What men already knew!

They measured what?!

If you're checking testosterone levels you might want to measure something besides their finger :doh:
 
XJ Dreamin' said:
They measured what?!

If you're checking testosterone levels you might want to measure something besides their finger :doh:

Actually, the finger measurement thing is a fairly good way to determine in utero testostrone exposure. Which inturn dictates a fair degree of masculinzation in an individual. Even lesbians have been shown to have that same trait in finger lengths. So although it's not a clinical gauge of testostrone levels it is a decent emprical inidcator.
 
SBrad001 said:
Actually, the finger measurement thing is a fairly good way to determine in utero testostrone exposure. Which inturn dictates a fair degree of masculinzation in an individual. Even lesbians have been shown to have that same trait in finger lengths. So although it's not a clinical gauge of testostrone levels it is a decent emprical inidcator.

Lets see...

10006364jo.jpg


Yeah. I'm good. :thumbup:

Hey! Scary thought. If I lose my ring finger does that affect...anything? :shocked:
 
XJ Dreamin' said:
Lets see...

10006364jo.jpg


Yeah. I'm good. :thumbup:

Hey! Scary thought. If I lose my ring finger does that affect...anything? :shocked:

You sure thats not your foot, boy those a fat fingers...:shocked: :angel: :D
 
xjdreamin, put your shoe back on.... study is based on the hand


hey my left hand the are botht the same length, but my right my ring finger is longer!!! yea baby.

plus i am a hairy mofo. that should also mean something
 
RichP said:
You sure thats not your foot, boy those a fat fingers...:shocked: :angel: :D

Ouch!

You wanna take this outside?! :gonnablow

No. The feet are size 14 and my toes aren't that long. That was march 17th on my now famous "New Seats" expedition. I put a Philips screwdriver into my finger. I can almost get my wedding band back on, but not quite yet.
 
Greenlantern said:
xjdreamin, put your shoe back on.... study is based on the hand


hey my left hand the are botht the same length, but my right my ring finger is longer!!! yea baby.

plus i am a hairy mofo. that should also mean something

Hot wax time!! Yeah baby. I can hear it now. Riiippp!!! Yaaaahhhh!!!
 
SBrad001 said:
Actually, the finger measurement thing is a fairly good way to determine in utero testostrone exposure. Which inturn dictates a fair degree of masculinzation in an individual. Even lesbians have been shown to have that same trait in finger lengths. So although it's not a clinical gauge of testostrone levels it is a decent emprical inidcator.
I can't help but roll my eyes at this one a bit. I'm assuming you're referring to Hurd & Bailey's studies in intrauterine testosterone exposure vs finger length in adulthood. Although there is some good face validity with this research, their methods and results lead to some big questions.

How much testosterone were the subjects exposed to in utero, and what is the relationship between finger length? Well, we don't know how much they were exposed to, because this was extrapolated, not measured. They also tested a small population of undergraduate students (300, IIRC). There is always the possibility that another factor better accounts for the results - especially in such a cohesive group. A possibility that turns up in most research that is not double blind (not to say that double blind is the only valuable research - but that's neither here nor there in this case).

The specious part however, is the part that asserts "in utero testosterone exposure levels dictate in turn a fair degree of masculinization in an individual". That I flatly don't believe, and there is no way to prove it one way or another. The statement, by its nature, is limited to being intuitive knowledge. "Masculinization" is a social feature. Established, determined and measured in a social context. I don't believe it can be teased out in a nature vs nurture argument, and I'm really starting to believe that the whole nature vs nurture is beside the point anyway, as one can never occur without the other...

On the other hand, in my case, a large rack greatly affects how I spend my money...

:D
 
Beej said:
I can't help but roll my eyes at this one a bit. I'm assuming you're referring to Hurd & Bailey's studies in intrauterine testosterone exposure vs finger length in adulthood. Although there is some good face validity with this research, their methods and results lead to some big questions.

How much testosterone were the subjects exposed to in utero, and what is the relationship between finger length? Well, we don't know how much they were exposed to, because this was extrapolated, not measured. They also tested a small population of undergraduate students (300, IIRC). There is always the possibility that another factor better accounts for the results - especially in such a cohesive group. A possibility that turns up in most research that is not double blind (not to say that double blind is the only valuable research - but that's neither here nor there in this case).

