Abortion

Abortion..........It brings out the little kid in you. :D







For the record I'm pro-choice (if its within reason- not just as a form of birth control) and absolutely pro-death penalty.
 
Saw this on a bumper sticker the other day. "If a fetus that the conservatives wanted to save turned out to be gay, would they still protect it?"

I hate politics.....
 
lol indeed. Would conservatives save the next ricky martin?
rickymartin_speedo_03.jpg
 
Seems to me legal abortion is needed to solve the unwanted child problem, the unwanted child from rape problem, the population problem, and the health risks associated with illegal abortions. Adoption is a great solution but won't handle 52 million unwanted. I would prefer to see society encourage sterilization than to provide multiple abortions to someone who won't learn to protect.
 
Hey, illegal abortions might help the overpopulation problem even more! Gets rid of the babies and the irresponsible women who can't keep their legs closed?
 
See I don't care about a ball of cells or half grown fetus laying in a dumpster. I don't even consider that a person, just because it's human doesn't make it a person.

You seem so concerned about the babies life what kind of a life would it be to grow up without a family? What kind of a chance does a kid really have like that, not all are as lucky as my brother.

Show me your numbers, what to you is "most". How many homes have you ever stepped foot in? How many kids have to talked to that grew up in child services and didn't get picked up?

Why would you really rather a 16 year old girl and boy who made a big mistake to pay for it for the rest of their lives instead of ending the mistake and going on to be successful productive members of society?
One of my best friends when I was growing up was adopted. He seemed pretty happy. He was even adopted by a single woman. Never heard a complaint from either of them.

A girl I knew in high school got pregnant and a junior and decided to give her baby up for adoption. Within a month or so, a family was found and they became active in the pre-natal care, helping out with things and then adopted the child right off the bat.

No matter what, the argument boils down to two main issues:

  1. When does life actually begin? Whether you care about a half formed fetus or not, is it a life? Give me some science to back it up. From what I've read, science goes back and forth on the subject. Again, if there's a chance that is actually a baby, do you really want to kill it?
  2. Personal responsibility. If you're grown enough to do what makes babies, you're grown enough to know the risks and the means to avoid those risks.
 
Allot of the guys here keep trying to ground this debate in reality.
A lot of the guys in this thread are trying to ground it in the reality you agree with. Just because it matches your beliefs best doesn't make it automatically correct.
 
One of my best friends when I was growing up was adopted. He seemed pretty happy. He was even adopted by a single woman. Never heard a complaint from either of them.

A girl I knew in high school got pregnant and a junior and decided to give her baby up for adoption. Within a month or so, a family was found and they became active in the pre-natal care, helping out with things and then adopted the child right off the bat.

The high school I went to was one of the better public schools in the state, plenty of donations and funding from rich families and crap (I hated that place). They had an unwritten policy... "if you get pregnant, we don't want you here, we have an image to keep." I knew a couple girls that got pregnant, and were pressured by the administration until they had enough and left for the "backup" school. There was another high school a few miles away where the kids that couldn't get better than Cs, had behavioral problems, etc were sent to, and that's where the girls would end up. This school is about as low end as you'll find round there, and the only alternative to the school I went to without moving and changing districts.
So... fawk up your education, be kicked out of a school with a 98% graduation rate and put in a school with a 45% grad rate, carry it around for 9 months and lose your friends and social life (which IMO is pretty important to developing social skills for life), go through labor and child birth and all those other great things that make me glad I'm a guy, just to give the damn thing away? Or terminate the group of cells early on, make peace with your decision, learn from it and move on?



No matter what, the argument boils down to two main issues:

  1. When does life actually begin? Whether you care about a half formed fetus or not, is it a life? Give me some science to back it up. From what I've read, science goes back and forth on the subject. Again, if there's a chance that is actually a baby, do you really want to kill it?
  2. Personal responsibility. If you're grown enough to do what makes babies, you're grown enough to know the risks and the means to avoid those risks.


I disagree. It's not so much "when does life begin," but rather "at what point is that life form a person, and has the rights that go with it."
I think we can all agree that a group of a few dozen cells that will likely become a baby is by scientific terms life. But is that group of a few dozen cells any different than a few dozen cells that might become a dog, or a horse, or a tree? And if so, how? At that point in time it's just a few cells with no distinguishable characteristics of anything... yes, it has the potential to become a baby, but legally you can't make convictions based upon potential.

Personally, I support abortions as long as they fit these criteria:

1. It isn't being done as retroactive birth control and the mother hasn't had an abortion before... first time, fine, accidents happen, but twice and you're just dumb (excluding medical reasons, rape, and incest).

