Welder: good or no?

[tommyboy]

is that one of those on board welders? and whats the price and durability as well as performance?

 

[jdbwrx]

I was just using my "peanut" welder again today (making new seat mounts) and was thinking about this thread again.

As mentioned already, even the cheap HF welder will be good to practice and learn on.

There is lots of info online about how to lay beads and different types of joints, patterns, techniques, etc. There also info about what to look for in the puddle and such. There are even some good quick videos out there. Lay a few beads, see what you get, then refernce that with some of the info out there. Once you actually start playing with things, a lot of what has been said will make more sense.

Check out Lincoln's website and their articles for more reading: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/list.asp

One thing that crossed my mind today was "redundancy". I don't put all my faith into a single bead if I can help it. That might not the case for some of these guys who are pros or have high power machines, but for me being a self taught hobby welder, I try and put things together in such a way that there is some redundancy, just in case something might fail. Just a thought.

 

[MaxxXJ]

I was just using my "peanut" welder again today (making new seat mounts) and was thinking about this thread again.

As mentioned already, even the cheap HF welder will be good to practice and learn on.

There is lots of info online about how to lay beads and different types of joints, patterns, techniques, etc. There also info about what to look for in the puddle and such. There are even some good quick videos out there. Lay a few beads, see what you get, then refernce that with some of the info out there. Once you actually start playing with things, a lot of what has been said will make more sense.

Check out Lincoln's website and their articles for more reading: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/list.asp

One thing that crossed my mind today was "redundancy". I don't put all my faith into a single bead if I can help it. That might not the case for some of these guys who are pros or have high power machines, but for me being a self taught hobby welder, I try and put things together in such a way that there is some redundancy, just in case something might fail. Just a thought.

i wish i had had one of those peanut wire fed welders this weekend =/ my " rod " was too big to run cold enough to lay a good bead on this super thin square tubing i was welding to, lets just say it was about
| | <-that thick... seriously it was maybe a 1/16th thick and it was all i could do to not blow a hole through the metal lol, and because i was having to run it really cold, i couldnt penetrate the metal... so i had to make a cold pass on top then run a hotter pass on top of it it get it to penetrate =/ my beads looked like crap after i got done with it, but nothing the grinder didnt fix after i ground them smooth =)... each type of welder has a purpose

 

[tommyboy]

Ya I've beenreading a lot and maybe tomorrow I'll go get some scrap to practice on. How thick of metal should I get?

 

[Justpunchit]

Good for making wheelie bars to do 1/4 times in the XJ

 

[jdbwrx]

Ya I've beenreading a lot and maybe tomorrow I'll go get some scrap to practice on. How thick of metal should I get?

Maybe start with some 1/8" or so. Mix it up. See what happens when you try and weld a thinner piece to thicker. Different angles, different kinds of intersections. Play with the settings.

It's gonna be a bit weird to start, but you'll start to see what happens and you'll have to run with it. There are a million ways to try and describe it, but so much of it is feel and seeing what is happening.

You're just messing with stuff to get a feel and start learning, there's no real right answer. Just get after it and go from there.

 

[sp4mike]

is that one of those on board welders? and whats the price and durability as well as performance?

Yes http://www.readywelder.com/

I've never seen one other then videos on you-tube, but
I have never read a bad review. They go for about $540 on ebay new. It seems like a cheap way to get a high end welder. Would love to hear from a pro welder that has used one though.

I guess the biggest drawback would be that you would need to keep recharging your batteries. But even a 24 volt charger added to the cost would still be much less then any other welder that can weld 1/2 inch in one pass.

