Violence spilling across the border; 4 dead from wedding

[ZomBrady]

You 'tards that seem to think it's racist to point out that we have illegal aliens committing heinous crimes in the U.S. can bite me. Here's another example of how we need to control our Southern borders more tightly.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Interna...ter-kidnapping-at-wedding/UPI-61981273669627/

And where's the media coverage of this? Too busy sucking up to Obama and Pelosi?

 

[DansGreyMj]

Of course the media won't cover it, he was a US citizen.

 

[Boatwrench]

How about this article from the San Francisco Chronicle, a very liberal paper from a very liberal city.

Just because they are US citizens does not mean they are not dirt bags involved in cross border smuggling and not some innocent by standers. Not enough information to determine either way.

and with your "tards" intro I really want to say get your cup so I can pour you some STFU but that would be mean on my part, so I won't. :shocked:


Thread hi-jack.
But what would the cost to the average American be if there was not a ready supply of cheap labor? I spent this last weekend traveling in southern California, the maid service at the hotel was of mexican orgin, the bus staff & some of the wait staff at the resturants were of mexican orgin (probably the cooks and bottle washers also), the grounds keepers of the resort properties were of mexican origin. How much more would the cost of my trip been if they were not of suspicious citizenship? It is not just southern California, but the whole US. Do you go out to dinner? Do you stay at hotels and motels? Then you are contributing.

Need the house painted, re modeled whatever? Get three bids and go with the lowest correct? Of course it is human nature to go with the least expensive. The white owner of the firm looks good enough, speaks well, is energetic, then the workers show up, all Mexican or central American, listening to Mariachi radio. It happens.

So there is the American middle class quandry with illegal immigration. What are we willing to fore go? How much more are we willing to pay for lunch? to have the house roofed, lawns mowed? How many on this website that speak loudly from their terminal will eat lunch at a McDonald's, Burger Barn, Chili's or where ever that has a back room with immigrant dish washers?

The rich don't care, the poor are struggling enough and can't afford to care, the middle class want to have the good life and enjoy the wealth of consumption of $5 value meals but yet complain the loudest about illegals.

I mow my own lawn, rake my own leaves because the guy in the beat up pick-up truck w/expired tags that stops by the house everytime I am out there sweating my butt off and offers to do it for $25 per week just doesn't speak good enough English for me. Yet the neighbors, middle class white guys that complain about illegal immigrants sure have a nicer looking yard and spend most weekends at the lake.

I don't get it.

Rant out.

 

[kastein]

Thread hi-jack.
But what would the cost to the average American be if there was not a ready supply of cheap labor? I spent this last weekend traveling in southern California, the maid service at the hotel was of mexican orgin, the bus staff & some of the wait staff at the resturants were of mexican orgin (probably the cooks and bottle washers also), the grounds keepers of the resort properties were of mexican origin. How much more would the cost of my trip been if they were not of suspicious citizenship? It is not just southern California, but the whole US. Do you go out to dinner? Do you stay at hotels and motels? Then you are contributing.

You got me there. I never stay at hotels and rarely (maybe once every few months for a night or two, last time was a Rausch Creek trip) at motels. But I eat at Moe's tex/mex about once a week... I don't think they hire illegals, and I love tex/mex and mexican food, so sue me :dunno:

Need the house painted, re modeled whatever? Get three bids and go with the lowest correct? Of course it is human nature to go with the least expensive. The white owner of the firm looks good enough, speaks well, is energetic, then the workers show up, all Mexican or central American, listening to Mariachi radio. It happens.

I'm not getting quotes and I'm not hiring anyone (except friends, possibly.) My calculations indicate that it'll cost me about 2 or 3 grand in materials plus about 500 in tools, I'll sweat my ass off for a week up on the roof and get it done. Drywalling, electrical, plumbing, masonry, etc are also in the plans...

So there is the American middle class quandry with illegal immigration. What are we willing to fore go? How much more are we willing to pay for lunch? to have the house roofed, lawns mowed? How many on this website that speak loudly from their terminal will eat lunch at a McDonald's, Burger Barn, Chili's or where ever that has a back room with immigrant dish washers?

immigrant dishwashers are fine. Illegal immigrant dishwashers are not. Most of the time I stay at home and cook for myself, I'm sitting at my desk eating a peanut butter and fluff sandwich right now.

I mow my own lawn, rake my own leaves because the guy in the beat up pick-up truck w/expired tags that stops by the house everytime I am out there sweating my butt off and offers to do it for $25 per week just doesn't speak good enough English for me. Yet the neighbors, middle class white guys that complain about illegal immigrants sure have a nicer looking yard and spend most wekends at the lake.

