Boostec Supercharger Information

[O-Gauge Steamer]

I believe that the kits they are referring to is the top mount ala Avenger style kits. It will use the stock manifold as a base. At least that was the plan when I last saw the prototype. They took the prototype to the last SEMA show in Las Vegas. Last I heard, Sprintex was working with Perfect Power to address the problems with the fuel/ignition control that the SMT-8L has. I had an issue with it that proved to be insolvable and resulted in my moving it out in favour of an AEM F/IC8 and new injectors. I went with the F/IC8 so as to gain speedometer calibration. The F/IC6 will work just fine. Just make sure you get the one for the Dodge Neon. Chrysler used a different from the rest of the world current value in the PCM to detect injector misfires. So, the Neon version of the F/IC6 has different load resistors in it to prevent CELs. The F/IC8 already has those resistors so it is a non-issue. Functionally, the PCM fires the F/IC and the F/IC fires the injectors. There is a delay but the AEM procesors are fast enough so as to make little to no difference. The AEM uses two processors to keep the signal latency to a minimum one processes and controls the injectors and the other spends it's time lying to the PCM about the Crank Position Sensor and the Camshaft Position Sensor signals. Both are digitally delayed to provide the spark retard you need under boost. I have had zero CEL events with the AEM. Only complaint is the O2 offset table does not want to play well with the Chyrco PCM and I need to in order to be able to run E85.

And trust me on this, you need the bigger compressor because we have tractor engines. You need the boost right now, not later. Going up Briargate (yah, I know) Blvd here in the Springs, I take the hill in OD at 40mph with about 2lbs of boost. If later is good then look to a Turbocharger. Boosterworks makes a beautiful manifold.

As far as I know, unlike Whipple, Sprintex will only sell complete kits. Whipple sells components for the do it yourselfer.

Once I am in a position to do the Whipple intallation, I will document it. Just don't hold your breath as I am stuck having to completely rebuild a Currie HP 9" rear. Changing out everything except the gear set and the Detroit. Not cheap (read in excess of $1.6k) when you have to pay for the labour...

Root Moose, there are two Stroker cranks as there are two basic Rover blocks. The 3.9/4.0 use the small mains and the larger displacement engines use the big mains. So... It will depend on what the Customer owns. Anyone remember the Buick all aluminium V-8? Rover bought the tooling when GM stopped building them. Lots of potential there. My friends and I are looking to build a blown 5.0 and swap it into a YJ. Should be fun...

 

[CobraMarty]

From Boostec:

Martin
I have units in stock. I use an AEM controller for fuel and timing control. I am three days out on resupply. Figure a week to ship. $3495 plus freight. Domestic freight is usually under $100. Feel free to call me at 719 331 8260 if you have any questions.
Rick

Hi, I am interested in purchasing a complete SC system/kit for 1998 Jeep Cherolee XJ 4.0L. Can you send my more info about availability and purchasing.
Thanks,Martin

I hope all the past 'issues' are cleared up. I am not interested in the top mount/ Avenger style. The AEM sounds like the way to go. Will the larger Sprintex SC fit the manifold? With the AEM, ddo you still have to run a 7th injector thru the SC to cool and lubricate it?

 

[Talyn]

ddo you still have to run a 7th injector thru the SC to cool and lubricate it?

I was unaware fuel lubricated a supercharger.

 

[CobraMarty]

The fuel will keep the rotors cool, keep them from expanding and hitting the housing and help 'lube'/aid in the sealing of the rotors and the housing. The bearings are still oil lubed. Many of these style SC's are 'wet' unlike turbos or centrifugal SC's which are 'dry'. The 7th injector thru the SC will also help to 'cool' the charge air sort of a liquid intercooling.

 

[CobraMarty]

The F/IC-6 for neon is #30-1913 vs. std F/IC is #30-1910
and F/IC-8 is #30-1930.

 

[CobraMarty]

Interesting that the 'larger' Sprintex 335 SC is only a little less than 1" longer than the 210 and the other dimensions are the same. It puts out 1.46L/rev or 89cubic inch/rev and up to 500HP and for 3-5 liter engines. It probably would fit but do you really need more than 300HP in a Jeep?

Fueling options seems to be: remember will need 30-40% more fuel than stock for HP
1) 30 lb injectors x 6 (180 lbs total fuel) with the F/IC-6 and no 7th injector or
2) stock 21-23 lb injectors x 6 with a 40-50 lb 7th injector controlled with a F/IC-8, and they can all be controlled with the same pulse width

I like the 7th injector and using the fuel as a liquid intercooler.

Any ideas or thoughts?

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Sprintex went with the extra injector not for cooling but for ease of installation. The perfect Power SMT8-L will only drive a single injector. A less expensive solution.

