ZJ Tranny help

[DrMoab]

My 97 ZJ limited is having trouble shifting. About half the time under light throttle it wont shift from first to second gear unless I get completly off the throttle.
Do they controll shift points through the TPS like an XJ does? Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks

 

[1989laredoxj]

I have similar problems with my 95zj laredo, but it also wont shit from second to third without letting off the gas at 40mph. but it all goes away once its warmed up.

 

[DrMoab]

It doesn't matter if mine is warm or not. Seems to do it cold and hot.

 

[1989laredoxj]

have you tried a transmission flush?

 

[explorer]

Two things. 1. 96-up ZJ's w/ the Chrylser trans use an electronic governor that uses a transducer to read line pressure and a duty-cycle solenoid to modulate the pressure. People tend to replace them as a pair, but either can be bad, and they are fairly easy to replace if you feel comfortable pulling the pan and part of the valve body. 2. If the piston seals on the clutch are getting hard they often make the shift flare, or seem like its going to nuetral, in between shifts. Usually you can coax them by bringing the revs up and then backing off the throttle.
If you have access to a scan tool that can read trans gov. pressure, it should roughly equal mph speed when in forward. I can't remember if it may also boost pressure in the low or reverse ranges. Also you could check the TPS as it does have an effect on shifting but not so directly as in the AW4. It cross references other values that the standalone AW4 does not take into account.

 

[1989laredoxj]

sorry to jack your thread but what do you think about a 95 transmission having similar problems

 

[DrMoab]

Two things. 1. 96-up ZJ's w/ the Chrylser trans use an electronic governor that uses a transducer to read line pressure and a duty-cycle solenoid to modulate the pressure. People tend to replace them as a pair, but either can be bad, and they are fairly easy to replace if you feel comfortable pulling the pan and part of the valve body. 2. If the piston seals on the clutch are getting hard they often make the shift flare, or seem like its going to nuetral, in between shifts. Usually you can coax them by bringing the revs up and then backing off the throttle.
If you have access to a scan tool that can read trans gov. pressure, it should roughly equal mph speed when in forward. I can't remember if it may also boost pressure in the low or reverse ranges. Also you could check the TPS as it does have an effect on shifting but not so directly as in the AW4. It cross references other values that the standalone AW4 does not take into account.

Thanks...Ill try this.

 

[scoobyxj]

Two things. 1. 96-up ZJ's w/ the Chrylser trans use an electronic governor that uses a transducer to read line pressure and a duty-cycle solenoid to modulate the pressure. People tend to replace them as a pair, but either can be bad, and they are fairly easy to replace if you feel comfortable pulling the pan and part of the valve body. 2. If the piston seals on the clutch are getting hard they often make the shift flare, or seem like its going to nuetral, in between shifts. Usually you can coax them by bringing the revs up and then backing off the throttle.
If you have access to a scan tool that can read trans gov. pressure, it should roughly equal mph speed when in forward. I can't remember if it may also boost pressure in the low or reverse ranges. Also you could check the TPS as it does have an effect on shifting but not so directly as in the AW4. It cross references other values that the standalone AW4 does not take into account.

ON the same subject, but slightly different problem. My old ladeys 98 5.2 has a few quarks that I'm playing on a pressure problem. When cold it holds first for quite a while before it will shift (you can hold 2/2.5k for about 40/50sec.). Once warmed it still will hold first a little to long but not as bad. If you accelerate a slightly harder than normal, or full thottle it shifts fine. All other gears shift seemingly fine. Once in over-drive it has a shudder to it only when lugging almost like it wants to unlock the converter. With normal acceleration the RPM's will fall to about 1,500 after th eover drive shift. The problem will then surface till you get up to speed or clime a hill. It seemes to go completly away once you get over 73 mph which has the RPM's around 2,200. I have shop willing to take a look at it for a fair price, but if a standered scan tool will show me what i need to see I may be able to check it out myself. Also do you know if 97 FSM info would be the same on my 98.

 

[explorer]

ON the same subject, but slightly different problem. My old ladeys 98 5.2 has a few quarks that I'm playing on a pressure problem. When cold it holds first for quite a while before it will shift (you can hold 2/2.5k for about 40/50sec.). Once warmed it still will hold first a little to long but not as bad. If you accelerate a slightly harder than normal, or full thottle it shifts fine. All other gears shift seemingly fine. Once in over-drive it has a shudder to it only when lugging almost like it wants to unlock the converter. With normal acceleration the RPM's will fall to about 1,500 after th eover drive shift. The problem will then surface till you get up to speed or clime a hill. It seemes to go completly away once you get over 73 mph which has the RPM's around 2,200. I have shop willing to take a look at it for a fair price, but if a standered scan tool will show me what i need to see I may be able to check it out myself. Also do you know if 97 FSM info would be the same on my 98.

As far as the shift points, I would check the TV cable first. Generally, you can pull the clip on the adjuster and just push the cable out and let it return, and lock the clip again. From that point it is kind of a preference thing. I like them set pretty tight, which will to some extent, make it do what your describing. Try loosening the cable one or two notches and try it that way.

