tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
-
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Welder: good or no?
- Thread starter tommyboy
- Start date
dgrigorenko
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Rapids MI
foxwar71
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Foxboro, MA
x2. i love mine, handles everything on the jeep; bumpers, axles, frame plating. great machines. my brand new machine went through a shop fire and is still like new
You can do 3/16" with the H.F. loaded with flux-core wire. It's really hard to do thin stuff, though. The lowest setting (simply labelled "Min.") with flux-core will burn through 1/16" really easily. Then again, I'm not an experienced or even slightly trained welder. Just self taught, but my welding projects so far have turned out quite well.
helliphinon8
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Queen Creek, AZ
Miller & Lincoln are the most popular and widely used brands. Their quality has been tested for many decades. Both are great machines. I'm a welder by trade and have been for 11 years. The strongest and cleanest welds are produced by T.I.G. welding. Not the easiest to learn, but 300-400 amp macchines will weld material thicknesses from .005" up to 1 inch or even more with the right beveling, and multi passes. By far the easiest to use and cheapest is a M.I.G. welder. The Miller 180 would work great for anything you'll have to weld on your XJ. Again, if you're welding material thicker than 1/4'', you should bevel your work to get a solid root in your welds, plus miltiple passes(2-3)over 3/8'' thick. This really only applies to fillet joints like a "T" joint.
tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
What does beveling mean?
tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
And how do I know what to set the welder to for the thickness of a metal?
Beveling is grinding say a 90 edge down to a 45 degree. When you butt that up to something, it gives you a groove that gets filled in with material and gives better weld penetration. Kind of hard to put into words, easier to see it.
I have a Lincoln 100 that I got at Home Depot that has worked really well. I needed a 120v unit because the garage I am renting doesn't have 220. I have kept it flux core so it burns deeper on the thick stuff. It's a bit finicky getting it set sometimes, but it's been a great first little welder. Bumpers, cage, sliders, axle stuff, exhaust, etc.
Mine has a little chart on the inside for rough settings. It's more of guideline though and you'll start to figure out settings the more you weld and learn to adjust accordingly.
Saying that the strongest and cleanest welds are produced by T.I.G welding is a pretty BOLD statement.
tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
why do you say that?
MaxxXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bakersfield CA
=) you guys use those little cute peanut welders aww... lol my welder( im a welders helper) uses a lincoln 300D... it is able to throw out 300 Amps and my dad has a lincoln ranger 305g that produces 300 amps =) until you've used a big welder like those, you havent really welded.
tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
how much do one of those bad boys cost? i have no idea what they are, but the big numbers sound nardly lol!:laugh:
That statement is just to broad. There are many welding processes. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. I agree that tig is a great process, it can produce great welds. But all factors must be considered. Each process has it's place, it's all dependant on the application. I could do a pulsed spray mig weld that was just as strong and clean as a tig weld. I could program a laser that could possibly produce better welds than TIG in a proper application. Laser weld have super high energy densities. (Watts/Cm^2) This gives nice Depth to Width ratios. The HAZ is greatly reduced. It's hard to explain exacltly why, it's not as plain as black an white. Try to think about this. Lets say I do 3 fillet welds, one with TIG, one with Stick, and one with Mig. Each weld was done using a filler metal of equal tensile strength. All welds have exactly the same leg size. All welds are defective free, no porocity, no inclusions, all have a perfect bead. (no such thing as a perfect weld but this is just an example) How can you say that one is going to be stronger than the other. If all of them are the same size and have the same amount of fill, i could do a destructive test and they would all break at exactly the same strength. The strength of a weld is through the throut. This formula is out of a book called design of weldments. It says that a weld under a shear stress can hold .3xtensile strenth of the filler metal. Hope this helps you understand. It's not as easy as just saying one process is stronger than the other.
tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
i was lost at "that statement is just too broad" haha.
JEEPS
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Madison area, WI
Hobart and Miller are now the same machine. (same company owns both) They share the same internal parts which are nearly entirely made here in the USA. Both machine brands are as good as you are going to find. Lincoln is the next best if not equal in terms of quality on the higher end machines. Miller tends to come up with things first and use a little better components. Lincoln will use cheaper parts on their lower end machines when you compare them to the Miller equivalents. I have a Miller Maxstar 180 and love it. I have had many wirefeed welders before including the cheap harbor freight kinds. Just know that the harbor freight welding machines are not good for doing structural items. Especially the 110 volt ones. The chance for critical weld defects that an untrained eye will miss is highly likely. Now that is only if your weld needs to hold some important stuff together. (Stuff that involves the safety of people) They are good machines to start with for doing small sheet metal fabrications, body or exhaust work, or maybe tacking things together. They are horrible machines for doing control arm brackets, tow points, axle mounts and other things like that. I inspect welds for a living and have been training welders for many years now. 110 volt gas shielded mig welders are by far the worst machines to weld structural pieces with. The tendancy to lay a good looking weld that hasn't even burned through to the base metal, is very easy to do. The thicker the more prone it is. Gasless Flux core is not MIG and is much more forgiving on thicker stuff. Using flux core with the harbor freight 110 volt wirefeed welders will help greatly with thicker than body panel thickness sheet metal. It also welds through mill scale and minor rust much better.
