Can't even get the oil filter adapter T60 wrench onto the bolt.

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Would you guys stop feeding the troll before he makes good on his thereat to do the valve cover gasket. everyone knows Jeep put the ridge at the back of the firewall and a bolt under it just so there could be a discussion, but do we need to have that discussion?
 
The China POS I used first WAS CAST JUNK!!!! Read MY LIPS!!!! :wave1:

And it did "crumble instantly upon torque application" I was shocked!!! But the last 2-3 years it seems the import stuff is getting worse, not better. For a while there Mainland China junk was getting better. Now it is getting harder to find any good parts or tools anywhere.

It looked exactly like cast iron on the inside when it broke. And it took very little force to break it too.
I stand corrected :shocked:

GOOD QUALITY ones are not cast!
 
Thanks for the encouragement.

As a reality check, this was not a basic repair.
I have done enough remove/replace bolt/unbolt to speak with some authority.

This OFA had a few unique roadblocks:

  1. Having to fabricate/weld/grind your own tool immediately puts this at "intermediate/expert" caliber complexity, ipso facto.
  2. Not knowing if you're going to strip the bolt and render yourself as owning a permanently leaking car also adds a level of trepidation.
  3. Buying a T60 L-wrench that several people successfully used, only to see it not seat and having to abort the project adds yet another level of ambiguity.
    Most repair jobs do not suffer from "This tool is correct, ohhhh, but not correct enough! Bzzzzz."
  4. Not knowing if you use a breaker bar from underneath or above adds 1 layer of ambiguity. People have reported doing both.
  5. Having to manually re-thread an oily part while wearing oily rubber gloves added 15-20 mins. to the project. My back was killing me. Most things re-thread immediately.
  6. My T60 bolt came loose with relative ease. But, some people have reported breaking the wrench. This adds yet another level of hesitation to the project.
    Here, I got VERY lucky, b/c if I had to push hard, I am not sure I would have risked stripping the star hole. I have enough trouble taking apart electrical adapters.

Everything appears very "simple" when it's done, and all questions have been answered.
There is strong hindsight bias in human nature.

Don't believe me? Think back to raising kids. In reality, it was a royal pain in the arse that required some major sacrifices in life.
Now that it's over, I bet your summary is "Eh, it wasn't that bad". "No big deal."
How soon you forget what a stressful nightmare it probably was at times.
Well, the same applies to experts who have totally forgotten what it is like to attempt a mysterious repair job for the first time.
The second time, it takes 20% of the time. 3rd time, you can do it in your sleep.

1 year ago, I had not popped the hood of a car for 20 years. Now, I have $800 worth of tools and have done a 2 dozen small projects.
How? Why? Due of the advent of the internet forums/Youtube, people with no mentors or support systems are attempting this stuff.
People like me are now trying to learn from from behind a 2-dimensional computer screen. Not exactly easy.
Most people never glimpse behind the curtain b/c they b/c they don't do it for a living. And there are few opportunities to learn otherwise. It's been removed from schools.
I'd bet not a single professional mechanic out there had to learn this stuff in TOTAL isolation/vacuum. More likely, they had a job (or a brother, friend, uncle, or neighbor whom they learned from)

Leave the Jeep world for a second, and I'm sure you've noticed that the majority of "wrenching" that kids do today involves costly mods, not even real mechanics. *
(Tuners, ricers......Tint, audio, lowering, rims/tires, LED lights, etc) But, to their credit, at least they know their cars to some degree.

What about the broad population? Oil filter ADAPTER? LOL, most normal people can't identify the oil filter, period.
Now, many adults do not even own a ratchet set. In many regions, only 1% of people know how to open their hoods.
Even fewer know how to change an air filter. (Hell, the XJ requires TOOLS to do it!)
Since the 1990s ubiquity of Jiffy Lube, people don't even change their oil anymore, which was the ONE job every mechanically inclined male would at least learn prior to the 1980s (with ramps)
Today, you can pretty much forget about learning something about cars from that wacky neighbor who is always wrenching in the driveway. Those days are long dead.

Proof? $100/hr careers in the trades for a high school dropouts while many college lemmings are home unemployed well into their late 20s.

Anyways, thanks for the help. Hopefully, that gave you a fresh perspective.
I still feel awesome for having done this, and having a sparking clean OFA.
 