Cold weather especially will make the shifts sluggish on its own. If the fluid level is even a little low, sometimes it will be drawing some air in as the fluid is slow to get back to the pan. This can affect shifting as well as clutch engagement.

The shudder your describing sounds more like a torque conv. slipping. Or OD clutch slipping. What ATF are you using. The ATF +3 or whatever supercedes that(+4) is the specified fluid. If your running anything else, you can get some weird shudder problems that you wouldn't otherwise get. I don't remember when they started, but alot of the trans have staged TCC engagement where the clutch is applied using a duty cycled solenoid that first applies partial pressure and later applies full pressure to the TCC. It makes the transition to TC lockup less noticeable. Thank those who want a buttery smooth shift.

Lastly, a 97 FSM should get you pretty close. Some wire colors or options change from year to year, but anything 96-98 should be similar. Even in th correct manual, sometimes info like wire colors is wrong. Or compression specs. I had to go rounds w/ a factory engineer once when the spec I read out of the manual was supposedly wrong. In the end they confirmed that it was right, but in the mean time it was real helpful of them to give me inaccurate info.

 

[scoobyxj]

As far as the shift points, I would check the TV cable first. Generally, you can pull the clip on the adjuster and just push the cable out and let it return, and lock the clip again. From that point it is kind of a preference thing. I like them set pretty tight, which will to some extent, make it do what your describing. Try loosening the cable one or two notches and try it that way.

Cold weather especially will make the shifts sluggish on its own. If the fluid level is even a little low, sometimes it will be drawing some air in as the fluid is slow to get back to the pan. This can affect shifting as well as clutch engagement.

The shudder your describing sounds more like a torque conv. slipping. Or OD clutch slipping. What ATF are you using. The ATF +3 or whatever supercedes that(+4) is the specified fluid. If your running anything else, you can get some weird shudder problems that you wouldn't otherwise get. I don't remember when they started, but alot of the trans have staged TCC engagement where the clutch is applied using a duty cycled solenoid that first applies partial pressure and later applies full pressure to the TCC. It makes the transition to TC lockup less noticeable. Thank those who want a buttery smooth shift.

Lastly, a 97 FSM should get you pretty close. Some wire colors or options change from year to year, but anything 96-98 should be similar. Even in th correct manual, sometimes info like wire colors is wrong. Or compression specs. I had to go rounds w/ a factory engineer once when the spec I read out of the manual was supposedly wrong. In the end they confirmed that it was right, but in the mean time it was real helpful of them to give me inaccurate info.

I have played with the TV cable a little I have it set now where the 97 FSM says to have it. If I go firmer it is seemingly worse (also making me think pressure). As far as the fluid I'm guessing original. When we got it it had 79k on it, and I doubt the origenal owner ever changed it. It does look good, and is at the correct level. I don't know much about tranys, but the way it acts I would gess that the pressure is to high making it hold first the way it does, and making it want to unlock the torque converter, but the computer knows from the RPS that it shouldn't be unlocked

 

[explorer]

I have played with the TV cable a little I have it set now where the 97 FSM says to have it. If I go firmer it is seemingly worse (also making me think pressure). As far as the fluid I'm guessing original. When we got it it had 79k on it, and I doubt the origenal owner ever changed it. It does look good, and is at the correct level. I don't know much about tranys, but the way it acts I would gess that the pressure is to high making it hold first the way it does, and making it want to unlock the torque converter, but the computer knows from the RPS that it shouldn't be unlocked

Try setting it a bit looser then as that is the direction you want it to go. If the ATF is original or you don't know, change it. Use the correct fluid.

I'm not sure I follow on the lockup problem. Is it not locking or is it slipping/shuddering?

 

[scoobyxj]

Try setting it a bit looser then as that is the direction you want it to go. If the ATF is original or you don't know, change it. Use the correct fluid.

I'm not sure I follow on the lockup problem. Is it not locking or is it slipping/shuddering?

When we got that is how it was set (looser). I noticed it didn't want to down shift at full throttle. So I reset it with XJ directions. It was shifting way to hard, and somtimes would upshift to second, then immediately down shift back to first, then back to second. So I looked up the proper procedure in a 97 ZJ FSM, and reset it accordingly. I do want to get the fluid changed but unimployment is prohibiting that for the moment (wanting to do the full flush method). As far as the lockup it is locking up and staying locked up (will unlock if given enough throttle though). It feals like a shudder or a miss in the engine. The only gear it does this in is 4th. If I turn the overdrive off it runs fine. One thing I havent checked is whether it still holds 1st when cold with the overdrive off. Im just kind of fishing with this here I plan on taking it to the shop (hopefully) in a week, or two if I can't come up with something I can check myself.

 

[Boris T]

The Mopar part number for the 44RE (behind the 5.2 in 96-98) ends in 7176. Those trannies are really picky on the fluid and as mentioned above, get really ugly if the incorrect fluid is used.

As to address the problem with the 95, it uses a 46RH (A-518) tranny and has an entirely different set of problems.

I would suggest www.nagca.com for help with either problem because the 44RE and 46RH are night and day from the AW-4. Also, Bionicdodge Forums has some tranny guys that can make suggestions.