Reality. Not standard cut gears, reverse cut gear set for HP 60 out of a Ford. I did find a HP 60 in a Suburban so not fantasy. I thought the newer dodge trucks came with a 70 rear and HP60 front? It really works good thought because a front 60 is 35 spline and a rear 70 is also 35 spline so you dont even have to get custom axels. Ive seen it done twice with no sleave and it has held up through some of the most severe 4 wheeling in the world. A full pen 7018 weld is going to be stronger then the tube your welding to with normal cooling. It's the only way you can run more than 10 inches of suspention lift on a TJ without having oiling isues with the rear pinion bearings.
 
bluebeast said:
Not Fantasy Land, Reality. Not standard cut gears, reverse cut gear set for HP 60 out of a Ford. I did find a HP 60 in a Suburban so not fantasy. I thought the newer dodge trucks came with a 70 rear and HP60 front? It really works good thought because a front 60 is 35 spline and a rear 70 is also 35 spline so you dont even have to get custom axels. Ive seen it done twice with no sleave and it has held up through some of the most severe 4 wheeling in the world. A full pen 7018 weld is going to be stronger then the tube your welding to with normal cooling. It's the only way you can run more than 10 inches of suspention lift on a TJ without having oiling isues with the rear pinion bearings.
Click to expand...

:yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap::yap:

Somebody should give you a cookie for this great infomation.

Dodge D60 front.
97dodge_60.jpg
 
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