Wish more people did the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people on here DO do the same, seeing as jeepers tend to be cheap bastards... it's usually cheaper to do it yourself than it is to pay someone, even an illegal, to do it :roflmao:

 

[fscrig75]

How about this article from the San Francisco Chronicle, a very liberal paper from a very liberal city.

Just because they are US citizens does not mean they are not dirt bags involved in cross border smuggling and not some innocent by standers. Not enough information to determine either way.

Nothing in that article even says anything about them being scum. There is no evidence at all that those 4 had done anything wrong. Are you saying they are guilty just because they were in Juarez?

"Family members told the El Paso Times they did not know why the men were targeted.

Authorities didn't provide a motive from the killings, but Ciudad Juarez has been shaken by violence as gangs fight bloody battles for drug routes north and control of territory. There have been more than 4,300 killings linked to organized crime in Ciudad Juarez since President Felipe Calderon launched his war on drugs in December 2006."

I just moved from there and what I was told from locals is that if you have money and you are across the bridge, from El Paso, you are always in danger.

 

[Boatwrench]

Nothing in that article even says anything about them being scum. There is no evidence at all that those 4 had done anything wrong. Are you saying they are guilty just because they were in Juarez?

Exactly why I stated that the article didn't have enough information to determine either way. Dan states the media wouldn't cover this because the victims were US citizens, I am making the point that being a US citizen does not give you a pass and mean you get to wear the white hat being the good guy, prisons here in the US are full of US citizens.

"Family members told the El Paso Times they did not know why the men were targeted.
A person gets killed by violent action and the families all say the same thing..."He was a good boy, he was not in a gang" I take those comments with a grain of salt. I'd be a rich man if I had a nickel for everytime this was stated by the mother and the kid has the tats. Even my own cousin said the same thing about her son when he was killed by gang violence.

Authorities didn't provide a motive from the killings, but Ciudad Juarez has been shaken by violence as gangs fight bloody battles for drug routes north and control of territory. There have been more than 4,300 killings linked to organized crime in Ciudad Juarez since President Felipe Calderon launched his war on drugs in December 2006."
1,075 killings linked to organized crime annually. So is that 50% of all the killings? 25%? 10%? I don't know. Chances are that number is closer to 90%, that would rationalize out to a 10% chance these people were murdered due to a jilted lover, botched robbery, or worse case scenario mistaken identity.

I just moved from there and what I was told from locals is that if you have money and you are across the bridge, from El Paso, you are always in danger.
Good advice that a reasonable person would heed.

 

[ZomBrady]

How about this article from the San Francisco Chronicle, a very liberal paper from a very liberal city.

Just because they are US citizens does not mean they are not dirt bags involved in cross border smuggling and not some innocent by standers. Not enough information to determine either way.

and with your "tards" intro I really want to say get your cup so I can pour you some STFU but that would be mean on my part, so I won't. :shocked:


Thread hi-jack.
But what would the cost to the average American be if there was not a ready supply of cheap labor? I spent this last weekend traveling in southern California, the maid service at the hotel was of mexican orgin, the bus staff & some of the wait staff at the resturants were of mexican orgin (probably the cooks and bottle washers also), the grounds keepers of the resort properties were of mexican origin. How much more would the cost of my trip been if they were not of suspicious citizenship? It is not just southern California, but the whole US. Do you go out to dinner? Do you stay at hotels and motels? Then you are contributing.

Need the house painted, re modeled whatever? Get three bids and go with the lowest correct? Of course it is human nature to go with the least expensive. The white owner of the firm looks good enough, speaks well, is energetic, then the workers show up, all Mexican or central American, listening to Mariachi radio. It happens.

So there is the American middle class quandry with illegal immigration. What are we willing to fore go? How much more are we willing to pay for lunch? to have the house roofed, lawns mowed? How many on this website that speak loudly from their terminal will eat lunch at a McDonald's, Burger Barn, Chili's or where ever that has a back room with immigrant dish washers?

The rich don't care, the poor are struggling enough and can't afford to care, the middle class want to have the good life and enjoy the wealth of consumption of $5 value meals but yet complain the loudest about illegals.

I mow my own lawn, rake my own leaves because the guy in the beat up pick-up truck w/expired tags that stops by the house everytime I am out there sweating my butt off and offers to do it for $25 per week just doesn't speak good enough English for me. Yet the neighbors, middle class white guys that complain about illegal immigrants sure have a nicer looking yard and spend most weekends at the lake.

I don't get it.

Rant out.

You know, that's complete bullsh!t. Here in New Mexico, it's a common occurrence to "white" folk working all those jobs. I joined the Marines and then went to college to afford myself the chance of better career. If I lost my job today, I would immediately go out looking for a job doing anything. I've worked in wastewater treatment. I've flipped hamburgers. I've even worked spreading roofing tar. And yeah, it sucks, but it's work.

