4.6L Stroker, Help me build it please!

[XJoshua]

Since strokers seem to be the in thing to do, and people have been asking questions I think its time for a update, and for me to ask a few more questions.

So from where we left off I still had the cam, lifters, head assembled, and freeze plugs installed. I will admit its taken me a long time to get things moving due to it being freezing cold oldside and been working alot more at work then I used to.
Where am I now? I have every thing removed! Nothing but metal exists, except the front seal on the timming chain cover, but Im going to torch it out since tools are moving it. Im acid dipping all my parts with this mirical purple stuff which gets thing pretty clean and degreased. Still have several bags of stuff to clean, and tuesday Ill be calling around for quotes on machine work.

Picture Time:

Now as for some questions for the experienced stroker builders. What is the best chemical to remove oil stains from a asphault garage, and does this sound like everything I need done and did I miss anything? Also the port and polish Ill be doing myself...
Valve Cover-
Acid Dip

Head-
Hot Tank
Check Deck

Block-
Hot Tank
Shave Deck(9.433 - 0.020")
Bore(3.905 - 0.030") & Hone
Install Freeze Plugs
Install Cam Bearings

Rods & Pistons-
Balance Rods
Weight Match Rods
Increase Piston Dish Volume(13cc TO 22cc)
Weight Match Pistons
Press Pistons To Rods

Crankshaft-
Check Clearance
Balance

Oil Pan-
Acid Dip

EDIT: On the 4.0Performance site it mentions he reused his head bolts. Im pretty sure reusing head bolts is like reusing a condom, its a No No! Am I right, or do we 4.0L people have strong head bolts?

 

[Dr. Dyno]

EDIT: On the 4.0Performance site it mentions he reused his head bolts. Im pretty sure reusing head bolts is like reusing a condom, its a No No! Am I right, or do we 4.0L people have strong head bolts?

The head bolts are torque-to-yield so they stretch when you torque them down. Therefore they can be reused only once. If the head has to come off for a second time, you need new head bolts.

 

[jeepinwi]

I believe the 4.0 has some good head bolts. I pulled the head off my 93 YJ severa times and reused the head bolts everytime. They were probably retorqued 4-5 times. I don't see any problem with reusing the original head bolts. I did on my stroker, and it has been rock solid for almost 2k miles.

 

[jeepinwi]

Also, have you thought about getting a valve job done on your ported head? Your new piston rings deserve to have some tight sealing valves. Also, get some new valve stem seals.

I got a valve job, head flatness checked and milled to flatness, head steam cleaned, new valve seals, and valvetrain reassembled for about $150. Well worth it in my mind.

 

[XJoshua]

Im poundering wether to get oversized valves, or just getting new stainless steel valves. I have thought about getting the valves lapped, but thats something I can do. New valve stem seals are on the list, I just pulled the old ones today.

I thought about getting a 3angle valve job, but someone told me expect to pay up to $800, which I dont know if its true yet, because I havent gotten quotes yet.

 

[jeepinwi]

I don't see any way possible to spend $800 on a valve job unless it is done with gold plated machinery. The things I had done for $150 included a 3 angle valve job. Shop around. I took my head to an auto parts store that has a machine shop in house. They did a very fine job. I had my engine block work done at a different machine shop and they also did a very fine job. I basically called around and picked the shops with the cheapest prices.

 

[XJoshua]

Thanks alot JeepinWI, bould you post everything you had done to the head and the overall price. I understand prices will differ on region, but its always nice to have some ideas.

I was never planning on making a premo stroker, but it seems it might turn out that way for a couple hundred more.

 

[jeepinwi]

For $150, I got the 3 angle valve job, head flatness checked and milled to flatness, head hot tanked, new valve seals, and everything reassembled(valves, springs, seals).

For the block, I had the following done at the machine shop:
-hone big and small ends of rods: $75(I did not expect to have this done, but it was suggested)
-jet hot cleaning: $40
-bore cylinders: $99
-install cam bearings: $28
-install freeze plugs: $10
-environmental waste charge: $13.25(I'm not sure what waste there really was...oh well)

I ported the cylinder myself, so that was probably about $15 in grinding stones/sanding drums.

I also planned on making a low budget stroker, but I opted to spend a little more money to get an engine with all new parts. I've learned from experience that it's worth it to spend a few extra bucks the first time around so things tend to last longer, run better.

 

[XJoshua]

Called on quotes today, only got around to a few shops. One guy was extremely nice and understood where I was comming from and had the best price. Whereas the other guy sounds like "we need to buy all this extra stuff to ensure the best performance and balance of your engine, so we need a few hundred more" I understand but wasnt a real person I would be willing to send my engine to. So right now the nice guy quotes at about $740-800, and the professional know it all wants $900-1000. Then I called NAPA and they only do headwork which would run me $170 for everything minus port and polish.

 

[Frank Z]

I'm waiting on Robbie to finish my motor an then I'll be able to give a good breakdown of the costs involved with my build. I spoke with him today and he was in the process of milling the dish on the new pistons. It's taken a bit longer than he or I expected but if you want it done right...well you know the rest.

Once you step into the shop and see the kind of work he does you'll understand why I chose his shop. The guy has skillz!!

