GM halts production on the Chevy Volt

[Beezil]

Just saw one of these parked on the street in downtown LA on my lunch break:

http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us

I don't know anything about the performance, but damn that is a nice looking ride.

wow....even the name is pretentious

 

[Beezil]

combustion technology continues to get better.

we're producing more power, while increasing MPG and reducing emissions....and we're doing this in the PRIVATE SECTOR.... at least most automakers are not tax-payer subsidized.

current electric technology is a huge scam and a fugn lie.

Battery production, materials, and lifespan were already mentioned...

I don't celebrate the failures of a new technology sturggling in its infancy...but it is particularly frustrating when such a thing is being forced into the marketplace gift-wrapped in lies and deceit, on MY dime. I have a major fugn problem with that.

 

[Darky]

If they're buying used Crown Vics, I doubt their buying fully loaded Priuses (Prii?). And the companies buying Priuses probably don't buy secondhand Crown Vics, their Crown Vics are likely bought new.

The used car shopper and the new car shopper are two completely different animals. It makes no sense to compare them.

 

[Darky]

combustion technology continues to get better.

we're producing more power, while increasing MPG and reducing emissions....and we're doing this in the PRIVATE SECTOR.... at least most automakers are not tax-payer subsidized.

current electric technology is a huge scam and a fugn lie.

Battery production, materials, and lifespan were already mentioned...

I don't celebrate the failures of a new technology sturggling in its infancy...but it is particularly frustrating when such a thing is being forced into the marketplace gift-wrapped in lies and deceit, on MY dime. I have a major fugn problem with that.

The only way we're switching to an entirely new fuel source is through big gov't subsidies to completely revamp our infrastructure and train the populace. As was mentioned with hydrogen, if you do it wrong, bad things happen. Then add on the fact that there are only a few hydrogen stations nationwide and it's not like they can just repurpose the existing gas pumps to pump hydrogen. I like gov't to stay out of my business too, but gov't is the only way to affect such a massive change.

 

[Beezil]

what's wrong with gasoline NOW?

change is good....

but NOT when it's FORCE FED.

and certainly not when the government is involved.

all of our best technology and innovation has come from the american spirit of INDIVIDUAL accomplishment within the private sector.

 

[tbburg]

If they're buying used Crown Vics, I doubt their buying fully loaded Priuses (Prii?). And the companies buying Priuses probably don't buy secondhand Crown Vics, their Crown Vics are likely bought new.

Discount cab here in Phoenix. They have a fleet of Crown Vics, all ex-police cruisers. They also run Priuses. And no, they're not "loaded".

 

[Darky]

what's wrong with gasoline NOW?

change is good....

but NOT when it's FORCE FED.

and certainly not when the government is involved.

all of our best technology and innovation has come from the american spirit of INDIVIDUAL accomplishment within the private sector.

What's wrong with gas now? Our dependence on oil makes things rather unstable here. What are gas prices lookin like out the in Chicago? We're at or above $4 here in CA, towards the coast, some places are seeing almost $5/gallon. The sooner we can get away from complete dependence on gas, the better. As is, it would seem the OPEC nations and Venezuela exert too much influence over our economy. I love gas engines and all, but there's got to be a better way.

Finding an alternative fuel isn't a simple matter of change, it's more akin to when electricity started reaching every home, or when running water was first piped into homes, etc. This requires a HUGE infrastructure change and private industry doesn't have the will or the ability to get it done on their own. So, it will take the gov't getting involved in some way, probably more heavily than you would like, in order to make the change.

 

[Beezil]

What's wrong with gas now? Our dependence on oil makes things rather unstable here. What are gas prices lookin like out the in Chicago? We're at or above $4 here in CA, towards the coast, some places are seeing almost $5/gallon. The sooner we can get away from complete dependence on gas, the better. As is, it would seem the OPEC nations and Venezuela exert too much influence over our economy. I love gas engines and all, but there's got to be a better way.

Finding an alternative fuel isn't a simple matter of change, it's more akin to when electricity started reaching every home, or when running water was first piped into homes, etc. This requires a HUGE infrastructure change and private industry doesn't have the will or the ability to get it done on their own. So, it will take the gov't getting involved in some way, probably more heavily than you would like, in order to make the change.

Our dependance on foreign oil is a problem....

So lets makes our OWN energy

We have a shitload of it

Liberal agenda stands in the way of that

 

[Darky]

This is true, but we'll run out some day. Not to mention that if we drill our own, it's going on the world market, unless the gov't steps in and nationalizes the oil. The gov't would be just as involved, just in an area that you would prefer. Work on alternative fuels and ways to augment our internal combustion engines now, so that what oil is available lasts longer and we got a leg up when we eventually do have to change to other sources.

 

[bjoehandley]

What's wrong with gas now? Our dependence on oil makes things rather unstable here. What are gas prices lookin like out the in Chicago? We're at or above $4 here in CA, towards the coast, some places are seeing almost $5/gallon. The sooner we can get away from complete dependence on gas, the better. As is, it would seem the OPEC nations and Venezuela exert too much influence over our economy. I love gas engines and all, but there's got to be a better way.

Finding an alternative fuel isn't a simple matter of change, it's more akin to when electricity started reaching every home, or when running water was first piped into homes, etc. This requires a HUGE infrastructure change and private industry doesn't have the will or the ability to get it done on their own. So, it will take the gov't getting involved in some way, probably more heavily than you would like, in order to make the change.

We're running $3.89-$3.99 in the western suburbs, it should be over $4 if you get in closer to the city. IIRC, I paid $3.99 Friday night, which added up to $41.00 for a half tank in my XJ. Got a customer at work who is waiting on his Volt and one of the reasons he want's it is to give big oil a stiff middle finger (honestly, I wouldn't mind one for that reason alone). I yalked to a Volt owner today who is still on the first fill up from when he bought itback in September!

