War?

[beakie]

Well said Sgt Green, I have tried passing those same feelings to those up here that can't understand why we are in Afghanistan.
the news/tv/internet will tell you whatever sells the most papers/ads/clicks.

the way I try to relate it is this:
I can watch the news and it says its raining on the other side of town at my buddies place, so I believe it... but when my buddy comes over for a few beer he tells me it was clear skies.

if you want answers, ask those who have been there... otherwise its not worth shit.

as for those who feel more security measures are required at the borders/airports/etc... thats what I would consider being somewhat re-active... going to their front doors/cave/hole in the ground... thats being pro-active.

 

[green_machine]

Your welcome guys and thank you too, for being supportive

 

[xjackel]

I may be alone on this forum, but 65% of Americans think the invasion was a mistake. If troops are fighting for our freedom, then their fighting for our right to have our own opinions. My opinion is our troops should not be fighting a loosing battle. Many countries have had success avoiding conflicts and I think we could too. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I'll stop posting because different ideas are obviously not welcome. I said some things I shouldn't have that I don't truly mean and for that 1000 apologies. is a great site that has taught me everything I need to know about my Jeep and I should've kept my mouth shut. I posted some statistics that I found interesting, and you can believe them or not. This will be my last post, so farewell and best of luck.:wave:


U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ

Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $800 billion of US taxpayers' funds spent or approved for spending through mid-2009, including $76 billion requested by President Obama and approved by Congress.

U.S. 2009 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $7.3 billion as of Oct 2009

U.S. 2008 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion

U.S. Spending per Second - $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq - $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq - $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing - $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq - 75 (The Nation/New York Times)

TROOPS IN IRAQ

Troops in Iraq - Total 115,000 U.S. troops as of November 30, 2009. All other nations have withdrawn their troops.

U.S. Troop Casualties - 4,374 US troops; 98% male. 91% non-officers; 82% active duty, 11% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 9% African-American, 11% Latino. 19% killed by non-hostile causes. 54% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 72% were from the US Army

Non-U.S. Troop Casualties - Total 316, with 179 from the UK

US Troops Wounded - 31,616 through September 30, 2009, 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries. (Total excludes psychological injuries.)

US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems - 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home

US Military Helicopters Downed in Iraq - 73 total, at least 36 by enemy fire

IRAQI TROOPS, CIVILIANS & OTHERS IN IRAQ

Private Contractors in Iraq, Working in Support of US Army Troops - More than 180,000 in August 2007, per The Nation/LA Times.

Journalists killed - 140, 93 by murder and 47 by acts of war

Journalists killed by US Forces - 14

Iraqi Police and Soldiers Killed - 9,356

Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.

Iraqi Insurgents Killed, Roughly Estimated - 55,000

Non-Iraqi Contractors and Civilian Workers Killed - 569

Non-Iraqi Kidnapped - 306, including 57 killed, 147 released, 4 escaped, 6 rescued and 89 status unknown.

Daily Insurgent Attacks, Feb 2004 - 14

Daily Insurgent Attacks, July 2005 - 70

Daily Insurgent Attacks, May 2007 - 163

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000

QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS

Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War, as of May 2007 - 2,255,000

Iraqi Refugees in Syria & Jordan - 2.1 million to 2.25 million

Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect

Consumer Price Inflation in 2006 - 50%

Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007 (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%

Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000

Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000

Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 1 to 2 hours, per Ryan Crocker, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (Per Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2007)

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007

Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007

Pre-War Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 16 to 24

Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%

Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70% (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%

Iraqis who feel less secure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%

 

[XJEEPER]

I can sum the topic of war up in two words:

Good.....Evil

Both have been around since mankind was placed on the Earth. Because of this, you have to choose a side.

"Bully on the Playground" is a simplified example which most can relate.

Rarely do the Bullies think they are doing anything wrong, because there are plenty of toaties sucking up to them and supporting their actions, because the toaties know that if they don't, the bully will pick on them too.

When the day comes, and it always does come, that an individual or group of individuals has the courage to stand up to the bully, call him out for what he is and inform him that his power-trip is over, Peace is restored to the playground.......until enough time passes that another Bully shows up to start the process again.

Now apply this on a global scale and it's pretty easy for even the kids on the short bus to pick out the Bullys.


Billions of people since the beginning of mankind have lost their lives, just because they weren't supportive of their own leaders, were the "wrong race or ethinicity" or just plain consumed too many resources, in the minds of those in a position to make them dead.

When those who believe that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are inalienable, God-given rights, it is difficult for them to sit by and watch, beat on our chest and yell for the bad guys to knock it off......it just doesn't have the same results as striking swiftly, with enough force to make those perpetuating the Evil deeds on their fellow men to stop.

Historically, those who have conceeded to sitting around in a circle and singing kum-ba-ya as the best solution, have eventually wound up fertilizing their own little patch of Earth, unless some other group to their rescue with enough firepower to keep them from being killed.

This world will never be without wars, contention and conflict until the great day when the evil influence of Satan is gone.

Until then, we must continue to fight for and defend what is good and right.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmond Burke

 

[AIbandit]

All this talk about french toast makes me hungry

 

[hubs97xj]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I'll stop posting because different ideas are obviously not welcome.

You apologize, but not without taking another jab. Classy.

 

[AIbandit]

Maybe war is good. It gets rid of the people that can't think for themselves.

