GM halts production on the Chevy Volt

[Darky]

Except he didn't say the car runs completely free, just that it raised his bill by $1.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

Implying that an electric car runs for free is ridiculous.

 

[zr2toxj]

I can verify it, but from what I remember, my Dad figures it is costing a over a buck a day. Now you can also program it to charge only in off peak hours, which would drop it down some, but for $30/month or so that's not bad. I'll check with him and let you know.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

I can verify it, but from what I remember, my Dad figures it is costing a over a buck a day. Now you can also program it to charge only in off peak hours, which would drop it down some, but for $30/month or so that's not bad. I'll check with him and let you know.

Now that's a much more reasonable number. Thanks!

And this is where it gets interesting: A buck a day, for a 9 mile commute, in a $28k car.

A Hyundai Accent will go 35 miles on a gallon of gas. 9 miles on a quart. At $4 a gallon, that's a buck a day.

For $14,500. Right about half.


High tech hybrids and electric vehicles just aren't economically viable.

You've got one, you're happy with it, more power to you!

But you'll have a hard time convincing me that it's really saving you any money...

Robert

 

[kastein]

Now that's a much more reasonable number. Thanks!

And this is where it gets interesting: A buck a day, for a 9 mile commute, in a $28k car.

A Hyundai Accent will go 35 miles on a gallon of gas. 9 miles on a quart. At $4 a gallon, that's a buck a day.

For $14,500. Right about half.


High tech hybrids and electric vehicles just aren't economically viable.

You've got one, you're happy with it, more power to you!

But you'll have a hard time convincing me that it's really saving you any money...

Robert

and (I honestly have no idea, this is not a rhetorical question) how many grants and subsidies does the Volt get to even have a price that low?

The Hyundai does its thing with none of them.

I like high tech gadgets, I really do. I am required to as an EE. But I'm not dropping 5 figures on one unless it has a hell of a ROI.

 

[Darky]

A Hyundai Accent is also a very different car. They're tiny, use crappier materials, and have fewer amenities available. A more accurate comparison would be something like a Camry, Malibu, Altima, or something along those lines as far as level of comfort and amenities go. Mind you, from a purely financial standpoint, those cars would still win out, but that doesn't make the Volt a bad car. Just for the time being, the technology and materials for the battery cost too much.

One thing that something like a Volt or Prius plug in, or even a Leaf does that no gas car can is lessen the demand for oil. Let the existing oil last longer while we come up with a viable replacement for the gas/diesel burning internal combustion engine.

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

You really think a Volt is comparable to a Camry, Malibu, or an Altima? Apparently you're completely forgoing any performance criterion, correct?

Also, can you back up what you said about a Hyundai Accent using "crappier materials"? But for 40k, it better damn well be a LOT higher quality and a LOT more amenities - even though I don't think it has either.

For 40k, I want more than "not a bad car." And obviously, Volt sales reflect that.

 

[zr2toxj]

Now that's a much more reasonable number. Thanks!

And this is where it gets interesting: A buck a day, for a 9 mile commute, in a $28k car.

A Hyundai Accent will go 35 miles on a gallon of gas. 9 miles on a quart. At $4 a gallon, that's a buck a day.

For $14,500. Right about half.


High tech hybrids and electric vehicles just aren't economically viable.

You've got one, you're happy with it, more power to you!

But you'll have a hard time convincing me that it's really saving you any money...

Robert

Well, if you're only driving a 9 mile commute, then you wouldn't have to charge it but every 4 days or so, so the numbers you use would have to be adjusted for that.

This is the way I see it and everyone's situation is different, but currently I am driving a vehicle that gets 26mpg consistently. I drive just over 100 miles per day RT. So that's 600 miles per week if I add in weekend travel, divided by 26 = 23 gallons/week. The current prices for gas in my area is $3.59 and climbing, but using that I spend $82/week in fuel.

If I were driving a Volt, 80 miles would be on electric and 20 miles/day would be on fuel. Figuring 35mpg,(which is low) = 3.50 gal/week or roughly $12/week in fuel.

So I could save at least $70/week times 52 weeks is at least $280-$300/month towards the purchase of the Volt. That makes it a little more reasonable, even subtracting $30/month for charging.

