What are you doing to your rig - the continuing saga

Bad shocks, bad u joints, bad bushings in control arms,
Alignment, and steering box could all still be issues causing your death wobble...
There is more but these are the biggest issues past heims and ball joints that could still be causing it.
 
caster wont cause it. my caster is between 3 and 4 on both sides and drives perfect. You have damper? like kronik said too soft of front shocks and bad bushings in trackbar at axle end. just check your toe with tape measure. what tires do you have?
 
STEERING DAMPERS DO NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE.
BAD DAMPERS DO NOT CAUSE DEATH WOBBLE.

STOP THINKING THIS.

A new sock on dirty feet don't mean you have clean feet. Means you covered the issue. Same with DAMPERS.
 
I'll post my standard reply, and agree with Clark --- I have yet to see a case of death wobble that did not have a tire balance component to it. In all likelihood, there is more than one cause, and yes, bushings can be the culprit, but I'd bet dimes to donuts there is a balancing issue as well, and that's what the trigger to the wobble is...
 
how can you say that dampers are not reason for death wobble?

Uh experience, KNOWLEDGE. You know how many vehicles can run perfectly fine down the road without a damper? ALL! so long as all the other parts are set up correctly and not worn out

dampers do not cause problem but will take care of it. If they're goodyear tires that probably the problem

Uhm no, they wont fix it. FrankZ is exactly right its a bandaid.

For the most part, brand doesnt make a difference (unless you get into like goetracs or sumitomos or yokohamas) They all get some bad apples.



Basically, you are an idiot, and spreading GARBAGE advise on the internet about things you obviously know nothing about.
 
Tire imbalance plays a huge part in DW (in addition to other loose/worn parts), FWIW.

I have no DW ...I did not even have it when my front pass tire started to split a bead and start tearing the belting ...sure it vibed bad ,but no tire clubbing up /down DW ...I'm running 40 boggers so my tires are never balanced ...So if a slightly out of balance tire suddenly sends your tires pounding up/down off the ground by all means balance the tires ,but you have not fixed the problem ,and you could hit a bump and lose a balance weight or chunk a tire then what hold on just in case the front end starts jumping off the ground...lol...fix the root problem ,which is not a coupe ounces of balance strips.
 
Its lifted rigs with big tires and as far as i know no one is running stronger bearings or balljoints so they are gonna wear out faster and have more issues. When you get those big tires sloshing around it wears out steering joints, and can even damage the frame rail around the box. When you Beef up the rubber under your rig you need to beef up everything else. It can be a million things. Start with checking balance and front end parts cuz its the cheapest and easiest. Along with a good inspection of everything involved. I dunno why vibes and issues surprise people????
 
Uh experience, KNOWLEDGE. You know how many vehicles can run perfectly fine down the road without a damper? ALL! so long as all the other parts are set up correctly and not worn out

werd -- 7 years in my last XJ without a damper, no DW. 1+ years in the WJ with no damper, now DW. If its set up right and the parts are in good shape, the damper does a whole lot of jack shite!
 
We have all had the discussion on dampers. But one thing I was told is that they do help ware parts last longer. I will be tossing a damper on AFTER I fix the issue. Going to be getting long arms with my taxes instead of replacing bushings. Then after that I will get it aligned. Last time I had the front end apart I noticed the bushings were getting old.
 
I had death Wobble for more than 6 months on my daily driver with only a few inches of lift. I sold my expensive custom big a$$ rims & BFGs. I put in a HD sterring. Paid hundresd of hundreds of $ thinking I was fixing the problem, and nothing fixed it. I replaced my factory track bar with an adjustable track bar. After alot of adjusting. It was fixed. And i haven't had it in years.
Your axle is off center under your body. Everything trys to get into a equal position. Your axle is trying to become equal under your rig, and that is the death wobble trying to equal itself against the wrongly adjusted steering/suspension.
Try an adjustable track bar.
It fixed mine.
Not saying that is your answer. But it was my solution.
 
I had death Wobble for more than 6 months on my daily driver with only a few inches of lift. I sold my expensive custom big a$$ rims & BFGs. I put in a HD sterring. Paid hundresd of hundreds of $ thinking I was fixing the problem, and nothing fixed it. I replaced my factory track bar with an adjustable track bar. After alot of adjusting. It was fixed. And i haven't had it in years.
Your axle is off center under your body. Everything trys to get into a equal position. Your axle is trying to become equal under your rig, and that is the death wobble trying to equal itself against the wrongly adjusted steering/suspension.
Try an adjustable track bar.
It fixed mine.
Not saying that is your answer. But it was my solution.
it being off center, probably isnt the problem. the problem was the fact that your stock track bar was probably worn out and had some slack, which causes death wobble. been there, done that. it sucked.
 
another DW discussion... :rolleyes:

Riddle me this.

I have never replaced my steering stabilizer. It is only there because I don't feel like unbolting the blasted thing.