 

[MaxxXJ]

Yes http://www.readywelder.com/

But even a 24 volt charger added to the cost would still be much less then any other welder that can weld 1/2 inch in one pass.

its not so much that it can weld a 1/2" in one pass, its penetration... you'd have to be going really slow and prolly run it a little on the colder side to stack a 1/2" of metal, its better to run 2-3 passes to make that 1/2" weld. if you want a real good solid weld, you will shape a V in the metal leaving a small gap, throwing a root pass in it, grinding it smooth leaving no " wagon tracks" ( little deposit lines on each side of the weld ) then going over that with what we call a hot pass or a filler pass which usually makes the weld about flat with with your welding on, then the final pass would be the cap, you can either grind it smooth or leave it, but thats how we do it out in the oilfields where we run steam lines that have 4-500 lbs of pressure and if our welds arent near perfect and spring a leak it will cost us money, so we do it for strength

 

[sp4mike]

My point was that you can't get a 400A welder for that cheap. At least not one that claims to weld from 22ga to 3/4 inch.

But I do appreciate your lesson as I know almost nothing about welding. I can make metal stick together, that's about the extent of my knowledge lol.

 

[helliphinon8]

Saying that the strongest and cleanest welds are produced by T.I.G welding is a pretty BOLD statement.

No it's not. It's the damn truth. If it's not the cleanest & strongest, then why are ALL aircrafts welded this way? Why does high pressure pipe for nuclear plants and oil pipe lines require at the least one T.I.G. root pass? Why are all custom chopper frames, sandrails, rock crawlers, dragtsers, nascar's and basically anything welded that can't have a weld failure welded by the GTAW process??? Don't comment about something in which you know nothing about.

 

[Slip Kid]

No it's not. It's the damn truth. If it's not the cleanest & strongest, then why are ALL aircrafts welded this way? Why does high pressure pipe for nuclear plants and oil pipe lines require at the least one T.I.G. root pass? Why are all custom chopper frames, sandrails, rock crawlers, dragtsers, nascar's and basically anything welded that can't have a weld failure welded by the GTAW process??? Don't comment about something in which you know nothing about.

+1

 

[jeeperjohn]

No it's not. It's the damn truth. If it's not the cleanest & strongest, then why are ALL aircrafts welded this way? Why does high pressure pipe for nuclear plants and oil pipe lines require at the least one T.I.G. root pass? Why are all custom chopper frames, sandrails, rock crawlers, dragtsers, nascar's and basically anything welded that can't have a weld failure welded by the GTAW process??? Don't comment about something in which you know nothing about.

X3, TIG welding is simply strongest, no question about it. Part of the reason is that TIG produces a smaller heat affected zone, reducing changes in the molecular structure of the surrounding metal that can lead to fatigue and cracks.

 

[JEEPS]

X3, TIG welding is simply strongest, no question about it. Part of the reason is that TIG produces a smaller heat affected zone, reducing changes in the molecular structure of the surrounding metal that can lead to fatigue and cracks.

This thread, for some reason, lives again and I don't know why. Hasta

I do know that this argument of what type of weld is strongest may interest some so I will throw out my professional opinion based on what I know and see. TIG welding is not simply the strongest weld. I will exclude the many dozens of welding prcess that can be far stronger than TIG and focus on the big three. (Stick, MIG, TIG) TIG welding does not always produce a smaller heat affected zone. It can but that depends on the speed and heat input. MIG tends to beat TIG welding as far as having a smaller heat affected zone because of its higher travel speed and lower heat input. TIG welding is used often times because of cosmetics. It is an excellent process for pipe and tubing and can more easily produce sound welds free of porostiy and other weld defects when compared to Wire welding or Stick welding on pipe or tube. That is why nuclear, food, and pressure piping sees so much TIG welding. It is often used on aircraft because TIG is an overall cleaner, more consistant, and stronger process on aluminum. (that is why it was invented) It is a very clean process which is nice except when you are welding over mill scale or coated steels. That is when TIG welding becomes one of the worst welding process because it has such poor cleaning characteristics compared to the other processes like Stick or flux core welding. TIG welding also has lower penetration than other kinds of welding such as certain Stick electrodes and Flux Core. This of course makes it weaker with certain joint configurations. TIG welding is also more crack prone than some other types of welding due to the fact that it is not a low hydrogen process. In short, you need to make sure your material isn't too thick and/or too cold otherwise your pretty TIG weld could be susceptable to cold cracking or hot cracking because of hydrogen embrittlement. All said, this all makes TIG welding a weaker process in many situations and superior process in many other situations. Depending on the material, position, thickness, and the skill of the person, TIG can be as strong or stronger than many welding processes but it certainly isn't going to considered the strongest best at everything. I have roughly 15,000 hours of TIG welding experience, I am a structural welding inspector, and also a welding instructor. As much as I wanted to not add to this thread that was dead three months ago, I just had to throw my two cents in before 50 people agreed that TIG welding is the strongest with no questions asked. :lecture:

time for bed,
Jeeps
'00 4.0 5sp built and green

 

