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Another shooting....

you can say that again....your logic couldn't be more wrong. I mean it's ridiculously wrong. It's beyond a logical fallacy. It's totally unfounded.
There's a time and place to be condescending, and a time and place to show some proof... minus the the atypical Hitler/Stalin comparisons of course. My idea of the NG wasn’t etched in stone.... I was merely looking at a some type of umbrella organization that trains everyone to be more proficient with their guns, offers mental health programs (or information, or screening), and logistics to quickly mount a militia against that tyranny you guys are so adamant about.... it doesn’t have to be at the federal level... it could be state run.... heck even municipal.


as far as the guns go with registering and the straw purchase theory that isn't going to change anything. a straw purchase means the buyer is someone who can buy the gun legally, then gives it to someone who can't. more laws won't matter because the buyer is LEGAL. that's like cracking down on under age drinking by having 3 forms of ID to buy booze, someone over 21 will buy it with their 3 IDs then give it to kids. nothing solved.
So you think it’s ok for the quote unquote “good guy” to buy a dozen guns and sell them to the bad guy? .... I say “bad guy” because responsible folks can easily get their guns from any gun shop without said middleman. If you want to sell guns in that fashion than open up your own gun shop.... otherwise show some goddamn responsibility and think where those guns might land.


registering guns makes sense, we can register them like we do vehicles because that's what prevents accidents and DUIs right? oh wait...... that's just so we can get taxed on them and pay the government money.
A registered vehicle makes a person accountable for their accidents and DUIs.


Urban Yan wonders why we're so concerned with our government, maybe because over the last ten years they've passed legislation that would allow them to bypass several of our rights, you know, to stop terrorists. Unfortunately they've broadened the term "terrorist" to include just about anyone that speaks out against the government. at this point "terrorist" is just a euphemism for "political dissident" to our government.
and yet you guys have all those guns to prevent your dystopic tyranny, and you haven't used them to set your government strait. You rather do nothing.... well... except argue with some crazy canuck over “teh internets” while – as you’ve alluded to – your country is falling apart.
 
I was merely looking at a some type of umbrella organization that trains everyone to be more proficient with their guns, offers mental health programs (or information, or screening), and logistics to quickly mount a militia against that tyranny you guys are so adamant about.... it doesn’t have to be at the federal level... it could be state run.... heck even municipal.
.

there is such an organization.....it's called "the people"
 
registering guns makes sense, we can register them like we do vehicles because that's what prevents accidents and DUIs right? oh wait...... that's just so we can get taxed on them and pay the government money.

Registration is the first step in confiscation.
 
Yan, you don't understand how a straw buy works. The buyer can legally buy the gun, he complies with all laws, regulations, permits or what ever other hoops he must jump through to buy said gun. He then sells or gives it to a person who can not buy it legally. That is a straw buy and 100% illegal. A felony. Making more laws wont help because the "buyer" is legal anway and no majic way to stop them from doing so, just hopefully being a law abiding person is enough.

How does registering a vehicle make you a countable for your accidents? The point is it does not PREVENT them which is the theory that people are trying to say about guns. Registering them somehow will prevent crime. How will it?

Weather or not your jeep is registered wont matter if you hit another car or get a DUI, just add to the list of shit you're getting charged with.
 
BTW. In Utah it's illegal to make a straw purchase even if the other guy is legal to own guns.

An example...

My employer screwed up my pay and owed me about $6400 in back pay. I knew it was coming so I decided to buy an AR-10. Looked all over the state and finally found the one I wanted in Provo, about 60 miles away. Drove down, put it on lay a way to hold it till I got my check. My dad went with me and as we left the store he said that he had the money. He would loan it to me and I could pay him back when I got my check.

We went back to the gun store and they wouldn't touch it. Even though we were both legal CCW holders, the fact that the gun was in my name on hold and the check to pay for it was my dads, they could lose their FFL over that.
 
The point is straw purchases can not be stopped by more laws. No more discussion needed about them.

The ONLY possible improvement would be linking mental health to your background check. If you were committed or something similar that disqualifies you from buying guns it could show up on the check.
 
Registration is the first step in confiscation.
Do you honestly think the US government has the capacity take 300million guns away from Americans.... they can’t even tie their own shoelaces.


Yan, you don't understand how a straw buy works. The buyer can legally buy the gun, he complies with all laws, regulations, permits or what ever other hoops he must jump through to buy said gun. He then sells or gives it to a person who can not buy it legally. That is a straw buy and 100% illegal. A felony. Making more laws wont help because the "buyer" is legal anway and no majic way to stop them from doing so, just hopefully being a law abiding person is enough.
They did mention that allot of guns are getting into, Chicago, for example via straw purchases. They mentioned that the original buyer can claim their weapon was stolen if it’s ever traced back to them. I mentioned Chicago because it’s often used by the NRA as an example of gun laws gone wrong.