I have never put a new TRE or a new bushing on my rig.

It was at stock height. I had zero death wobble. I got a flat tire (due to too much fun rallying and a rock getting friendly with my sidewall as a result) and put my spare on. I had occasional death wobble so violent that at one point it literally broke the motor mount casting bosses off the side of the block. I had to replace the motor, there wasn't enough left to bolt the motor mount bracket back on.

While I was replacing the motor I put in the whole new drivetrain and finished the 4wd conversion, and lifted it. The new tires came off my old XJ. They were balanced 2 years and 20 thousand miles ago. Since then they have seen burnouts, severely dented rims, had the beats unseated, had lugs ripped off, had chunks of tread slashed out by fenders, etc. Never rebalanced.

The front lift consisted of two springs. I'm still running the same stock control arms, stock shock absorbers (replaced a few years ago), stock track bar (not even recentered), stock steering (same ZJ tie rod I used at stock height... realigned to same specs as before I lifted it) and I have zero deathwobble now. My camber is horrible because ktm racer did some pretty awesome jumps with this axle before I got it (for the right price) and I wasn't enthusiastic enough with my BFH while bending the inner Cs back into position.

Damn near anything in the frontend can cause deathwobble. A steering damper will not fix it. It will only weaken it or hide it, and it WILL come back when either the damper wears out somewhat, or the suspension gets looser and the damper is no longer enough to cover it up.

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Basically, your suspension is theoretically equivalent to a pendulum, with a very stiff spring holding it in the middle and a shock absorber in parallel with the spring (the spring is actually the equivalent of the springs, track bar, bushings, and to some degree the steering and balljoints.) The shocks and the steering damper are the equivalent of the shock absorber. Every pendulum has a 'characteristic frequency' that it will oscillate at, if 'pumped' by a rhythmically applied force at or near this frequency. Nothing about the damper or shocks will change this characteristic frequency - they can only decrease the 'quality factor' or Q factor, which decreases the peak intensity of the oscillations but widens the range of frequencies the pendulum will almost oscillate at. The real answer to fixing the problem is finding the part (bushings, control arms, track bar, steering links, TREs, balljoints, tire size/weight) that is making the characteristic frequency of the suspension fall within the range of frequencies applied by the road as you drive. With a properly maintained and engineered suspension, all the frequencies that the suspension will sustain oscillation at fall well outside the range of frequencies that can be applied by a road while driving. Unbalanced tires can cause deathwobble because they, like bumps in the road, can apply oscillating force at a frequency that depends on your road speed - and when you reach the road speed that results in the right frequency being applied to the suspension, it 'pumps' it and deathwobble starts up. Bad toe or caster can cause deathwobble because they push the suspension to start oscillating as it is - you can see what happens with crummy caster just by driving a bent shopping cart around and watching one front wheel flap, and bad toe is pretty easy to understand, because the tires are trying to fight each other for what direction you're going. Even bumpsteer is related - if you hit a pothole with the passenger wheel, the suspension can compress enough to cause the passenger wheel to swerve slightly, if it swerves at the right speed it can approximate the characteristic frequency of the suspension well enough to get deathwobble started.

Where things really get strange is how different parts of the road apply vibrations at different frequencies. Ever notice that a bridge expansion joint or pothole that you hit once in a while always seems to start your deathwobble off? That's because sudden impacts are effectively the sudden application of vibrations at a very wide range of frequencies (see also: Fourier transforms, Laplace transforms, Heaviside step function) and generally, your luck is bad and one of the frequencies involved falls in the range that will set off your deathwobble.

Any resonant system (the suspension, in this case) is either underdamped (BAD, deathwobble will result at the right frequency), critically damped (perfect), or overdamped (your steering will respond slowly, or you will get a lot of wheel hop.) You want your suspension to be critically damped at all frequencies but often that isn't possible, so you really want it to be critically damped within the range that it will spend most of its time in, overdamped where that is not possible, and under no circumstances should it be underdamped at any point that a normal vehicle can experience.

Bet you never expected to hear about physics, calculus, and differential equations while talking about jeeps, right? :spin1:

edit: if you're an electrical engineer you probably already know this, but it's exactly the same math that applies to RLC circuits, too.

The only conclusion I can come to from my experience (no deathwobble, swapped on spare tire, got deathwobble really bad) is that my suspension was worn enough that it was close to getting deathwobble, but the mass of the tires and wheels was low enough that the characteristic frequency was too high to be present. The spare tire had more tread and weighed enough that it brought the characteristic frequency of the suspension system down, and suddenly hitting a pothole could produce a high enough frequency vibration for just long enough to produce deathwobble. Putting on the higher-rate aftermarket lift springs and much heavier 33" tires resulted in the characteristic frequency dropping far enough that the suspension only experiences that frequency at low enough road speeds that deathwobble is more of a shimmy that only happens a few times before dying out (overdamped.)

in before "what's the frequency, Kenneth?!"
 
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