Either way, a free welder of any kind should not go unused. I hope I don't come off as being too negative towards the cheaper machines. They have a place in our world. A lot can be learned and many things can be done with them. Just remember that a good looking weld doesn't mean a strong weld. Especially with the short circuit mig process. (which is all that most 110 volt MIG machines can do) :sunshine:
hope some of this stuff at least kind of helps you, :compwork:
Jeeps
'00 4.0 5sp XJ
Either way, a free welder of any kind should not go unused. I hope I don't come off as being too negative towards the cheaper machines. They have a place in our world. A lot can be learned and many things can be done with them. Just remember that a good looking weld doesn't mean a strong weld. Especially with the short circuit mig process. (which is all that most 110 volt MIG machines can do) :sunshine:
hope some of this stuff at least kind of helps you, :compwork:
Jeeps
'00 4.0 5sp XJ
tommyboy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Elk Grove, CA
thank you jeeps for the clarification. i actually understood this time lol. so ill just practice with it until i get confident with putting my money into a real welder. thx fellas.
That's sooo cute! You're a helper! Well my daddy's welder is bigger than your daddy's welder!
First Something Helpful:
I have a 110V Miller 135 and learned to weld by trial and error. With a lot of practice I got good enough to do sheet metal and multiple pass welds up to 3/16. You first couple of hundred inches of weld with the HF unit are probably going to look no different than mine, though the Miller machine is likely much easier to get a good weld with. In short order after you practice, practice, practice on every bit of scrap you can lay your hands on will be able to appreciate the difference in machines and you should be able to handle most light duty tasks.
1) Get as much scrap as you can, be spotlessly clean (rust, oils etc) and practice a lot. Get someone who knows how to weld give you some pointers, in person, it will speed up the learning process a lot. Go visit Phil or anyone else that will give you some help. Take the welder with you if you can and get a couple hours of "training". It may cost you a little beer and pizza but it will save you many hours of frustration.
2) Be realistic. Dont do life critical welding with it right out of the box. After a lot of practice have someone who knows what they are doing take a look at your work before you do anything that might get you or someone else hurt if the weld fails. If you or the welder are not up to the task be smart enough to pass on it and have someone else do the work.
Now for the fun part...
jdbwrx: Dont let it bother you. He's just trying to compensate for having a short welding rod or a weak arc. Its the "big watch" syndrome.
John
I have a 110V Miller 135 and learned to weld by trial and error. With a lot of practice I got good enough to do sheet metal and multiple pass welds up to 3/16. You first couple of hundred inches of weld with the HF unit are probably going to look no different than mine, though the Miller machine is likely much easier to get a good weld with. In short order after you practice, practice, practice on every bit of scrap you can lay your hands on will be able to appreciate the difference in machines and you should be able to handle most light duty tasks.
1) Get as much scrap as you can, be spotlessly clean (rust, oils etc) and practice a lot. Get someone who knows how to weld give you some pointers, in person, it will speed up the learning process a lot. Go visit Phil or anyone else that will give you some help. Take the welder with you if you can and get a couple hours of "training". It may cost you a little beer and pizza but it will save you many hours of frustration.
2) Be realistic. Dont do life critical welding with it right out of the box. After a lot of practice have someone who knows what they are doing take a look at your work before you do anything that might get you or someone else hurt if the weld fails. If you or the welder are not up to the task be smart enough to pass on it and have someone else do the work.
Now for the fun part...
That's sooo cute! You're a helper! Well my daddy's welder is bigger than your daddy's welder!
jdbwrx: Dont let it bother you. He's just trying to compensate for having a short welding rod or a weak arc. Its the "big watch" syndrome.
John
MaxxXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bakersfield CA
for a lincoln 305 ranger your looking at about 4 g's, gas powered weighs about 600 lbs, its a big toy
the lincoln 300D classic is about a 12500 machine, its about 1500 lbs diesel powered... its a beast
That's sooo cute! You're a helper! Well my daddy's welder is bigger than your daddy's welder!
not bad being a helper making 18/hr now is it...