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Soon you'll be ready for ball joints and evaporator core......

On a completely unrelated note...I just replaced the bearings in my LG front loader washer and feel like a total stud. The Best Buy service guy told me it couldn't be done, but he didn't know I had an air compressor and a BFH. Seriously, that job was about on the same difficulty level as a rear main seal...8 hours start to finish....
 
Thanks for the encouragement.

As a reality check, this was not a basic repair.
I have done enough remove/replace bolt/unbolt to speak with some authority.

This OFA had a few unique roadblocks:

  1. Having to fabricate/weld/grind your own tool immediately puts this at "intermediate/expert" caliber complexity, ipso facto.
  2. Not knowing if you're going to strip the bolt and render yourself as owning a permanently leaking car also adds a level of trepidation.
  3. Buying a T60 L-wrench that several people successfully used, only to see it not seat and having to abort the project adds yet another level of ambiguity.
    Most repair jobs do not suffer from "This tool is correct, ohhhh, but not correct enough! Bzzzzz."
  4. Not knowing if you use a breaker bar from underneath or above adds 1 layer of ambiguity. People have reported doing both.
  5. Having to manually re-thread an oily part while wearing oily rubber gloves added 15-20 mins. to the project. My back was killing me. Most things re-thread immediately.
  6. My T60 bolt came loose with relative ease. But, some people have reported breaking the wrench. This adds yet another level of hesitation to the project.
    Here, I got VERY lucky, b/c if I had to push hard, I am not sure I would have risked stripping the star hole. I have enough trouble taking apart electrical adapters.
Everything appears very "simple" when it's done, and all questions have been answered.
There is strong hindsight bias in human nature.

Don't believe me? Think back to raising kids. In reality, it was a royal pain in the arse that required some major sacrifices in life.
Now that it's over, I bet your summary is "Eh, it wasn't that bad". "No big deal."
How soon you forget what a stressful nightmare it probably was at times.
Well, the same applies to experts who have totally forgotten what it is like to attempt a mysterious repair job for the first time.
The second time, it takes 20% of the time. 3rd time, you can do it in your sleep.

1 year ago, I had not popped the hood of a car for 20 years. Now, I have $800 worth of tools and have done a 2 dozen small projects.
How? Why? Due of the advent of the internet forums/Youtube, people with no mentors or support systems are attempting this stuff.
People like me are now trying to learn from from behind a 2-dimensional computer screen. Not exactly easy.
Most people never glimpse behind the curtain b/c they b/c they don't do it for a living. And there are few opportunities to learn otherwise. It's been removed from schools.
I'd bet not a single professional mechanic out there had to learn this stuff in TOTAL isolation/vacuum. More likely, they had a job (or a brother, friend, uncle, or neighbor whom they learned from)

Leave the Jeep world for a second, and I'm sure you've noticed that the majority of "wrenching" that kids do today involves costly mods, not even real mechanics. *
(Tuners, ricers......Tint, audio, lowering, rims/tires, LED lights, etc) But, to their credit, at least they know their cars to some degree.

What about the broad population? Oil filter ADAPTER? LOL, most normal people can't identify the oil filter, period.
Now, many adults do not even own a ratchet set. In many regions, only 1% of people know how to open their hoods.
Even fewer know how to change an air filter. (Hell, the XJ requires TOOLS to do it!)
Since the 1990s ubiquity of Jiffy Lube, people don't even change their oil anymore, which was the ONE job every mechanically inclined male would at least learn prior to the 1980s (with ramps)
Today, you can pretty much forget about learning something about cars from that wacky neighbor who is always wrenching in the driveway. Those days are long dead.

Proof? $100/hr careers in the trades for a high school dropouts while many college lemmings are home unemployed well into their late 20s.

Anyways, thanks for the help. Hopefully, that gave you a fresh perspective.
I still feel awesome for having done this, and having a sparking clean OFA.
people usually learn to wrench on their cars by necessity. has nothing to do with the internet, books, or whatever (there were hayes manuals long before the internet). you can either cry about how impossible it is to do, or you can get your hands dirty and figure it out.
I learned because i was young, poor, on my own, had a POS car, and a lead foot.
 
What really SUCKS is doing the vacuum lines, looking for leaks, LMAO!!!!!!

:laugh3:
 
wait, the air filter on an XJ requires tools to change?

