BART Police Officer Executes Hand-Cuffed Man?!

[Coastie]

The cop that pulled the trigger has now resigned because of public threats.
Thats a start in the right direction. .

So you're advocating violence as a a way to get things done?

 

[Ray H]

So you're advocating violence as a a way to get things done?

In a round about way, I guess I am.

 

[8Mud]

Whatever happened to the good old days when a LEO was supposed to try to lower the level of force and not escalate it. At some point the training must have changed.

The system is mostly broken and in my opinion has been for 30 years or more. When you get some stand off and perspective, it becomes easier to see.
Sooner or later the system (they) are going to antagonize enough people the system just isn't going to function anymore.
Human rights are for the abused and oppressed in other countries.
I'd like to see some statistics, if the growth of law enforcement parallels the population growth in general or is it growing at a faster pace than the population in general. True statistics, not massaged statistics.
I've heard the percentage of the population incarcerated has never been higher and there seems to be no shortage of criminals.
Law enforcement seems to be a growth industry, in all likelihood for many reasons. Pissing on or pissing off the population with increasing frequency may be one reason, if you run short of criminals grow your own.

 

[Ray H]

Cops are always trained to first use verbal communication. There's always been good training for cops to de-escalate all situations, never to escalate the situation...... unless the subject's actions dictate otherwise. But cops have never been trained to take a punch, stab or bullet from anyone posing such a threat. Taking actions just above that being taken by the subject IS de-escalation. He grabs, I apply a control hold or pressure point application and cuff him, he punches or attempts a punch, I tase him, he pulls a weapon....... I put him down. Same applies if the subject is using this kind of force on anyone OTHER than me as well. The end result is de-escalation.

I think my grasp is in line with yours. I agree with what you describe above. The problem is that isnt the trend Im seeing today. What Im seeing, and have experienced is someone turns away and they get tazed, I mention a firearm and Im drawn on, someone fights and swings and they are shot. this isnt the "escalation" you are describing. Thats why I asked the question.

 

[8Mud]

Doesn't sound like you have a good grasp of the concept. You're more grounded on the verbal de-escalation. All cops receive training on verbal de-escalation...... but words aren't going to always keep bad things from happening. In a perfect world, EVERYONE would simply want to stop and talk things through - but history dictates otherwise.

Cops are always trained to first use verbal communication. There's always been good training for cops to de-escalate all situations, never to escalate the situation...... unless the subject's actions dictate otherwise. But cops have never been trained to take a punch, stab or bullet from anyone posing such a threat. Taking actions just above that being taken by the subject IS de-escalation. He grabs, I apply a control hold or pressure point application and cuff him, he punches or attempts a punch, I tase him, he pulls a weapon....... I put him down. Same applies if the subject is using this kind of force on anyone OTHER than me as well. The end result is de-escalation.

Calling someone an ignoramus seems like a reasonable way to deescalate the situation. (_*_)

 

[PurpleCherokee]

Calling someone an ignoramus seems like a reasonable way to deescalate the situation. (_*_)

Bingo.

 

[8Mud]

Bingo.

My apologies, I must be full of chit Ürple agrees with me.
Want to be my bud Ürple? Stay on the other side of any discussion I participate in, pleeease.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

The problem is that isnt the trend Im seeing today. What Im seeing, and have experienced is someone turns away and they get tazed, I mention a firearm and Im drawn on, someone fights and swings and they are shot. this isnt the "escalation" you are describing. Thats why I asked the question.

Seeing? - I know the media LOVES to show it's version of what happened.

Experienced? - Are you saying you've personally been involved in a resisting, a tasing, a shooting to where you can claim experience? Just asking, not challenging you here......

I can certainly make this claim and the general public isn't the same either as they used to be either.

For the record, I have used deadly force. 7/3/99........ changed my whole perspective on how I was going to conduct myself when confronted with an aggressive person.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Calling someone an ignoramus seems like a reasonable way to deescalate the situation. (_*_)

LOL! Nope, just an opinion.....

 

[MT Mike]

TOTY, would you shut up?!? No one cares about your misinformed ramblings. Go away.

 

[PurpleCherokee]

My apologies, I must be full of chit Ürple agrees with me.
Want to be my bud Ürple? Stay on the other side of any discussion I participate in, pleeease.

:doh:

You don't know what you're talking about. I know it hurts, but it's ok for someone to know more than you about a particular subject. And you're showing your ignorance by labeling someone as being "full of chit" for no reason.