[xjnuttier]

I have been using the HF welder for several years now, and yes I admit the short duty cycle is a lil bit of a drawback, but I do prep work for the next weld, when it is cooling down. I have welded 1/4" with mine, and it is holding great. I replaced all the suspension brackets on a tandem axle trailer with it, and that is holding up well also. I know this welder is limited compared to a much more expensive models, but don't discount that it does a fine job. The main reason I bought the welder was to replace a section of unibody in an old VW, and that car is still running around with no broken welds. I think a key to a lot of this is, experience. I am not a pro welder, i did have 3 yrs of welding in high school, but I am self taught on a mig, and of course do have friends who weld pro to answer my questions. Prep is the other factor in a good weld also, I believe the pro's here will agree. I have been super satisfied with all the projects and results this lil welder has given me. I read thru the majority of this post, and I have to believe that a lot of the bashing done to this welder is by people who have never used this welder. I did purchase there larget 110 volt welder, so it was around 230 bucks, I think, that would be the only difference in my experience with harbor freight welders VS. the less expensive one you are talking about. Now if you want to talk about junk, don't buy a HF recip saw, LOL. I owned one for 5 minutes, 2nd cut, and the motor burned up...LOL it was 12 bucks..

 

[jeeperjohn]

This thread, for some reason, lives again and I don't know why. Hasta

I do know that this argument of what type of weld is strongest may interest some so I will throw out my professional opinion based on what I know and see. TIG welding is not simply the strongest weld. I will exclude the many dozens of welding prcess that can be far stronger than TIG and focus on the big three. (Stick, MIG, TIG) TIG welding does not always produce a smaller heat affected zone. It can but that depends on the speed and heat input. MIG tends to beat TIG welding as far as having a smaller heat affected zone because of its higher travel speed and lower heat input. TIG welding is used often times because of cosmetics. It is an excellent process for pipe and tubing and can more easily produce sound welds free of porostiy and other weld defects when compared to Wire welding or Stick welding on pipe or tube. That is why nuclear, food, and pressure piping sees so much TIG welding. It is often used on aircraft because TIG is an overall cleaner, more consistant, and stronger process on aluminum. (that is why it was invented) It is a very clean process which is nice except when you are welding over mill scale or coated steels. That is when TIG welding becomes one of the worst welding process because it has such poor cleaning characteristics compared to the other processes like Stick or flux core welding. TIG welding also has lower penetration than other kinds of welding such as certain Stick electrodes and Flux Core. This of course makes it weaker with certain joint configurations. TIG welding is also more crack prone than some other types of welding due to the fact that it is not a low hydrogen process. In short, you need to make sure your material isn't too thick and/or too cold otherwise your pretty TIG weld could be susceptable to cold cracking or hot cracking because of hydrogen embrittlement. All said, this all makes TIG welding a weaker process in many situations and superior process in many other situations. Depending on the material, position, thickness, and the skill of the person, TIG can be as strong or stronger than many welding processes but it certainly isn't going to considered the strongest best at everything. I have roughly 15,000 hours of TIG welding experience, I am a structural welding inspector, and also a welding instructor. As much as I wanted to not add to this thread that was dead three months ago, I just had to throw my two cents in before 50 people agreed that TIG welding is the strongest with no questions asked. :lecture:

time for bed,
Jeeps
'00 4.0 5sp built and green

Good info and quite correct. I should have added that TIG is the strongest for the type of things I weld, mainly tubing and small parts. I wish I could take a good welding course to master some different techniques and learn some different processes.