I can't wait to hear this one. Please explain how it requires anything more than two thumbs and at least 3 functioning brain cells.
 
Thanks for the encouragement.

As a reality check, this was not a basic repair.
I have done enough remove/replace bolt/unbolt to speak with some authority.

This OFA had a few unique roadblocks:

  1. Having to fabricate/weld/grind your own tool immediately puts this at "intermediate/expert" caliber complexity, ipso facto.
  2. Not knowing if you're going to strip the bolt and render yourself as owning a permanently leaking car also adds a level of trepidation.
  3. Buying a T60 L-wrench that several people successfully used, only to see it not seat and having to abort the project adds yet another level of ambiguity.
    Most repair jobs do not suffer from "This tool is correct, ohhhh, but not correct enough! Bzzzzz."
  4. Not knowing if you use a breaker bar from underneath or above adds 1 layer of ambiguity. People have reported doing both.
  5. Having to manually re-thread an oily part while wearing oily rubber gloves added 15-20 mins. to the project. My back was killing me. Most things re-thread immediately.
  6. My T60 bolt came loose with relative ease. But, some people have reported breaking the wrench. This adds yet another level of hesitation to the project.
    Here, I got VERY lucky, b/c if I had to push hard, I am not sure I would have risked stripping the star hole. I have enough trouble taking apart electrical adapters.

Everything appears very "simple" when it's done, and all questions have been answered.
There is strong hindsight bias in human nature.

Don't believe me? Think back to raising kids. In reality, it was a royal pain in the arse that required some major sacrifices in life.
Now that it's over, I bet your summary is "Eh, it wasn't that bad". "No big deal."
How soon you forget what a stressful nightmare it probably was at times.
Well, the same applies to experts who have totally forgotten what it is like to attempt a mysterious repair job for the first time.
The second time, it takes 20% of the time. 3rd time, you can do it in your sleep.

1 year ago, I had not popped the hood of a car for 20 years. Now, I have $800 worth of tools and have done a 2 dozen small projects.
How? Why? Due of the advent of the internet forums/Youtube, people with no mentors or support systems are attempting this stuff.
People like me are now trying to learn from from behind a 2-dimensional computer screen. Not exactly easy.
Most people never glimpse behind the curtain b/c they b/c they don't do it for a living. And there are few opportunities to learn otherwise. It's been removed from schools.
I'd bet not a single professional mechanic out there had to learn this stuff in TOTAL isolation/vacuum. More likely, they had a job (or a brother, friend, uncle, or neighbor whom they learned from)

Leave the Jeep world for a second, and I'm sure you've noticed that the majority of "wrenching" that kids do today involves costly mods, not even real mechanics. *
(Tuners, ricers......Tint, audio, lowering, rims/tires, LED lights, etc) But, to their credit, at least they know their cars to some degree.

What about the broad population? Oil filter ADAPTER? LOL, most normal people can't identify the oil filter, period.
Now, many adults do not even own a ratchet set. In many regions, only 1% of people know how to open their hoods.
Even fewer know how to change an air filter. (Hell, the XJ requires TOOLS to do it!)
Since the 1990s ubiquity of Jiffy Lube, people don't even change their oil anymore, which was the ONE job every mechanically inclined male would at least learn prior to the 1980s (with ramps)
Today, you can pretty much forget about learning something about cars from that wacky neighbor who is always wrenching in the driveway. Those days are long dead.

Proof? $100/hr careers in the trades for a high school dropouts while many college lemmings are home unemployed well into their late 20s.

Anyways, thanks for the help. Hopefully, that gave you a fresh perspective.
I still feel awesome for having done this, and having a sparking clean OFA.


Stop dude, just STOP! Theres no crying in wrenching. Man up, or find a mechanic. The shit you listed (omg, do i use a breaker bar from the top? OR from the bottom?), that shit is no more than 2 seconds of thought to figure out, if one doesnt work, try the other. Theres no need to even mention it online. Dont be such a wuss.

...Did you just seriously cry about getting your gloved hands dirty with oil?
Maybe 1% of YOUR FRIENDS know how to open a hood.... I happen to know men, not little bitches.
::FACEPALM::

You should feel embarassed, not awesome.
 
