- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
I support abortion till the 270th trimester or so, more if they're cranky.
Abortion
- Thread starter mcantar18c
- Start date
- Location
- Wasatch Range
Um, you live in a Socialist democracy....the US is a Republic.
FWIW, you should have started this thread out with a poll to prove the hypocrisy…… my money is on the majority who are Pro-Choice to murder unborn children are also Anti-Death Penalty.
Total number of death penalty executions since 1976 - 1221
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/
Total number of wrongfully convicted and sentenced to death who have been released since 1973- 130
http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-pen...eath-penalty-and-innocence/page.do?id=1101086
Total number of abortions performed in the USA since 1973- 52,000,000+
www.nrlc.org/factsheets/fs03_abortionintheus.pdf
How's that for perspective?
Last edited:
asp
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westport, MA
When do shmortions ever end well?
Does that mean you get to pick your freedoms cafeteria-style? i.e.. check the box for gun rights, but ignore the one for woman's rights? See, last time I checked women weren't slaves... you can't tell them what to do.. heck... you can't even get them to take out the garbage or wash the dishes.
Nope... I'm not opposed to the death penalty.
You can cook-em, fry-em, zap-em, or feed them to the lions for all I care. If someone's guilty of something horrendous (their choice) than it makes sense that something horrendous be inflicted upon them (our choice).
For example, everytime you put words in my mouth, I'll shove my foot up your ass.
52million abortions is bad no doubt, but it would be equally bad to have 52million deadbeat/abusive mothers (that's how eminem got started).
Of coarse, you could remedy that problem one of three ways:
01) educate kids about the pitfalls of sex/pregnancy at a young age... hoping that-that education stays with them throughout their adult lives, but that would probably affect right-wing's delicate sensibilities. 02) force the media to stop whoring 'slut-chique' to young kids, but that would affect the free market system 03) Set in place a way of removing the fetus from the mother's wound... absolving her of the pregnancy, growing it to maturity, and afford its upbringing through taxes, but that sounds like socialism... or possibly the first 15 minutes of the matrix.. I can't decide which.
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
The problem appears when people disagree about when life starts really.
Personally I draw the line at when the baby could be delivered and live (albeit in a hospital) without severe problems later in life. After that point it becomes infanticide in my mind.
But really, most of the debate is about the shitty mothers who decide after being irresponsible that they don't really want to deal with the resulting baby and responsibilities.
I'd say something about the shitty fathers who decide after being irresponsible... but as the law currently stands, they have no say in the matter, even when they are the ones that will end up paying in many cases.
Personally I draw the line at when the baby could be delivered and live (albeit in a hospital) without severe problems later in life. After that point it becomes infanticide in my mind.
But really, most of the debate is about the shitty mothers who decide after being irresponsible that they don't really want to deal with the resulting baby and responsibilities.
I'd say something about the shitty fathers who decide after being irresponsible... but as the law currently stands, they have no say in the matter, even when they are the ones that will end up paying in many cases.
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
I'm all for educating kids as to the various options. I would emphasize abstinence as the only means of being sure there is no risk of pregnancy or STD. Plus, sex changes the dynamic of a relationship, can allow a bad one to continue longer than necessary, etc. But also teach them about contraceptives and the proper usage and inherent risks. Most importantly educate them as to the responsibilities associated with sex and pregnancy. Make sure they understand that babies aren't cute. Babies are a huge responsibility that only affords you 3 hrs of sleep a night, if you're lucky, for the first 6 months. You can't go out and party anymore, no more extra spending money, college becomes a major difficulty, having a job requires a babysitter or day care and that cost adds up fast.
Bingo, science is effectively useless at figuring out when life starts.
For all those who say they "would rather see a 1000 guilty men go free than execute 1 innocent", apply that to abortion. Are you absolutely positive that fetus isn't a life? Do you have the same proof and evidence to back it up as would be demanded in a court of law pertaining to a case of capital punishment? That's essentially what we're looking at. If it's nothing but a clump of cells, a tumor if you will, then there'd be no problem removing it, right? But if that clump of cells is a human being, then abortion is murder and it stops being a matter of woman's rights and starts being a matter of the law. Generally speaking a baby at 20 weeks has a chance at survival outside of the womb. 25 weeks, it's almost a guarantee.
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
As far as having to raise the child, there are so many couples out there who want a baby and are fully capable of caring for one, but are incapable of conceiving. A lot of abortions could be avoided if people were to keep the adoption route open. Carry the baby full term, and put him up for adoption. Babies tend not to sit in orphanages for long.
To the idea of forcing abortions underground and being more dangerous for the mother, so? She made the decision to have sex and got pregnant. That's one of the risks of sex, ya get pregnant. Abortions of convenience get no sympathy from me. In the case of rape or incest, that's a gray area for me. The baby didn't do anything to deserve death, and again, adoption is a very viable option. But if it's of medical necessity, by all means, have a nice clean hospital and professional doctors.
We lost a child in 2007. She had to come out at 21 weeks because the placenta had gone necrotic and they were picking up a lot of distress signals. We weighed the options because they were honest with us that she was at maybe a 25% survival rate and if we waited too long she might die in the womb and start dragging my wife down with her. We went for the emergency c-section as it offered the best odds. She lived for 2 days, but was a perfectly shaped little one pound human being. I hate to think of the number of women getting abortions at that late in the game. If they could just see their baby, they'd know that killing him/her is not the answer.