IF I was looking to purchase a new vehicle, (which I'm not nor do I intend to), I would consider one, especially if ,like my Dad, I was considering a new Buick in the 30-35K range that got 30mpg or so.

Even at the $20-25K range it starts making a little more sense. $300/month is a pretty good part of a new car payment.

I'll still remain very impressed with the Volt both in quality and performance. They are very quick off the line because the torque of an electric motor is instant. They handle much better than any Camry, etc I've driven. Add in the NAV system, and other features, it's a lot better car than my inlaws Camry.
And I'll admit I was very disappointed in the price when they first came out, thinking that's a great idea but $40K doesn't make financial sense. After seeing 167mpg over 10k miles, it got me thinking more about the cost offsets.

 

[Darky]

You really think a Volt is comparable to a Camry, Malibu, or an Altima? Apparently you're completely forgoing any performance criterion, correct?

Also, can you back up what you said about a Hyundai Accent using "crappier materials"? But for 40k, it better damn well be a LOT higher quality and a LOT more amenities - even though I don't think it has either.

For 40k, I want more than "not a bad car." And obviously, Volt sales reflect that.

I suppose if you intend to drag race your car, performance might come into a large role, but I'd imagine for the average person who wants a car that is inexpensive to operate, comfortable, etc, all out acceleration would be less of a concern, so long as the vehicle is capable of keeping up with traffic without laboring, which the Volt is. Seriously, go drive one. They're nice vehicles.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

A Hyundai Accent is also a very different car... A more accurate comparison would be something like a Camry, Malibu, Altima, .

They were discussing their Leaf, so I thought the Accent was a decent comparison. If you want to compare the $40k Volt to the $25k Malibu, I bet it'll come out about the same...

Well, if you're only driving a 9 mile commute, then you wouldn't have to charge it but every 4 days or so, so the numbers you use would have to be adjusted for that.

You said about a buck a day. So yeah, charge it once a week at $7 a charge. Whatever. $30/month.

I drive just over 100 miles per day, 600 miles per week, at 26mpg = 23 gallons/week. At $3.59 = $82/week in fuel.

In a Volt, 80 miles electric, 20 miles gas, roughly $12/week in fuel, saving $70/week, saving $280/month towards the Volt. That makes it a little more reasonable, even subtracting $30/month for charging.

IF you could charge it for 30/month. But you couldn't, unless you did it on someone else's dime. She was paying $30/month to charge a Leaf she drove 9 miles a day. If you drove a bigger, heavier car, nine times as far, it'll need (ballpark) ten times as much juice. Saving $280 in gas, but paying $300 more in electric, plus payments on a $40k car...

After seeing 167mpg over 10k miles, it got me thinking more about the cost offsets.

I guess I need to go back and reread, where did this number come from? If you're just taking the 10k he drove, dividing by 60 gallons of gas he used, and ignoring the cost of charging the battery, then that's not a true analysis.

Robert

 

[Darky]

They were discussing their Leaf, so I thought the Accent was a decent comparison. If you want to compare the $40k Volt to the $25k Malibu, I bet it'll come out about the same...

I thought you were comparing to a Volt, since the person you were responding to was talking about his dad's Volt. And you'll notice, I also said it would still come out on the side of the straight gas powered car from a purely financial standpoint.

Also, your comparison between Leaf and Volt errs in that you assume the motors and everything else are equal and it is only the size and weight that change.

 

[zr2toxj]

They were discussing their Leaf, so I thought the Accent was a decent comparison. If you want to compare the $40k Volt to the $25k Malibu, I bet it'll come out about the same...



You said about a buck a day. So yeah, charge it once a week at $7 a charge. Whatever. $30/month.



IF you could charge it for 30/month. But you couldn't, unless you did it on someone else's dime. She was paying $30/month to charge a Leaf she drove 9 miles a day. If you drove a bigger, heavier car, nine times as far, it'll need (ballpark) ten times as much juice. Saving $280 in gas, but paying $300 more in electric, plus payments on a $40k car...



I guess I need to go back and reread, where did this number come from? If you're just taking the 10k he drove, dividing by 60 gallons of gas he used, and ignoring the cost of charging the battery, then that's not a true analysis.