I use a long flat blade screw driver for the springy cover clamps. My arthritis is painfull enough, :laugh3:
 
Theres no crying in wrenching.
know how I can tell you've never dealt with a rusted-solid, perfectly round unit bearing hub bolt? :laugh3:

There was bitching, moaning, cursing, a whole lot of angry words, then a 5/8" grade 8 nut, dremel, and my welder cranked to 11. It came out :conceited

And I didn't need a 19 page thread to make it happen.
 
Stop dude, just STOP! Theres no crying in wrenching. Man up, or find a mechanic. The shit you listed (omg, do i use a breaker bar from the top? OR from the bottom?), that shit is no more than 2 seconds of thought to figure out, if one doesnt work, try the other. Theres no need to even mention it online. Dont be such a wuss.

...Did you just seriously cry about getting your gloved hands dirty with oil?
Maybe 1% of YOUR FRIENDS know how to open a hood.... I happen to know men, not little bitches.
::FACEPALM::

You should feel embarassed, not awesome.

Having pulled an,xj motor before breakfast, I approve this ^ message.
 
What really SUCKS is doing the vacuum lines, looking for leaks, LMAO!!!!!! :laugh3:

Smoke test. One needs to know when to hand off to a professional. If you spend 25 hours tracking down a leak, and you earn $100/hr, you just gave up $2500 in wages trying to save $100. Penny wise, pound foolish. The only reason to wrench on cars is to learn new things and feel a sense of accomplishments. If you want to save money, you're better off working for minimum wage and hiring out the work (when you factor in the thousands of hours spent learning the craft, over a lifetime, and all the hours spend on forums).

wait, the air filter on an XJ requires tools to change? I can't wait to hear this one. Please explain how it requires anything more than two thumbs and at least 3 functioning brain cells.

2 others already have. First, I used a vice grip to clamp onto the rubber hoses while trying to detach them. Also, the bizarre "clamp" notches needed tools to detach. I also used a screwdriver to pry up the clips on the box lid. There ya go: Multiple tools. If it required 3 brain cells, you really think Jiffy Lube could charge $450/hr to replace air filters? (pro rata, $15 markup at 2 mins. per installation)? That's more than a surgeon charges per hour. Trust me, there's a reason why high IQ doctors, lawyers, bankers, or engineers who are busy with careers do not know how to do this. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out why.

(omg, do i use a breaker bar from the top? OR from the bottom?), that shit is no more than 2 seconds of thought to figure out, if one doesnt work, try the other. Theres no need to even mention it online. Dont be such a wuss.

...Did you just seriously cry about getting your gloved hands dirty with oil?
Maybe 1% of YOUR FRIENDS know how to open a hood.... I happen to know men, not little bitches.
::FACEPALM::

You should feel embarassed, not awesome.

LOL, you missed the entire point. The point was that WHEN there's no single way to do the job, the job inherently more complex. If I said there were 45 ways to do a particular job, don't you think it's more complex b/c of the added step in comparing all 45 approaches? Now, compare that to a job that has only one correct way (like swapping out a spark plug) Get it?

I said oil on your hands while trying to screw in a oily bolt makes the job harder. You don't read too well. Again, you missed the point: Having to screw in an oily bolt while oil is still being spilled onto your hands means it's an intermediate level job, b/c "easy" jobs don't have this issue.

As far as knowing "men" vs. "little bitches", you sound like you live an insulated life. White collar people don't learn how to skin deer and fix cars, but that doesn't make them "little bitches". In fact, they own you. Wake up.

people usually learn to wrench on their cars by necessity. has nothing to do with the internet, books, or whatever (there were hayes manuals long before the internet). you can either cry about how impossible it is to do, or you can get your hands dirty and figure it out.
I learned because i was young, poor, on my own, had a POS car, and a lead foot.

You must be from another generation. Today, about 60% of cars are leased. You know what that means? People don't own the cars they drive. So, many of these people don't even change the oil. EVER. This is why people can't open the hood anymore. They damn well don't learn to fix anything. The idea of learning to fix your car out of necessity is from another bygone quaint era.

Also, we live in a credit culture. Don't have money? Borrow it. Put the repair on a credit card. I have never heard of anyone trying to fix a car in the name of not having money in over 25 years.
 
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If you spend 25 hours tracking down a leak, and you earn $100/hr, you just pissed $2500 trying to save $100.


