44/9 strength vs. tire size

[CAJJ93XJ]

What about a 9" front with a HP 3rd member and run the same in the back. In theory, would only need to have 1 spare for either. Or maybe 2 but much simpler to swap than in a standard axle?

that would be awesome. great strength, lightweight and clearance. just 9's front and rear would be cool because yes the entire 3rd members are interchangeable. steering 9" is still an option I'm tossing around. I was looking into tru hi9's and holy shiiiiit$$$$$$

 

[Jeep450r]

Yeah I forgot to mention the brakes. That alone sells me.

Not to hijack, but how do the 44 shafts compare to the 30 shafts? I know they use the same ujoints, but how different is the shaft diameter?

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Dont put the 60 on a pedestal.

True hi9 thirds (not the currie Hp8.8 like i have in the rear... ) would cost more than anything we have discussed thus far.

d30 inner shafts are 1.16 and d44 inners are 1.31. I am pretty sure d30 ABS shafts are massive compared to most d30 shaft though.

as for brakes, my WJ stuff works really good with the 36s. I bet you could get a Wj booster/master/knuckles/calipers/brakcets, etc on a good day at PNP , maybe on a 1/3 or 1/2 off week, and be into the WJ swap for next to nothing.

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

Yeah I forgot to mention the brakes. That alone sells me.

Not to hijack, but how do the 44 shafts compare to the 30 shafts? I know they use the same ujoints, but how different is the shaft diameter?

by all means go right ahead. this thread isn't going anywhere for me

Dont put the 60 on a pedestal.

True hi9 thirds (not the currie Hp8.8 like i have in the rear... ) would cost more than anything we have discussed thus far.

d30 inner shafts are 1.16 and d44 inners are 1.31. I am pretty sure d30 ABS shafts are massive compared to most d30 shaft though.

as for brakes, my WJ stuff works really good with the 36s. I bet you could get a Wj booster/master/knuckles/calipers/brakcets, etc on a good day at PNP , maybe on a 1/3 or 1/2 off week, and be into the WJ swap for next to nothing.

yeah no kidding. I added it up and even the cost for just tru hi9 rear is way out of my comfort zone. yeah all that works and I could do that to my d30. but in the end I'll wish it was wider. I know there are plenty of budget related options to get more strength or improve my current setup. I'm just interested in d44 rp strengthening options, and some info about load bolts, cry treatment, ring deflection etc. It's probably best to call Jantz

 

[Rob D]

There are all sorts of stuff you could look into with the 44. I talked to Carl about running the 50's gears in mine when I built it but was put off a bit by all the grinding of the case required to install them. For anyone else that may not be an issue at all tho.

Also, you didn't mention if you were going to run full width or narrow them (or maybe you did and I missed it) If you were going to narrow it you could always throw d50 inner c's on the ends and could then run the bigger joints (d60 size joints). But that may get too pricey if you have to get custom axles cut for it. In theory you could do that and run a 35 spline ARB with d50 gears on it and d60 u-joints and even finish it off with d60 35 spline outers and still have the weight/ground clearance of a 44 and almost the strength of a 60.

Either way, do call before you get any parts for the j54 as you'll need different carriers depending on whether you run the j54 or standard d44 gears. (with the d50 5.38's, for example, you'd run a case designed for ,say, 3.55 gears in a d44. And of course a case designed for the lower gears if you stay with the d44 gears). Good luck to ya either way you decide to go.

 

[jeepme]

I am another D44 front guy who is plenty happy with my decision. I am running chromoly shafts and u joints with stock 5:13 gears on 37's for 3 years now with no problems what so ever (crap now something will happen). I am not a gas pedal junky when it comes to wheeling style and am not shamed to take an easier line or actually use my winch. If I was planning on bigger tires I would have definitely went right to the 60 but I really dont see a need for a bigger than 37" tire for the trails we have here. Strength in the axle is a lot about your wheeling style and trails you want to run.