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

They also run Priuses. And no, they're not "loaded".

What the hell is a "loaded" prius anyways?

On board fart snifter?

 

[slvmart]

What do most cabbies drive? Usually a Crown Vic or a minivan around here. A Crown Vic is no $20k car, neither is a minivan. They run similar or higher pricetags in comparison to a Prius. And if you follow the number of miles a cab can accrue in a busy market like San Fran or NYC, getting better than double the mileage will give a very fast ROI. 50 mpg, is indeed 50 mpg. If a person is looking at $30k vehicles, they're not likely to go and look at a 15 yr old VW TDI. My uncle spent somewhere right around 18-22 or so for his Prius, like I said, he bought it used. Driving Phoenix, Az to 29 Palms, CA on one tank, he averaged 50 mpg. That included navigating Phoenix traffic (which sucks), most likely getting caught in a traffic jam on the 10 through Phoenix, and then the highway driving itself.

As far as what numbers are claimed for a Prius, the last published numbers I saw were 54 city, 48 highway, +/- 1 or 2 mpg. A cab will see the same city mileage as any other driver, in a Prius at least. When not moving, the engine shuts down except to run the A/C or stereo if the batteries are dead. In my uncle's we got all the way to 40ish before the engine kicked in while being easy on the gas pedal.

EDIT: Looking up the actual numbers from the EPA (which are the numbers posted on the cars and advertised by the mfrs), you chose to quote the numbers from the Prius V, their new minivanish variant. The stardard Prius is still rated at 51/48, with the compact model at 53/46. Also, the high end MSRP on all three is still under 30k. Comparing them to the most common cab, the Crown Vic, city mileage is better than 3x what a Crown Vic gets while the Vic's MSRP starts where the Prius tops out. If you want to debate easily verified info, at least try harder to distort it...

This is a typically misleading argument by those attempting to justify their hybrids or EV's. Comparing a Crown Vic with a Prius. Compare a 2012 Ford Focus to a 2012 Prius, and not somebody's uncles numbers. From the manufacturers websites : Focus S is $16500 and gets 26/36 mpg the Prius 3 is $24000 and gets 51/48. So you would have to drive the Focus 58k miles to merely cover the cost of the Prius, at $4/gal. Now this isn't "fuzzy" math, this is based on the manufacturers numbers. Of course, if you decide to buy something smaller, like a Fiesta, then those numbers just get even better.

Typically, you seem to have double standard for picking and choosing, in order to distort your numbers.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

Focus S is $16500 and gets 26/36 mpg the Prius 3 is $24000 and gets 51/48. So you would have to drive the Focus 58k miles to merely cover the cost of the Prius, at $4/gal...

To clarify, that's 58k on the Focus, before the Prius leaves the driveway.

More realistically: If you're driving them both (go figure) you'll log 156,000 miles of combined city/hwy, before your fuel savings equal the $7500 difference in purchase price.

(31mpg @ $4per = 12.9c/mi for the focus, 49.5mpg = 8.1c/mi for the yota. 4.8c/mi savings, into $7,500.00, is 156k)

Robert

 

[Darky]

This is a typically misleading argument by those attempting to justify their hybrids or EV's. Comparing a Crown Vic with a Prius. Compare a 2012 Ford Focus to a 2012 Prius, and not somebody's uncles numbers. From the manufacturers websites : Focus S is $16500 and gets 26/36 mpg the Prius 3 is $24000 and gets 51/48. So you would have to drive the Focus 58k miles to merely cover the cost of the Prius, at $4/gal. Now this isn't "fuzzy" math, this is based on the manufacturers numbers. Of course, if you decide to buy something smaller, like a Fiesta, then those numbers just get even better.

Typically, you seem to have double standard for picking and choosing, in order to distort your numbers.

How is it misleading to compare a Crown Vic with a Prius when the discussion began based on cabs? I've never seen a Focus or Fiesta as a cab. And why was I using my uncle as an example? Because the topic before Prius cabs was in regards to how all Prius owners are stuck idiots who think they're saving the environment. My uncle doesn't care about the environment, or at least not enough to buy a Prius based on that. He bought it because for the cars he was looking at, it saved him the most money on gas.

Now, why did you choose the Prius you did to compare? The Prius c is cheaper than the one you chose and mpgs would balance out fairly evenly.

 

[XJEEPER]

On the subject of advancing technology....... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2481...y_with_a_500mile_range_for_electric_cars.html

 

[bjoehandley]

The customer at work that is waiting on his Volt mentioned these, sounded like these are pretty promising if they can pull it off. In the RC realm, the weight difference between a 5000 mAh (5 amp) 7.2v 6 cell) NiMH pack and a same amperage 7.4v 2s LiPo is astounding and then the discharge rate is considerably higher which means far better acceleration on top of the lower weight.

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

Battery tech, or energy storage technology in general, is what we're waiting on. Right now pound for pound, gasoline and diesel are far more work efficient than batteries.

 

[Darky]

Battery tech, or energy storage technology in general, is what we're waiting on. Right now pound for pound, gasoline and diesel are far more work efficient than batteries.

There's something we can definitely agree on. Plus, no electric can ever replicate the raucous that my 73 Ford with 390 produces when I stomp on the gas.

 

[slvmart]

Now, why did you choose the Prius you did to compare? The Prius c is cheaper than the one you chose and mpgs would balance out fairly evenly.

The Prius C is a concept vehicle, per Toyota website. Prices and vehicle have not been released. So why compare to something that doesn't yet exist ?

But thanks for making my point.

 

[zr2toxj]

Hmmmm, I thought this topic was about the Volt.