 

[ECKSJAY]

:doh:

You don't know what you're talking about. I know it hurts, but it's ok for someone to know more than you about a particular subject. And you're showing your ignorance by labeling someone as being "full of chit" for no reason.

I'm going to bet you remind him of his wife, too. I do, apparently. :shhh:

 

[Boatwrench]

Seems reasonable enough to assume that folks know a cop when they see the uniform and to take aggressive action toward a cop isn't going to be a smart decision - in any realm of thought.

Well stated point.

but about the robot comments...and all being the same...Yes everyone is an individual and reacts differently in all situations. What about POST? Doesn't that negate your response?

 

[Boatwrench]

This morning's total:

No deaths. Two officers & one reporter injured enough to seek medical. Two cars burned, many more vandalized. One dumpster fire, store front glass broken no reports of Looter Dude present.

Round Two begins at 0900 PST. The professional anarchists (those are the young white people wearing masks) are calling for more protests this morning at the Federal Building.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Give me a D, Give me an O, Give me a U, Give me a C, give me an H, Give me an E! whats that spell...................PURPLE!!!!!!!

 

[msrorysddad]

I enjoy the way the conversation has evolved into a "can you see how the cops have become more aggressive" deal. Look at the lack of respect "most" people show for others in general and law enforcement in general. I will give you my .02$ walk through most neighborhoods and tell me of your experience. I'm sure the youth will be helpful and kind. We as a nation have raised more than a generation of folks that believe fighting the "cops" is the right thing to do. Someone on this thread stated they thought violence was a good way to get things done. The lack of respect some teach the youth is the problem. When a police officer fears for his life because of society, well... I cannot see what happened well enough to tell the officers intent. However, I will state if we ever get in a confrontation, and I feel threatened I will, beat, shoot, stab, till I feel less threatened. The "protests" (read riots) prove out my point, we'll riot!!!No respect for others, I say dismantle the government, disband all LEO and let's get on with the fun.

 

[Ray H]

Seeing? - I know the media LOVES to show it's version of what happened. .

The media shows video. The one in question was shot by a private citizen. As for bias, Im not sure where they stand, I think they just want the business.

Experienced? - Are you saying you've personally been involved in a resisting, a tasing, a shooting to where you can claim experience? Just asking, not challenging you here...... .

See post 99. It wouldve been a shooting if his finger twitched, too close for me.

I can certainly make this claim and the general public isn't the same either as they used to be either. .

Agreed. Maybe they are just reacting to the public. Maybe the only thing that has really changed is that there are cameras everywhere now.
I know my stepfather (retired cop) and many of his friends used to carry drop guns sealed in a plastic bag, number ground off and prints cleaned off, because "mistakes happen". Back in the day a drop gun wouldve found its way into the kid's hand and there would be no story.
I know its off topic but Im not a militant, cop hater. I react to cops the same way I react to other people. I treat them the way they treat me, sometimes its with respect, sometimes its not. They dont get special privilage because of the job they do.
You immediately called me an ignoramus. Thats fine, I didnt say anything because there is nothing I can do about it over the internet. Had you done that for no reason during a traffic stop, I wouldve given it right back at you and who knows what wouldve happened after that, I would probably ended up in jail or worse. I mean the nerve of a civilian talking to YOU like that, I need to learn a lesson. Honestly, I mean honestly, tell me thats not what wouldve happened?

 

[Ray H]

II feel threatened I will, beat, shoot, stab, till I feel less threatened. The "protests" (read riots) prove out my point, we'll riot!!!No respect for others, I say dismantle the government, disband all LEO and let's get on with the fun.

You said it right there. If you feel threatened, you will resort to violence. You dont think that may be the reason for the riots?
Ive said it a couple of times, when a person (or group) feels threatened they react, they defend, they strike out, it doesnt matter who is wearing a badge.

 

[98XJROKS]

I didn't hear them say he was cuffed, or even see the incident for that matter? I heard the shot and the video moving a lot.

 

[msrorysddad]

Ray, thank you. You just made my point. He called you a name simply for expressing a POV. The respect thing goes both ways, the young cops are raised the same way as the young criminals. I had a young cop talk trash to me and told him, I'd be more than happy to join him in a round of fisticuffs. His older partner told me, he would like to see nothing more than me slapping his young apprentice around. I was concerned, why had the older officer not instilled in the younger some respect? I was told by a wise man once (cop) you will either respect me or fear me, I do not care which, however, I demand one. I came to the conclusion then, to remedy the problem you can't always shout the other guy's a weenie and win. The lack of respect we have taught our youth is coming back to haunt us. I will quote the wise Reverend Wright, "America's chickens have come home to roost"