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

There are all sorts of stuff you could look into with the 44. I talked to Carl about running the 50's gears in mine when I built it but was put off a bit by all the grinding of the case required to install them. For anyone else that may not be an issue at all tho.

Also, you didn't mention if you were going to run full width or narrow them (or maybe you did and I missed it) If you were going to narrow it you could always throw d50 inner c's on the ends and could then run the bigger joints (d60 size joints). But that may get too pricey if you have to get custom axles cut for it. In theory you could do that and run a 35 spline ARB with d50 gears on it and d60 u-joints and even finish it off with d60 35 spline outers and still have the weight/ground clearance of a 44 and almost the strength of a 60.

Either way, do call before you get any parts for the j54 as you'll need different carriers depending on whether you run the j54 or standard d44 gears. (with the d50 5.38's, for example, you'd run a case designed for ,say, 3.55 gears in a d44. And of course a case designed for the lower gears if you stay with the d44 gears). Good luck to ya either way you decide to go.

I would be keeping them at 65" wide. grinding isn't an issue worst case I'll just go to WFO and see if they can figure it out for me. I'd love a 35 spline 44 but it's expensive and if I'm going to that great length I should really just be building a 60

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

I am another D44 front guy who is plenty happy with my decision. I am running chromoly shafts and u joints with stock 5:13 gears on 37's for 3 years now with no problems what so ever (crap now something will happen). I am not a gas pedal junky when it comes to wheeling style and am not shamed to take an easier line or actually use my winch. If I was planning on bigger tires I would have definitely went right to the 60 but I really dont see a need for a bigger than 37" tire for the trails we have here. Strength in the axle is a lot about your wheeling style and trails you want to run.

sweet! see I knew there were some happy d44 guys out there. I haven't been on any of the big trails out here, but from the looks of it I'd say you're right. I don't want obstacles to be to easy if that makes sense. and I'm no throttle jockey either (but that is subject to change as frustration increases). if I was building tons I really think I'd want a buggy of some sort not a uniframed cherokee

so in retrospect how would you do your 44/9 differently?

 

[Mike1331]

d60>d44!!!1:gee:

 

[Vanimal]

for the record, im not trying to pick on you or your ideas. i'm just a little bitter about the dana 44 after all the work i put into it to find out it breaks just as often as my dana 30 did lol
sorry if it comes off as i'm being an elitist, i'm just dealing with fresh wounds on this issue from my own "learning curve" so i may come off a bit passionate about the topic.

 

[zachandandy]

I am happy enough with my 44, but I wouldn't do it again. Went to 35's shortly after I bought the jeep, with an lock right in the rear and a spartan in the front. Broke 3 front shafts before I went to chromos. Went against the advice of many hear and went to 4.88's, blew up the ring and pinion on the second trip. Went to an hp44 full width and broke an axle shaft on the first trip. With the $700 Yukon shafts in it now, it seems to hold up well, but a stock 60 would still be stronger IMHO. I'd like to go to 37-40" tires in the future, but then I'll be right back to breaking parts. Between the 2 front axles I've put money into, I've paid for a well built 60, yet don't have the strength of a stock 60. It's your money do what you want, but I wouldn't put $ into anything less than a 60 if I had to do it again.

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

it's all good Vanimal I appreciate the input. but it does sound like both your issues could be solved by RCV's

and here's my thought process behind it
CTM's (sold individually?) $235 each http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-135214-dana-44-ctms.html
nitro chromoly axles $580 http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-159925-nitro-dana-44-chromoly-axle-shafts.html
snap rings $10
total cost: $1,060

RCV's total cost: $1,385 with no questions asked warranty and zero binding. only drawback is I'll start to worry where I have moved my weak point

sure you can buy cheaper ujoints or shafts but for the extra couple hundred and peace of mind why not just get the RCV's

 

[jeepme]

Dont forget to include the 30 spline warn hubs and 300m inserts with the RCV's if you plan on going that route. Also ford knuckles are MUCH easier to install the RCV's in than the chevy knuckles. The only thing i would change on my 44 would be to go with crane or dedenbear (sp?) flat top ford knuckles instead of the chevy's i currently have.