The specious part however, is the part that asserts "in utero testosterone exposure levels dictate in turn a fair degree of masculinization in an individual". That I flatly don't believe, and there is no way to prove it one way or another. The statement, by its nature, is limited to being intuitive knowledge. "Masculinization" is a social feature. Established, determined and measured in a social context. I don't believe it can be teased out in a nature vs nurture argument, and I'm really starting to believe that the whole nature vs nurture is beside the point anyway, as one can never occur without the other...

On the other hand, in my case, a large rack greatly affects how I spend my money...

:D



Well I think that's a bunch of BS. In researching, I found that both my ring fingers are only about a 1/4'' shorter than my middle fingers.

This lets me know that I'm ok. Before this thread I thought it was my third testicle.
 
Beej said:
I can't help but roll my eyes at this one a bit. I'm assuming you're referring to Hurd & Bailey's studies in intrauterine testosterone exposure vs finger length in adulthood. Although there is some good face validity with this research, their methods and results lead to some big questions.

How much testosterone were the subjects exposed to in utero, and what is the relationship between finger length? Well, we don't know how much they were exposed to, because this was extrapolated, not measured. They also tested a small population of undergraduate students (300, IIRC). There is always the possibility that another factor better accounts for the results - especially in such a cohesive group. A possibility that turns up in most research that is not double blind (not to say that double blind is the only valuable research - but that's neither here nor there in this case).

The specious part however, is the part that asserts "in utero testosterone exposure levels dictate in turn a fair degree of masculinization in an individual". That I flatly don't believe, and there is no way to prove it one way or another. The statement, by its nature, is limited to being intuitive knowledge. "Masculinization" is a social feature. Established, determined and measured in a social context. I don't believe it can be teased out in a nature vs nurture argument, and I'm really starting to believe that the whole nature vs nurture is beside the point anyway, as one can never occur without the other...

On the other hand, in my case, a large rack greatly affects how I spend my money...

:D


Didn't you catch the 'empirical' part? And doesn't empirical mean that it's been observed through research data, but that doesn't mean that there aren't cases where so-called rule is broken?

It's like the Reynold's Number in fluid dynamics. It's been boserved through laboratory experiments that the dimensionless number describes a multitude of processes, but there are some exceptions that it doesn't work for. It's empirical. Same thing with the 'finger'.

Plus, it's funny. :D
 
Beej said:
I can't help but roll my eyes at this one a bit. I'm assuming you're referring to Hurd & Bailey's studies in intrauterine testosterone exposure vs finger length in adulthood. Although there is some good face validity with this research, their methods and results lead to some big questions.

How much testosterone were the subjects exposed to in utero, and what is the relationship between finger length? Well, we don't know how much they were exposed to, because this was extrapolated, not measured. They also tested a small population of undergraduate students (300, IIRC). There is always the possibility that another factor better accounts for the results - especially in such a cohesive group. A possibility that turns up in most research that is not double blind (not to say that double blind is the only valuable research - but that's neither here nor there in this case).

The specious part however, is the part that asserts "in utero testosterone exposure levels dictate in turn a fair degree of masculinization in an individual". That I flatly don't believe, and there is no way to prove it one way or another. The statement, by its nature, is limited to being intuitive knowledge. "Masculinization" is a social feature. Established, determined and measured in a social context. I don't believe it can be teased out in a nature vs nurture argument, and I'm really starting to believe that the whole nature vs nurture is beside the point anyway, as one can never occur without the other...

On the other hand, in my case, a large rack greatly affects how I spend my money...

:D

Beej. Please. I did everything humanly (or studently) possible to avoid psychology lectures in college. Please don't make us sit through it here.

300 undergraduates! Now there's a cross section of the human condition if there ever was one. I don't know how they found time to measure their fingers. If they weren't picking their noses, scratching their butts or feeling up their date, they were wanking off. Now there's a nature vs. nurture case study right there. Which activity indicates the greatest level of testosterone?
 
XJ Dreamin' said:
If they weren't picking their noses, scratching their butts or feeling up their date, they were wanking off. Now there's a nature vs. nurture case study right there. Which activity indicates the greatest level of testosterone?
I don't know, I was making it up as I went along...


:D
 
Beej said:
I don't know, I was making it up as I went along...


:D

So were all my psych profs. :laugh3:
 
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