The larger compressor will not fit the as shipped Sprintex intake manifold (I looked) without modifying the manifold. The bypass valve bolts to the "side" of the manifold and is directly sandwiched between the compressor and the manifold. It would have to be moved which means a ton of quality machine shop work. It would involve milling a huge hole and then filling that hole with a weldment so as to relocate the bypass. And, there is very little room for error in the placement. It needs to be spot on in all three axis (X,Y and Z) for the bypass valve fitment.

The AEM F/IC can be used to control an "extra" injector. But, it only fires it when the number one injector fires. If it fired with all 6 it would be, in my opinion, a viable option. I elected to replace my stock injectors and disconnect the seventh's wiring. To do the conversion from the Perfect Power to the AEM set me back $1,00.00 in round numbers.

To my mind it is not a question of who needs the power as much as it is sizing the compressor correctly. A larger compressor will turn slower which will drop the discharge temperatures. Will the as shipped system work for you? Yup, you can bet it will. Will the F/IC you get be absolutely correct for your engine? Most likely not.

I believe and those of us that have Forced Induction will most likely agree, that you really do need to install a wideband O2 Sensor and tune the engine after installation. The tuninig software is free from the AEM site, you just need a laptop and some patience. I recommend that you get an OBDII interface for the laptop as well and here is why. You can monitor the Fuel Trims (Long and Short) during tuning. What you want is to have 5% Long Term Trim as a maximum and a 3% Short Term as a Maximum. As of my last edit, I'm at 4.6% average Long Term and 2.5% (average) Short Term. My AFR through out the range is in the mid 14s (we have "Oxygenated" fuel so I need to be at 14.2 AFR instead of 14.7...) under partial throttle and I dip into the mid to high 13s under WOT acceraltion. I pull the spark back depending on what the boost level is. So, you can see that I still have a way to go. The best and fastest way to tune is on a Load type Chassis Dynamometer. This will allow simulation of all driving conditions. We have one here in the Springs, but it is a spendy way for me to go. I am a Retired Engineer after all...

What I do is to record the runs I make. Recording both the OBDII data and the AEM data. Then I play back the data and look for places to tweak. It is time consuming but I can get it done without outside help.

I can say that I had pretty much nothing but issues with the SMT8-L and have had Zero issues with the AEM.

BTW, it was my input to Sprintex that caused them to look at the AEM F/IC6 to begin with... I am still providing feedback on the system's performance in my installation directly to Sprintex.

The F/IC6 works just fine, the only reason I went with the F/IC8 was to get the capability to correct the Speedometer. After looking at prices, it was cost effective, to me, to get the F/IC8. A Dakota Digital Speedometer unit lists for $85.00 or so. I paid about that, more or less, over the price of a F/IC6 and have one less piece of hardware as a result. Less wiring changes to make...

And no, I am not going to recommend an injector size. The ones I put in are for a "forward look" situation. I do not expect to stay a 4.0 Litres forever and did not want to have to buy two set of injectors. At the least, I will go to 4.5 Litres but, most likely I'll wind up at 4.7 Litres. Which is why I am looking at Whipple. Whipple does not make a Jeep Kit. They do sell components and some good friends of mine are in process of becoming a Dealer.

 

[kastein]

The AEM F/IC can be used to control an "extra" injector. But, it only fires it when the number one injector fires. If it fired with all 6 it would be, in my opinion, a viable option. I elected to replace my stock injectors and disconnect the seventh's wiring. To do the conversion from the Perfect Power to the AEM set me back $1,00.00 in round numbers.

Getting it to fire on all six would be trivial, but I am not sure how you would adjust the 7th injector's pulsewidth to compensate, since the interposer is designed with only one firing in mind. You would have to cut each firing of the 7th to approx 1/6 duration if I am not completely wrong.

 

[urban yan]

Did I mention how this thread makes me giggle uncontrollably on the inside.
Suddenly my outdated M90 is better suited for the 4.0L over the sprintex S5-210 (an M62 equivalent), the 7th injector was more trouble than its worth while the Perfect Power box was, in fact, ill suited for our Jeeps. I’d be shocked if I wasn’t the one who alluded to those points in the first place.

Yesterday I emailed Sprintec and they wrote back;
Hi Martin,
Thank you for your enquiry.
Our Jeep kits are in the final stages of development. They will be on the market soon.
Our US dealer is Boostec US. www.boostecus.com They will be able to supply the systems and answer any questions you have.
Regards
Mark Ambrosius
Sales Coordinator

They've been in the final stages of development since January 2010.