How does registering a vehicle make you a countable for your accidents? The point is it does not PREVENT them which is the theory that people are trying to say about guns. Registering them somehow will prevent crime. How will it?
Weather or not your jeep is registered wont matter if you hit another car or get a DUI, just add to the list of shit you're getting charged with .
Registered vehicles don’t completely eliminate accidents, but it certainly makes life easier for law enforcement to trace perpetrators (hit and runs, etc...). That form of accountability keeps allot of people honest. Hey, registries aren’t such a foreign concept either; the NRA did want to make a database of the mentally ill.


there is such an organization.....it's called "the people"
Here's the flaw with that generalization. People are part of a society, and societies have rules (and synergies). You can't say that you believe in the people only to stockpile guns in perpetual fear of those very same people. That's not the mindset of a functioning human in a functioning society, but rather it's comparable to some solitary animal like the wolverine -- a fearful, pissed off loner that only meets its own kind to breed.
 
Here's the flaw with that generalization. People are part of a society, and societies have rules (and synergies). You can't say that you believe in the people only to stockpile guns in perpetual fear of those very same people. That's not the mindset of a functioning human in a functioning society, but rather it's comparable to some solitary animal like the wolverine -- a fearful, pissed off loner that only meets its own kind to breed.

i really don't know what you're saying here.
 
There's a time and place to be condescending, and a time and place to show some proof... minus the the atypical Hitler/Stalin comparisons of course. My idea of the NG wasn’t etched in stone.... I was merely looking at a some type of umbrella organization that trains everyone to be more proficient with their guns, offers mental health programs (or information, or screening), and logistics to quickly mount a militia against that tyranny you guys are so adamant about.... it doesn’t have to be at the federal level... it could be state run.... heck even municipal.

It's called the CMP.

In February 1903, an amendment to the War Department Appropriations Bill established the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice (NBPRP). This government advisory board became the predecessor to today’s Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. that now governs the CMP. The 1903 legislation also established the National Matches, commissioned the National Trophy and provided funding to support the Matches. This historic legislation grew out of a desire to improve military marksmanship and national defense preparedness. President Theodore Roosevelt, Secretary of War Elihu Root and NRA President General Bird Spencer were among the most important supporters of this act.



So you think it’s ok for the quote unquote “good guy” to buy a dozen guns and sell them to the bad guy? .... I say “bad guy” because responsible folks can easily get their guns from any gun shop without said middleman. If you want to sell guns in that fashion than open up your own gun shop.... otherwise show some goddamn responsibility and think where those guns might land.

and running private sales of regular people through a government registry is going to stop the people that are breaking the law already how?


and yet you guys have all those guns to prevent your dystopic tyranny, and you haven't used them to set your government strait. You rather do nothing.... well... except argue with some crazy canuck over “teh internets” while – as you’ve alluded to – your country is falling apart.

think long term. or in the short term think fiscal collapse and chaos. It's not just tyranny that we should be prepared for. Where's the government going to be to take care of people when it collapses. Oh sure, that will never happen...
Our government hasn't even produced a proper budget in the last 4 years, do you really think I can trust them to not screw up our economy into a giant recession?

Do you honestly think the US government has the capacity take 300million guns away from Americans.... they can’t even tie their own shoelaces.

You can if you write bans that don't allow for transfer, or if you control all of the transfers. The ATF issues FFL's solely at it's own discretion. You're asking gun owners to put a bureaucracy with very little accountability in charge of every firearm transfer. What happens when they just stop issuing licenses? now you've got no legal way to transfer a firarm, so when you die it must be destroyed. So in a few generations you've got no firearms.

They did mention that allot of guns are getting into, Chicago, for example via straw purchases. They mentioned that the original buyer can claim their weapon was stolen if it’s ever traced back to them. I mentioned Chicago because it’s often used by the NRA as an example of gun laws gone wrong.
Again, straw purchases are already a felony. The local dealers have the 4473 on file and must surrender it to any law enforcement. It's easy to track down firearms sold through a dealer, but people still do straw purchases. money motivates them to take the risk.

How about we stop the war on drugs instead? Wouldn't it be easier to stop the gang funding that finances most straw purchases?