To the idea of forcing abortions underground and being more dangerous for the mother, so? She made the decision to have sex and got pregnant. That's one of the risks of sex, ya get pregnant. Abortions of convenience get no sympathy from me. In the case of rape or incest, that's a gray area for me. The baby didn't do anything to deserve death, and again, adoption is a very viable option. But if it's of medical necessity, by all means, have a nice clean hospital and professional doctors.
We lost a child in 2007. She had to come out at 21 weeks because the placenta had gone necrotic and they were picking up a lot of distress signals. We weighed the options because they were honest with us that she was at maybe a 25% survival rate and if we waited too long she might die in the womb and start dragging my wife down with her. We went for the emergency c-section as it offered the best odds. She lived for 2 days, but was a perfectly shaped little one pound human being. I hate to think of the number of women getting abortions at that late in the game. If they could just see their baby, they'd know that killing him/her is not the answer.
- Location
- Wasatch Range
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
Agreed 100%. Like I said, once capable of living outside, I don't think abortion should be done unless it's to save the mother's life, etc. Before that - I class it kinda the same as having one of those freaky twin-sibling tumors or whatever removed.
I obviously have a completely different psychological makeup seeing as I'm a dude, but I don't think I'd want to carry a child that was the result of some asshole raping me. Of course, we have the morning after pill now...
my condolences
superdave
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- NW Tennessee
This is what is the single most asinine flaws of the entire "pro choice" movement. They completely leave the adoption choice out. They push abortion and nothing else. I can sympathize with a woman who has been raped and gotten pregnant as a result, but as has been mentioned, it isn't the child's fault and there are literally thousands of couples who would eagerly adopt the baby. Don't punish the child for the sins of the father.
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
Nor the mother for the sins of the father. That's my argument in that case.
Coastie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Upper Peninsula, Michigan
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Why, did you?
(Not being sarcastic - I'm genuinely curious!)
"Sins of the father" - I find that an interesting line to use. It's probably omitted by the "Pro-Choice" faction simply because it's Biblical, and most of the "Pro-Lifers" are Biblical/religious conservative.
Doesn't the full quote go something like, "The sins of the father shall not be visited upon the child"?
Anyhow, given what seems to be your bent on the subject, Coastie, would you approve more of a set of adoptive parents being found prior to actual delivery? Although, this starts to wander into "surrogate parentage" - which is fraught with its own assorted dilemmae...
Coastie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Upper Peninsula, Michigan
No, my best friend and now brother did. My parents adopted him when we were around 9, after I came home week after week telling them of what was happening to him in the non state run but state funded children home he was living in.
If I had not shown our parents what was going on I am sure he would have grown up to be a dysfunctional member of society. Or dead.
Yes that would be a better scenario, but doesn't happen very often.
Last edited:
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
Hence why it's a gray area for me. I don't think abortion is right, but...Agreed 100%. Like I said, once capable of living outside, I don't think abortion should be done unless it's to save the mother's life, etc. Before that - I class it kinda the same as having one of those freaky twin-sibling tumors or whatever removed.
I obviously have a completely different psychological makeup seeing as I'm a dude, but I don't think I'd want to carry a child that was the result of some asshole raping me. Of course, we have the morning after pill now...
my condolences
How many infants do you think actually spend any time in the orphanage? Most newborns that are put up for adoption get picked up before they're even born. Besides, I'd put money on it that an orphanage is better than the bottom of a bio-waste container.
The idea of surrogacy really comes into play only if the girl had discussed it with the adoptive parents prior to getting pregnant.
Coastie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Upper Peninsula, Michigan
See I don't care about a ball of cells or half grown fetus laying in a dumpster. I don't even consider that a person, just because it's human doesn't make it a person.
You seem so concerned about the babies life what kind of a life would it be to grow up without a family? What kind of a chance does a kid really have like that, not all are as lucky as my brother.
Show me your numbers, what to you is "most". How many homes have you ever stepped foot in? How many kids have to talked to that grew up in child services and didn't get picked up?
Why would you really rather a 16 year old girl and boy who made a big mistake to pay for it for the rest of their lives instead of ending the mistake and going on to be successful productive members of society?
mcantar18c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fayettnam
^this.
- Location
- Wasatch Range
You ignorance is appalling...... I have 3 nephews who were adopted at birth and are living happy, healthy and productive lives.
My wife has 3 high school girlfriends who made the "big mistake" as you refer to, all 3 carried their children full-term and placed them with adoptive families. 2 of them currently have a relationship with their bio-children, who are now teenagers.
100% of aborted babies will never have a chance.
Know why they call it "abortion"?
Because murdering babies by sucking them out of the womb, one piece at a time, isn't Politically Correct.
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/ab-procedures.htm
1st Term Abortion procedure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSCkyW2dke8&feature=related
2nd Term Abortion procedure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raQy3LPrM9M&feature=related
Partial Birth Abortion procedure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g46hlT_2804&feature=fvw
urban-yan said:
Not at all... especially when you consider the psychological impact deadbeat/abusive parents have on their kids, and the burden many of those parents put on the system by taking mother's allowance and/or welfare.XJEEPER said:
.XJEEPER said:
So's yours.
Allot of the guys here keep trying to ground this debate in reality.
You, on the other hand, keep running for the books. Yes, the abortion procedure's appalling as are the stats, but unless you have a real-world solution that: a) doesn't rob women of their rights b) protects the fetus than your comments are theoretical at best, preachy at worst. It's utterly ignorant to think the world's going to turn into one full of sunshine lollipops and rainbows simply because you demand it.
Oh, if you're still keen arguing with me than I suggest you look into the shitshow that happened in Romania when it's communist government outlawed abortions.