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

yeah the warn hubs were already in the plans but I haven't looked at the 300m cost yet. I was just going to flat top and hi steer arm the pass side stock knuckle. but I think there was an issue with a year of ford knuckles where theres not enough room to flat top it?

 

[Vanimal]

it's all good Vanimal I appreciate the input. but it does sound like both your issues could be solved by RCV's

and here's my thought process behind it
CTM's (sold individually?) $235 each http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-135214-dana-44-ctms.html
nitro chromoly axles $580 http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-159925-nitro-dana-44-chromoly-axle-shafts.html
snap rings $10
total cost: $1,060

RCV's total cost: $1,385 with no questions asked warranty and zero binding. only drawback is I'll start to worry where I have moved my weak point

sure you can buy cheaper ujoints or shafts but for the extra couple hundred and peace of mind why not just get the RCV's

the RCV's or ctm's with chromoly shafts cost more than i have into my entire dana 60 yet will still be weaker, so it would not make sense. especially since i have killed several ring and pinions.

i have a little less than 1300 into my dana 60, including complete late model dodge axle, new rotors, pads, unit bearings, ball joints, spicer 805x ujoints chromoly 35 spline inners, lockright, 5.38 thick gearset, seals, master install kit, and brackets. i narrowed it a little, and rotated the knuckles.

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

not sure how you set it up for that cheap but damn nice that's a steal of a setup
you said you blew up a couple ring and pinions? on the D44? is that just a wheeling style or what. if my tires don't hook up and walk I usually back off and pick a different line. or bump it carefully

 

[Vanimal]

not sure how you set it up for that cheap but damn nice that's a steal of a setup
you said you blew up a couple ring and pinions? how did that happen

dana 60 stuff isnt that expensive. the lockright was on sale recently, and i got the complete axle for $100. those 2 things helped a lot.
autopartswarehouse.com was dirt cheap for unit bearings, brakes, ball joints, etc.
national drivetrain and rwkhaussupply for the gears, shafts, and whatnot.

blew them up by not taking no for an answer lol

 

[blondejoncherokee]

dana 60 stuff isnt that expensive. the lockright was on sale recently, and i got the complete axle for $100. those 2 things helped a lot.
autopartswarehouse.com was dirt cheap for unit bearings, brakes, ball joints, etc.
national drivetrain and rwkhaussupply for the gears, shafts, and whatnot.

blew them up by not taking no for an answer lol

was it a CAD 60? if so, what shaft did you use on the passenger side to delete it ?

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

blew them up by not taking no for an answer lol

lol I like your style. I'll have to check out autopartswharehouse. already familiar with and happy customer of rwkhaus.

 

[Vanimal]

was it a CAD 60? if so, what shaft did you use on the passenger side to delete it ?

yes. i deleted the cast cad section by removing the casted section, sleeving it internally (the press fit sleeve was about the same size as a d30 tube and rosette welded in) and butting the 2 ends of tubes together. this shortened it about 3" and gave me a good wheelbase since the axle is stupid long to begin with. i used a 35 spline shaft, forgot what it came from, but i just looked for one in the ten factory catalog that was about 3" shorter than the dodge shaft (intermediate and inner shaft since it is 2 pieces for the disconnect).
It was pretty easy to do and you cant tell at all by looking at it.
FWIW, the bare housing isnt much heavier than the dana 44 housing. i was able to carry it out of my garage, all through the house, and out to the driveway by myself. I did the same thing with my d44. the thing that makes the d60 heavier is the bigger brakes, massive shafts and joints, big ring gear, big bearings, etc. if you're going 35 spline with the jana kit, i dont think you'll be saving a ton of weight. and another thing to consider is the smaller bearings they're using to fit the bigger carrier and pinion in there with the jana kit. how much weaker are those bearings than the larger stock bearings?

sorry for going a little off topic, i wont post anymore about this unless the OP asks.