Registered vehicles don’t completely eliminate accidents, but it certainly makes life easier for law enforcement to trace perpetrators (hit and runs, etc...). That form of accountability keeps allot of people honest. Hey, registries aren’t such a foreign concept either; the NRA did want to make a database of the mentally ill.
As I said, it's possible to find a firearm sold through a dealer already. There are already federal laws prohibiting a registry. Even if that manages to pass, how many owners do you think would participate? The Canadian long arm registry failed miserably and cost your nation a lot of money.
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-12-18-48-21

I think he is referring to this......no, wait, this factual occurence of armed citizens having to take the law into their own hands to restore order because the local politicians/military/ police are corrupt and collaborate with the drugs lords/gangs is the complete opposite of what Urban is referring to.

Corrupt leaders with evil intent, who thrive on the exploitation of their citizens have been around since the world was created.

Prime example of why our Founders had the wisdom to include the 2nd Amendment.

America is a unique experiment that the rest of the world looks up to.....or despises, depending on which side they are on.

You compared those who "stockpile" arms to a wolverine? Wait, I just had a Red Dawn flashback, (original, not the remake)........a fictional tale of well armed citizens (what our FF would call a militia) nicknamed "Wolverines", after the local HS team mascot, used their community "stockpile" of arms, food and fuel to battle foreign invaders on US soil.

Well done, Urban........well done.
 
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Forget all the 2A crap and founding fathers stuff and look at facts. Guns are a hobby, they are fun, a collection, some people go shooting on weekends others go off roading in sometimes a jeep that's "impractical" or has no real need for. I mean who needs 35in tires or a jeep that isn't road legal?

Guns are fun and safe, how many people actually die from RIFLES every year.... 350ish
"Assault weapons" are an even smaller number than that and I think unknown since they do not track that, just "pistol" or "rifle" was used to kill.

I have suppressors, a Mac-11 machine gun, a few ARs, AK-74U "Krink", even an M-203 40mm grenade launcher. It's my version of golf or instead of building a rock buggy I build guns. Rather than actualy fixing the problem or actually admitting we are a violent culture we just throw guns under the bus.
 
You compared those who "stockpile" arms to a wolverine? Wait, I just had a Red Dawn flashback, (original, not the remake)........a fictional tale of well armed citizens (what our FF would call a militia) nicknamed "Wolverines", after the local HS team mascot, used their community "stockpile" of arms, food and fuel to battle foreign invaders on US soil.
lol.ok.
Quick question, do you remember the precise moment you started to lose your grip on reality?


and running private sales of regular people through a government registry is going to stop the people that are breaking the law already how?
I’m sorry, but that is the ultimate catch 22 excuse used to avoid doing anything whatsoever.


think long term. or in the short term think fiscal collapse and chaos. It's not just tyranny that we should be prepared for. Where's the government going to be to take care of people when it collapses. Oh sure, that will never happen...
I rather nip things in the bud. You guys seem to have the foresight of imminent collapse, and yet you rather sit things out while the world burns. If you think your government has truly failed you, than do something about it sooner than later.


As I said, it's possible to find a firearm sold through a dealer already. There are already federal laws prohibiting a registry. Even if that manages to pass, how many owners do you think would participate? The Canadian long arm registry failed miserably and cost your nation a lot of money.
Actually, quite a few Canadian police departments would disagree with that claim; unfortunately we voted (myself included) for a government modelling themselves too much after the US system. I won't be voting conservative again.


Forget all the 2A crap and founding fathers stuff and look at facts. Guns are a hobby, they are fun, a collection, some people go shooting on weekends others go off roading in sometimes a jeep that's "impractical" or has no real need for. I mean who needs 35in tires or a jeep that isn't road legal? .
I agree with that comment whole-heartedly ... mostly because none of those comments were based on paranoid rationale.


Guns are fun and safe, how many people actually die from RIFLES every year.... 350ish
"Assault weapons" are an even smaller number than that and I think unknown since they do not track that, just "pistol" or "rifle" was used to kill.
Safe is a relative term.... it depends on the owner (that includes guns, cars, anything really). I never wanted to ban guns, I wanted to see a better gun owner.
 
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what you do not realize that deceiving the people is not beyond the goverment, there are files that have been declasified proving they had tried to implement these things before for other reasons so it is not beyond them to do it again, Operation Northwoods is one of them, here is a link you can check it out for yourself, it also links to the actual documents to prove it
http://wanttoknow.info/010501operationnorthwoods

Remember, it is not be parinoid if the danger is real
 
lol.ok.
Quick question, do you remember the precise moment you started to lose your grip on reality?
.

Reality is that you ignore factual data and instead, choose to focus on the clearly stated fictional and obviously sacastic portion of my post, in yet another failed attempt to minimize and discredit.

:thumbup:
 
Do you honestly think the US government has the capacity take 300million guns away from Americans.... they can’t even tie their own shoelaces.

Yes. It will breakdown into a civil war, but yes the US government has the capability.
 
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