2 others already have. First, I used a vice grip to clamp onto the rubber hoses while trying to detach them. Also, the bizarre "clamp" notches needed tools to detach. I also used a screwdriver to pry up the clips on the box lid. There ya go: Tools

If it required 3 brain cells, you really think Jiffy Lube could charge $600/hr (pro rata) to replace air filters? Trust me, changing an air filter is complex sh/t for people who are busy with careers like doctor, lawyer, banker, or engineer.
I am an engineer and it takes me approximately 2 minutes with my thumbs and the remaining 3 brain cells management didn't manage to fry out of me yet. Most people are just afraid to try, and willing to pay the extra 10-20 bucks to just make the problem go away.

It might take 3 minutes and a little muttering if I decide I care whether the front clip (the one nearly obscured by the radiator fill neck) is clipped or not. That one is mildly annoying.

You need vise grips to grab the hoses? You have to disconnect the hoses? Just undo the clips, wiggle the top clamshell housing off, swap the filter, jam the housing back on and slap the clips on it. Even if you have to undo the hoses it takes a finger or two, and that ratcheting clamp on the big intake hose is as simple as lifting the ratcheting portion and pulling back with a finger and a thumb.

You don't NEED tools unless you are the weakest person in existence - I could do this with no tools when I was 12 and helping my dad work on his car.

Also if it takes you 25 hours to track down a vacuum leak you might look between your ears.

I honestly can't decide if you're a troll or just an accountant trying to fix his car... :kissyou:
 
People are dumbfounded when I tell them I know how to change the spark plugs on a car. (Plus, they don't really even know what a spark plug is) They literally don't know a single person who has done this, except their mechanic. Why do you think that is? I want you to think about that for a few days. Yes, they are afraid to try. But why? It only takes a fork, some duct tape, and 3 brain cells. Why can Jiffy Lube chrage $450/hr to change air filters? Yes, they are afraid to try. In fact, they don't even know where to begin, b/c it's not in their owner's manual. (Let's ignore the fact that they don't own welders, dremels, torches, drills, grinders, bench vices, tools, lifts, jacks, garages, etc). So, if it required 3 brain cells, why would they be scared to try?

Thought project of the weekl: Everyone changes their light bulbs. NO ONE fixes their cars. Why is that? After all, this shit is so easy, that a 12 year old with 1 arm can do it, right? I'll let you figure that out since you have even more than 3 brain cells!

Yes, I disconnected the hoses before removing the lid. Taking them off by hand requires that freakish blue collar finger grip strength developed over a lifetime of grabbing things all day.
Vacuum hoses get brittle. It's risky to bend them on a 14 year old car. Also, if the hose has not been removed in 14 years, it will stuck solid. I did not see enough play to remove the clamshell with hoses attached.
Also, all write ups indicate you detach the hoses.

And yes, I've seen threads here where people are trying to track down some idle issue for over a year. They could have bought a new car car if they spend all that wasted time simply working for minimum wage. Anyone thinking they're saving money is delusional. When you factor in oppty cost, this is a very expensive hobby like flying and skiing.
 
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Yes, I disconnected the hoses before removing the lid. Taking them off by hand requires that freakish blue collar grip strength developed over a lifetime of grabbing things all day. Vacuum hoses get brittle. It's risky to bend them on a 14 year old car. Also, if the hose has not been removed in 14 years, it will stuck solid.

And yes, I've seen threads here where people are trying to track down some idle issue for over a year. They could have bought a new car car if they spend all that wasted time simply working for minimum wage. Anyone thinking they're saving money is delusional. When you factor in oppty cost, this is a very expensive hobby like flying and skiing.

Why are you here...on an XJ enthusiast site trying to explain to people why the vehicle they love isn't as good as something else? If you like other vehicles so much, go bother the guys on their sites.
 
I never said anything about other cars being better. I have said working on BMW's is 100x easier than working on XJ's, but that's wasn't in this thread. In the quote above, I said working on cars to save money is bad logic. If you want to "save" money, spend every minute you dedicate on cars to simply working overtime, and pay the stealership to do every repair, and I guarantee you'll have money money in your bank account. Working on cars is an expensive hobby with a large opportunity cost. Do you think Zuck would have $30,000,000,000 in stock if he spent freshman year wrenching on a 1968 GTO? No. Want money? Work more. Wrench less.
 
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