Robert

I am basing eveything on my father's real world experience with owning a Volt for 10K miles. The lifetime average MPG's he is getting is 167mpg. And he is paying ~$30-50/month to charge it. That's it, not anywhere near $300/month for his electric bill. I''ll try to verify it again, I can't remember what he said, it was awhile ago when I asked him, but I know it's in that range.

If you drove a Volt 9 miles, it would only be depleted a small amount, roughly a quarter of full charge, so you wouldn't have to charge it everyday. I'm surprised the Leaf is costing that much. I don't know anything about the Leaf, admittedly.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

Sorry, all my bad: I was confusing your dad's Volt with Boatwrench's sister's Leaf.


The Leaf owner claims to drive a nine mile round trip on about a buck a month. (No idea how you spot a buck a month on your utility bill, but okay...)

Your dad has driven 10k in his Volt, for about a buck a day.

I confused the two, my apologies...


That definitely makes the Volt look better. You said 3500 miles back in march, and 10k now. Is he really racking up 1300 miles a month at 78? Good for him!

And good for his balance sheet: 1300m/m = 43 m/day. If he's really seeing 167mpg (vs just the 'puter claiming it) that's only a quart of gas a day. A buck for gas and a buck for electric, and he's driving 43 miles for about $2. That's awesome.

A 30mpg Malibu would burn a gallon and a half, so $6 a day.

So if your numbers are right, the Volt is three TIMES as efficient. That's HUGE.





But at $4 saved each day, it'll still take 4,500 days, 12.3 years, just to break even on the purchase price, $40k vs $22k. Plus loan interest, and the battery (or two) you'll need by then.

Robert

 

[XJEEPER]

I like when people get all revved up hating on something pretty much unrelated. The Volt is selling well. That doesn't make it a bad car. It's actually a pretty decent car. The one I drove was comfortable, powerful enough to not be a dog, and for a lot of people would have the battery range to drive to work and back. That, and I find the concept that Obama is directly responsible for the Volt's existence to be highly suspect. A vehicle like that doesn't go from idea to reality in that short a period of time.

I'm all for hatin on Obama, but I prefer to have reasons that make sense.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Let's listen to Obama, taking credit for saving the auto industry. At the recent rally in Oakland, the President stated: “Three years later, the American auto industry has come roaring back.”

Now let's look at some facts:

"GM owes $27 billion on the nearly $50 billion it received from the auto bailout and Ally Bank, the company’s lending arm, owes $14.7 billion of the $17.2 billion taxpayer-funded bailout it received."

"The federal government has maintained a 32 percent ownership interest in GM, despite promises to sell off its shares after the November 2010 IPO. The administration has also maintained a controlling interest in Ally Financial, formerly known as GMAC.

The administration lost $2.9 billion on the Chrysler bailout, a black eye to Obama’s initial promise that all taxpayer dollars would be recovered. Selling shares in GM and Ally would lead to a multi-billion dollar loss for taxpayers and could damage the Obama campaign’s claim in a March campaign video that the ailing automaker had repaid its loans."

http://freebeacon.com/gm-still-42b-in-the-hole/


You state that the Chevy Volt is selling well, how are you framing that comparison?

This article sums up my beef with Obama's involvement with the auto industry.........http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2012/04/18/chevy-volt-the-money-pit/ .....and don't skip the Conclusion, it's spot-on.

 

[zr2toxj]

Sorry, all my bad: I was confusing your dad's Volt with Boatwrench's sister's Leaf.


The Leaf owner claims to drive a nine mile round trip on about a buck a month. (No idea how you spot a buck a month on your utility bill, but okay...)

Your dad has driven 10k in his Volt, for about a buck a day.

I confused the two, my apologies...


That definitely makes the Volt look better. You said 3500 miles back in march, and 10k now. Is he really racking up 1300 miles a month at 78? Good for him!

And good for his balance sheet: 1300m/m = 43 m/day. If he's really seeing 167mpg (vs just the 'puter claiming it) that's only a quart of gas a day. A buck for gas and a buck for electric, and he's driving 43 miles for about $2. That's awesome.