2. At 45 days, the skeleton is complete, reflexes are present, and the fetus begins to show signs of brain function (waves are recorded).
Prior to that, it's a collection of cells that, under any other circumstance, would be classified as a tumor. After that, it's an almost-person with brain activity, and ending that life is not very different than ending the life of a 5 year old, a 15 year old, or a 50 year old person.
 
Urban hit it dead on. I have a daughter, and I try my best to teach her about her responsibility.
We have a problem as humans. We have gotten to a point where we expect everything to be easy, if it feels good do it. Then we can deal with the repercussions later. A pill, a lotion, there has to be a cure???
The answer to the debate is personal responsibility.
Urban, buddy, I'm glad I've had the chance to read what you write, we may not agree on much, however, I do enjoy your thinking. Thank you
 
Personal responsibility. If you're grown enough to do what makes babies, you're grown enough to know the risks and the means to avoid those risks.
I'm sorry, WHAT?!

50% of the people I run into don't fit this bill and they're all at least well into their 20s. That being said, I do agree with you on this.

Personally, I support abortions as long as they fit these criteria:

1. It isn't being done as retroactive birth control and the mother hasn't had an abortion before... first time, fine, accidents happen, but twice and you're just dumb (excluding medical reasons, rape, and incest).

2. At 45 days, the skeleton is complete, reflexes are present, and the fetus begins to show signs of brain function (waves are recorded).
Prior to that, it's a collection of cells that, under any other circumstance, would be classified as a tumor. After that, it's an almost-person with brain activity, and ending that life is not very different than ending the life of a 5 year old, a 15 year old, or a 50 year old person.
Dunno... I agree aside from the 45 day bit (go figure) - but other than that, yeah. Early on I don't really see a problem with it...

I really like the point about when life starts vs other ways of deciding - if it was about when life started, I would be a Jain, seeing as animals, insects, and hell even bacteria are alive.

When it's a ball of cells with no distinguishable human features, no brain, no consciousness/self awareness, still attached to the uterine wall... as far as I am concerned it is still part of the mother and what she does with it is up to her.
 
45 days is just the common consensus / average on when brain activity begins. If your fetus shows signs of brain function at 35 days, than go off that.
 
Allot of the guys here keep trying to ground this debate in reality.

You, on the other hand, keep running for the books. Yes, the abortion procedure's appalling as are the stats, but unless you have a real-world solution that: a) doesn't rob women of their rights b) protects the fetus than your comments are theoretical at best, preachy at worst. It's utterly ignorant to think the world's going to turn into one full of sunshine lollipops and rainbows simply because you demand it.

Oh, if you're still keen arguing with me than I suggest you look into the shitshow that happened in Romania when it's communist government outlawed abortions.

Do you really believe the world is a better place since some Socialists were successful in legalizing baby murder? 52,000,000 dead babies might disagree.....

Odd that facts confuse you so much......which "other guys" besides yourself are confused by reality?

Opinion and reality are not the same, unless of coarse, one uses reality to form their opinion, based on facts.


Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

No. 40: Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

FWIW, your Socialist/Communist tactics........not working.

:wave1:


EDIT:
Women shouldn't jam out with their clam out.
Guys shouldn't rock out with their c0ck out.

problem solved /thread

AGREED
 
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Do you really believe the world is a better place since some Socialists were successful in legalizing baby murder? 52,000,000 dead babies might disagree.....

The communist Romanian government abolished abortions back in the late 80s.
Protecting human life seems logical? Right? Unfortunately, dropping off babies became so easy the population stopped taking responsibility for their pregnancies, more children entered state-run orphanages', those orphanages became inundated, and incapable of meeting those kids most basic needs. The result was the creation of new sub-class in Romania... illiterate, incapable of working, etc....

I'm all for saving lives, but I'm also a realist. Screaming murder won't solve the problem. So again, unless you have a real-world solution that: a) doesn't rob women of their rights b) protects the fetus than your comments are theoretical at best, preachy at worst.




Odd that facts confuse you so much......which "other guys" besides yourself are confused by reality?
Opinion and reality are not the same, unless of coarse, one uses reality to form their opinion, based on facts.
Put the bottle down son. You're not Polish or Canadian; clearly you can't handle your vodka or whiskey. Stick to light beer.




No. 40: Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
I discourage promiscuity. I put much of the blame on the media (bratz dolls, Disney/miley cyrus, birth control ads aimed at 14 year-olds that resemble coke/pepsi campaigns, etc...).
We also have the problem that obesity/ contaminants in our water supply are causing girls to hit puberty at a much younger age (some at 7).




Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

FWIW, your Socialist/Communist tactics........not working.

HAHA, so let's summarize A) you don't like being ridiculed B) you ridicule me by labeling me a commie.
Hypocrite much? BTW, you wouldn't be infuriated if you actually understood what I'm saying.
 
I'm starting a drinking game, every time someone applies the word socialist or communist to something completely unrelated I will take a shot.
 
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