 

[XJoshua]

Could you give me his number and all? I asked one shop because they seemed to know alot about stroker, but it wasnt him.

 

[Frank Z]

www.McCabeMotorSports.com

(719)591-8415

 

[XJoshua]

Seems most machine shops dont like the costomer buying the internal parts. Either because they really want to ensure quality, or want part of the cut. Im looking into parts, and am woundering if it would just be easier to purchase a Overhaul Kit from Jeep Connection, or buy everything individually from Summit and Hesco.

Also the came Im looking at running is the 260/272(204/216 @ 050in) and the machine shops say thats way to much cam, yet everyone and their mother with a stroker is running it and says it gives a stock feel and idle. Also one guy who says he's built several strokers and has had multiple problems with the Mopar Perfromance Valve Springs, yet again quite a few people are running it.

Im woundering what specific specs on valve springs, rockers, and cam can someone provide me with.

Any other helpful hints, the write ups on stroking a 4.0 all seem to not mean anything anymore after people keep telling me new stuff. Also being my first time I dont know what and how is correct or incorrect.

 

[Frank Z]

Here's what I've learned in the process of buying parts and having stuff machined.

#1) Just because someone puts some info on their own personal website about spec's...that don't make it Gospel!

Do lot's of research using a variety of sources, including manufacturers websites.

#2) Just because you see a website that lists a specific dish volume for a piston...that don't make it Gospel!

My machinest cc'd 3 different pistons that all listed the dish as 22cc. Not a single one was.

#3) Not all pistons are ideal for milling to increase the dish volume.

The total thickness of the top of the piston should be verified prior to milling. Too thin and you'll blow the top out of it.

#4) Anything with the name MOPAR on it is going to cost alot more than a part from the aftermarket.

Many of the "MOPAR" parts are actually built by the same companies that build and sell parts under a variety of names. RESEARCH AND SHOP AROUND!!

#5) If you want a quality motor thats reliable, start with quality parts and quality machining.

High expectations + low cost parts/workmenship = A pissed off stroker owner.

#6) Machine shops are in business to make money.

No two ways about it. Every shop that I called had the same policy. One price for work if you bought your parts from them, another (higher) price if you supplied the parts. Part of their profit comes from the parts they sell, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with making a profit. Why wold they be in business if they weren't making a profit. again, do your home work, compare price and benefit. A low price does not mean the best value. A high price does not guarranty quality.

In the end, it's the buyer's responsiblity to ensure the quality of the parts, and the quality of the shop chosen. It's YOUR money, you're responsible for spending it wisely.

Camshafts, yep they can be confusing. The Crane Cam you are refering to is the one I'm using. I'm sticking the stock rockers in for now and might swap them out at some point. I'm already over budget as it is.

I had my cylinder head machined to accept Chevy valve springs. The Crane springs were not acorn springs like the stock springs and the proper retainers and locks have been discontinued by Crane.

Geez I'm long winded.

 

[philip_g]

So what you're saying isn't I shouldn't take my used con rods and just slap 'em in without some machine work?
I was actually kinda hoping to....

 

[Frank Z]

Philip,
All I'm saying is that you're the guy laying the money on the counter. You have to decide what risks are woth taking, and which should be avoided.

Does it make sense (too you and you alone) to put parts inside your motor that may compromise the strength of the motor.

I'd have them resized and new ARP rod bolts installed.

 

[Clean Racing]

I don't see any way possible to spend $800 on a valve job unless it is done with gold plated machinery. The things I had done for $150 included a 3 angle valve job. Shop around. I took my head to an auto parts store that has a machine shop in house. They did a very fine job. I had my engine block work done at a different machine shop and they also did a very fine job. I basically called around and picked the shops with the cheapest prices.

Well I know the head for my stroker is going to run around 750 for everything but I know it will be DONE RIGHT... For your 150, they are not replacing the exhaust valve seats, or new guides - just drilling and installing guide liners..

For what I am having done is upgrading to the Chevy valves - stainless, get a bigger valve guide that way.. New exhaust seats - so I know my exhaust valves wont be leaking any air. Minimal surface on the deck of the head, and one small crack repair.. Along with a 5 angle valve job, new springs, retainers, locks, and seals... Its not about doing it for the least amount of money... Its called
doing it right the first time...

For what its worth just find someone that KNOWS what they are doing and pay the extra dough to get it right once... Now if I can just get a good crank that is not cracked Ill be in business....

 

[philip_g]

Philip,
All I'm saying is that you're the guy laying the money on the counter. You have to decide what risks are woth taking, and which should be avoided.

Does it make sense (too you and you alone) to put parts inside your motor that may compromise the strength of the motor.

I'd have them resized and new ARP rod bolts installed.

this budget build is quickly becomming a non budget build.

Well I need to get the pistons pressed on anyway so I'll get my machinist to do it anyway. He's had my block for a month now.

 

[Frank Z]

this budget build is quickly becomming a non budget build.

Buddy, I know the feeling!:laugh:

 

[philip_g]

Buddy, I know the feeling!:laugh:

the irritating this is I lose interest in shit so fast that I'll probably sell the jeep by june anyway.

I'm already mostly over the engine to the point I don't want to pull the old one and do the swap myself.