A 30mpg Malibu would burn a gallon and a half, so $6 a day.

So if your numbers are right, the Volt is three TIMES as efficient. That's HUGE.





But at $4 saved each day, it'll still take 4,500 days, 12.3 years, just to break even on the purchase price, $40k vs $22k. Plus loan interest, and the battery (or two) you'll need by then.

Robert

Yeah, they're on the go all the time. I keep telling them there's something about retirement that they don't understand. I hope I can be that active if/when I get to that age.
I just called to ask about the charging cost because it was bugging me. They said their electric bill has gone up $28-30/month and the average MPG is up to 172. The last time they bought 9 gallons of fuel was May 8th and they still have 228 miles to go on fuel alone, so I don't expect they will buy gas for another couple of months.

I did screw up on my figures, though. I didn't factor in that I'd have to charge twice/day so if I paid for charging at my employer's it would cost me $60/month, but still a substantial savings.

Yes the ROI is still out there, but there is a lot of misinformation out there. I have heard a lot of people that think it gets 40-50mpg tops like the Prius and think of it as a hybrid where it burns fuel all the time its in operation, which isn't the case.

 

[rightseatsis]

I wish I could afford one. My commute is longer than the battery range by about 20 miles round trip, but there are chargers at work and home. Mary (rightseatsis) commutes in a Nissan Leaf and my Dad commented that car increased his energy bill by less than $1 per month. $1 per month sure beats my $600 gasoline bill.

There are plenty of reasons not to like President Obama and candidate Mitt Romney. The Chevy Volt is not one of them.

Boatwrench told me about this discussion. Although it is very cheap to charge, it is a bit more the $1 a month. I have had my LEAF since May2011 and my electric bill is running about $20-25 a month extra for powering the car. That is versus about $300.00 a month in gas to run the XJ the same amount of miles. The difference is making more then half the car payment.


As for my reasons for buying an EV, I have to give my membership in for pushing me over the proverbial fence I was sitting on. I have always been curious about electric vehicles but saw them as experimental and such. And we all have heard the reasons of environmental concerns. But the reason that pushed me over to the EV side was the untimely death of one of our members...Seth Stanton...and all the other soldiers dieing for us to have gasoline. It may seem small but I vowed from then to do all I can to lessen my personal use of gasoline. I am not perfect I still enjoy using my XJ but I burn less gas then I did before. I really am rooting for Jeep to come out with the Plug-in/Hybrid Wrangler they were developing .

 

[XJEEPER]

The Chevy Volt just keeps getting better......if better, means costing taxpayers more money, not only in taxpayer-funded bailouts and marketing, but now We the People are on the hook for another $4.4million dollars, to educate our nations firefighters on how to rescue someone from a Volt crash without being electrocuted.

Shocking, that these aren't selling......

http://townhall.com/columnists/step...lps_firefighters_combat_volt_fires/page/full/

According to industry expert Gary Howell of Howell Automotive, also a delegate to the West Virginia State Legislature, offers a solution. “The government needs to stop trying to dictate what people should drive and let people purchase what they want. If we were to open up domestic energy production we would not be talking about electric cars at all.”

 

[XJEEPER]

On a related note...............

A Fisker Karma driver from Woodside, California parked his hybrid at the grocery store… and after grabbing the items he needed, returned to the parking lot to find that his vehicle was on fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWTgnzZbYtU&feature=player_embedded

This fire is the second occurrence this year. Back in May 2012, a Karma plug-in was held responsible for a house fire in Houston, Texas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2OQZcYxNas&feature=player_embedded

And for only $104,000...... you get random spontaneous combustion as one of the vehicle features.


More on the Fiskar funding and the governments attempts to shove electric cars up American's tailpipes........ http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/14/why-is-the-government-subsidiz

 

[bjoehandley]

So he saved some money by having his $100k Karmaburn up vs a non hybrid $250k Lambo or Ferrari?

BTW, got anything from a non-biased news source?

 

[Boatwrench]

The transit system I work for has eighty-six coaches Orion Hybrids with Li-ion batteries. These coaches are six years old and (probably jinxing the whole fleet writing this) there have not been any fires those 86 coaches. The four hundred diesel powered fleet has had four fires in the same time span.