You're right this opinion is not welcome here.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

All this talk about french toast makes me hungry

I was gonna have some freedom toast for dinner but was out of eggs. So it is pork chop sandwiches instead

You apologize, but not without taking another jab. Classy.

Would you expect any less. I still love the line about "Fighting a loosing battle". Even The House Dems had given up on that term as being a little ridiculous.

 

[ECKSJAY]

I worked with a guy named Samo that did two tours in Iraq, and he said he would rather go to jail than go back over there. He has lost the majority of his hearing and is struggling with insomnia.

I'd pay to hear what Samo the Magical Fobbit's chain of command would say about him. Chances are he was a worthless POS and people couldn't WAIT to get him out of the office. He probably lost his hearing from playing his iPod too loud.

:looser:

 

[theNAST1EST]

Sheesh, 12 pages...the troll accomplished one thing...

 

[Boatwrench]

As a moderator thought of locking this thread after SGT Green's post. Not more needed to be said after that one. I wish I had. Erik has also had this thread & post reported, and although it is understandable how the person reporting can be upset; the thought of the war protestors who also say things I think are stupid popped into my head. The Constitution, Freedom of Speech that the men and women of the armed forces stand up to protect & perserve allow these folks to express that opinion, no matter how messed up or controversial we may think it to be. Maybe when Erick gets older he will understand.

SGT Green, thank you for your service. Thank you for eloquently explaining things to young Erik. Alas, he is just to young to get it.


BT---BT---BT

A.I.
I really like Texas Toast the best.

 

[msrorysddad]

:us::lecture:
To all whom have, are and will serve, my family thanks you.
Xjspackle, don't get your feelings hurt, just don't do the lefty shuffle on a board that seems to not lean to the left and expect people to not flame you.
I like home made toast with honey, a large glass of milk, and the smell of smokeless powder emanating from my black rifles. Mmmmm
Wolfpack, porkchop sandwiches, get the **** outta here, G.I. Joe PSA

 

[DeftwillP]

Thank you, SGT. Green.

x11tybillionatriot:

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

:us::lecture:
Wolfpack, porkchop sandwiches, get the **** outta here, G.I. Joe PSA

They were delicious, not the freedom toast I wanted, but delicious. I let them soak in some terayaki sauce with some lemon pepper, seasoned salt, chili powder, and pepper, with a touch of Worcestershire sauce. Then grill them. Add some AuGratin potatoes and green beans with a Sunkist and that was a tasty meal. Plus my radar strike flight for tomorrow was just cancelled, so my night is rockin'.

I did think of the GI Joe PSA a few times while cooking though.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Hey kid, I'm a computer. Stop all the downloadin'.

 

[XJEEPER]

I may be alone on this forum, but 65% of Americans think the invasion was a mistake. If troops are fighting for our freedom, then their fighting for our right to have our own opinions. My opinion is our troops should not be fighting a loosing battle. Many countries have had success avoiding conflicts and I think we could too. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I'll stop posting because different ideas are obviously not welcome. I said some things I shouldn't have that I don't truly mean and for that 1000 apologies. is a great site that has taught me everything I need to know about my Jeep and I should've kept my mouth shut. I posted some statistics that I found interesting, and you can believe them or not. This will be my last post, so farewell and best of luck.:wave:

Current cost of
U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ

Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $800 billion of US taxpayers' funds spent or approved for spending through mid-2009, including $76 billion requested by President Obama and approved by Congress.

Now you just sound whiney......it's OK that people don't agree with you. I don't agree with everything that is happening or has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, but pulling out before the job is done is not an option. Our troops are not being allowed to do the job they are capable of doing, blame this on politics.

You should be more concerned about the enemy within the current US Goverment. They are at war with capitalism, your Freedom and Liberty.

For some perspective:

• Current cost of the Iraq War......$703 Billion http://costofwar.com/

Cost of bailouts:

• In 2009 alone, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have cost taxpayer $300 Billion. http://www.housingwire.com/2010/01/14/fannie-freddie-cost-government-291bn-in-2009/

• AIG Bailout $182 Billion http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/19/business/main6116417.shtml

• The Federal Reserve has committed $5.5 trillion and spent $2.1 trillion. These amounts relate to various initiatives aimed at the mortgage crisis and credit freeze, including the Citigroup bailout and the shotgun marriage of JPMorgan and Bear Stearns.

• The FDIC has committed $1.5 trillion and spent $149 billion to guarantee Citigroup assets, interbank loans, and prop up GE Capital.

• The Treasury has committed $1.1 trillion and spent $597 billion, not including the automaker bailout that will get tapped by GM before year-end. The Treasury's programs include the Troubled Asset Relief Program, tax rebate checks of 2008, tax breaks for banks, and a program to stabilize foreign currency exchange rates.

• The FHA has committed and tapped $300 billion to ramp up the Hope for Homeowners program.

True cost, budget deficit impact unknown


Given the nature of the various bailout initiatives, it's not possible to estimate the final true cost, or even the deficit impact of these programs. Several initiatives were structured as investments, allowing for positive returns over time. But allowing for positive returns, and achieving positive returns, are two very different things. The possibility of making a buck on these transactions, for example, seems dim:

• Hope for Homeowners. The $300 billion initiative is expected to avert fewer than 14,000 foreclosures in its first year. At that rate, it seems doubtful that the resulting equity share arrangements could cumulatively cover the cost of the program-let alone heal the mortgage crisis.

I won't even dig into the costs to the taxpayer in money wasted on Climate Change junk science and Healthcare reform.......