The fuel will keep the rotors cool

Fuel run through certain superchargers can take years off their life. At least that’s what Rick told me when I mentioned that I didn’t want to keep the 7th injector on my M90. He also told me not to worry because I would, most likely, sell my Jeep after 60k miles, so it would be the next guy’s problem. Classy.

Getting it to fire on all six would be trivial, but I am not sure how you would adjust the 7th injector's pulsewidth to compensate, since the interposer is designed with only one firing in mind. You would have to cut each firing of the 7th to approx 1/6 duration if I am not completely wrong.

I consider this a moot point. You need to ask yourself just how many aftermarket and factory superchargers you see running an extra injector. It’s a lazy solution... only this time it caught up with Rick, and it’s costing him more time to fix it.

 

[CobraMarty]

I see what you are saying about the bypass valve lining up with an inch longer compressor. I only see it as minor details and easily fixed with cut and weld. But it is just another problem to have to deal with.

I have an innovate wideband O2 sensor and the jeep is already plumbed for it. We had it on to look at the stock A/F ratios. We monitor the OB2 port with a couple of different pieces.

The 7th injector is fine even if it fires with #1 cylinder (this is not a sequential system) and it can add the 35-40% additional fuel easily. You do have to be able to remove/cut the 'added fuel' from the other 6 injectors up til boost.

I wish the jeeps had a knock sensor as that would just add a bit of safety.

You do need to control the fuel curve and the ignition and the AEM makes the most sense.

Keep it coming. I like this stuff.

 

[urban yan]

I'm trying to understand why you would want to pay so much for that kit only to modify every single component that comes with it?

 

[CobraMarty]

I am more concerned about the fuel system-fuel pump, FP regulator, line size and rail size keeping up with the added fuel requirements. Much over 300HP will require bigger FP and regulator and return lines. Not interested in that, or going that far with the jeep.

 

[CobraMarty]

What is there to modify and spend money on? It comes with all the good stuff and AEM. Just tuning is needed. I have all the ancillary/necessary things already. $3500 is really a pretty good price for this. Now if delivery is possible...

 

[urban yan]

Oh that's right, I keep forgetting that boostec switched to an AEM... after calling me an idiot for suggesting they use one in the first place.

You say the kit's a very good price, but consider that -- even with the AEM -- you still have a blower that's too small for our engines, and you still need to buy 6 new injectors because the 7th injector setup is utter nonsense.

 

[CobraMarty]

It's fair to agree to disagree. The blower will be just fine, only looking for 5.5-6.5 pounds boost and 5000prm max. Already have 62mm TB which will help in a draw thru SC, and have banks revolver headers and 2.5" magnaflow exhaust.

The 7th injector will be fine if you know what you're doing and how to set it up. Have you thought about the boost pressure exerted against the stock injectors and how they will have to overcome that pressure to put out the same fuel where the 7th injector doesn't have that issue.

Bla Bla Bla... sorry about your sour grapes and disappointment. Early/first kits are always trying and difficult and not for the amatuer tuner. Glad the SC is now working out for you.

 

[Talyn]

I believe and those of us that have Forced Induction will most likely agree, that you really do need to install a wideband O2 Sensor and tune the engine after installation.

I believe with any significant power modification (stroker, turbo, super) that one should use a Wideband.

What I do is to record the runs I make. Recording both the OBDII data and the AEM data. Then I play back the data and look for places to tweak. It is time consuming but I can get it done without outside help.

Same thing I do. Another nice thing about the AEM is that you can feed it an analog output from a wideband sensor unit and it will log that as well. So you don't have to have 3 programs to look the logs of (OBD, AEM, wideband). You only have two... the only thing better would be if the AEM also logged the OBD as well

 

[CobraMarty]

If only the AEM would use that wideband info. to adjust to target A/F ratios. Maybe next generation.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Well, AEM does make Engine Management Systems... Capable of dealing with boost.

 

[gradon]

Yan: will you please install the m90 already? Also, the attitude brought into various posts by O isn't helping anybody and makes you look bitter(even if we knew the 7th injector wasn't ideal, and the AEM is better than the SMT).

 

[urban yan]

Yan: will you please install the m90 already? Also, the attitude brought into various posts by O isn't helping anybody and makes you look bitter(even if we knew the 7th injector wasn't ideal, and the AEM is better than the SMT).

I honestly couldn't care less if I sound bitter. People who know me, in person, know I'm an easy going guy (a push-over even), so you'll indulge me when I take some time off from being that nice guy to speak my mind.

Now, for anyone who wants to buy a Rick Rimmer system than be my guest. It's your funeral. They're not easy to install by amateurs like Rick implies, and god help you if you ever need help. People will turn on you rather than give you a helping hand. If you have 3.5k to spend than build or buy yourself stroker, and stay away from Rick's empty promises.


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