I think that most Americans would and do the same. It's part of what make Americans great people. It's the cop-out to say that we wouldn't work those jobs, and illegal is illegal.

 

[RichP]

I always ask, my roofers, local family, they live about 4 miles away and I know them, the plumber, he lives up the street, same with the electrician, the guy who paved my driveway, he goes to my church and my kids know the people who work for him, they went to HS together. Yea, I'm rural, everybody knows everybody, my kids still gripe about never being able to get away with anything because we would hear about it at the supermarket/gas station/diner
Now the tree farms, they hire south american's, bunch from Peru that vanish whenever ice is around and you see a few blacked out suburbans cruising the area with gvt plates. I don't think there are too many in the construction trades or you would hear about bodies showing up, we have alot of locals that are tradesman/women in our area.

 

[Boatwrench]

You know, that's complete bullsh!t. Here in New Mexico, it's a common occurrence to "white" folk working all those jobs. I joined the Marines and then went to college to afford myself the chance of better career. If I lost my job today, I would immediately go out looking for a job doing anything. I've worked in wastewater treatment. I've flipped hamburgers. I've even worked spreading roofing tar. And yeah, it sucks, but it's work.

I think that most Americans would and do the same. It's part of what make Americans great people. It's the cop-out to say that we wouldn't work those jobs, and illegal is illegal.

It's not complete BS, it's BS in your case, and Rich's case and my case. If the jobs were not available, the illegal immigrants would not have come here to work them, someone is hiring them, the resturants, the hotels, the landscaper, the independent contractor.

I have posted elsewhere you want to end illegal immigration, then make it un-lucrative to hire illegals. Seize the assets of those profitting by hiring them. The contractor, seize his tools and truck. You'll see real immigration reform or change to border policing when Conrad loses a few hotels and some rich lawyer loses his home because of the nanny, housekeeper, or landscaper. Until then you are shoveling sand against the tide. No due process in the seizures? It's the same as seizing cars of johns or drunk drivers.

 

[XJEEPER]

Thread hi-jack.

But what would the cost to the average American be if there was not a ready supply of cheap labor? I spent this last weekend traveling in southern California, the maid service at the hotel was of mexican orgin, the bus staff & some of the wait staff at the resturants were of mexican orgin (probably the cooks and bottle washers also), the grounds keepers of the resort properties were of mexican origin. How much more would the cost of my trip been if they were not of suspicious citizenship? It is not just southern California, but the whole US. Do you go out to dinner? Do you stay at hotels and motels? Then you are contributing.

Need the house painted, re modeled whatever? Get three bids and go with the lowest correct? Of course it is human nature to go with the least expensive. The white owner of the firm looks good enough, speaks well, is energetic, then the workers show up, all Mexican or central American, listening to Mariachi radio. It happens.

So there is the American middle class quandry with illegal immigration. What are we willing to fore go? How much more are we willing to pay for lunch? to have the house roofed, lawns mowed? How many on this website that speak loudly from their terminal will eat lunch at a McDonald's, Burger Barn, Chili's or where ever that has a back room with immigrant dish washers?

The rich don't care, the poor are struggling enough and can't afford to care, the middle class want to have the good life and enjoy the wealth of consumption of $5 value meals but yet complain the loudest about illegals.

I mow my own lawn, rake my own leaves because the guy in the beat up pick-up truck w/expired tags that stops by the house everytime I am out there sweating my butt off and offers to do it for $25 per week just doesn't speak good enough English for me. Yet the neighbors, middle class white guys that complain about illegal immigrants sure have a nicer looking yard and spend most weekends at the lake.

I don't get it.

Rant out.

As I've said before Tom, you've been drinking the Socialism Cool-aid too long.......

April 22, 2010-PHOENIX -- Job hunters turned out in the hundreds to fill recently-vacant positions at Pro's Ranch Market stores, where a federal audit led to the firing of some 300 workers.

Roxanne Nieves, one of the many that came out in search of a job, said she came to apply after she heard about the layoffs.

"We heard they are firing a lot of illegal people, so we're here to apply," she said.

Nonetheless, she and many others felt guilty about taking the jobs of the people who had just been fired.

"To me, it's pretty hard to see everybody losing jobs," one job hunter said.

About 300 of the 1,500 total employees at the six Phoenix supermarkets were let go this week after an Immigration and Customs Enforcement audit found them to be working illegally.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Hundre...-positions-at-Pros-Ranch-Market-91880224.html


By the US Tax Commissions definition, I fit the "middle-class" category. My kids do yardwork, along with my wife and I.

I hired US Citizens to pour concrete, frame my patio cover and add curbing to my yard a couple of years ago.....and it wasn't because they were the low bid.

I hire a resourceful neighbor kid to aerate my yard each year to help him earn money for school.

Due to the dynamic nature of my job, I eat lunch in restaraunts/sandwich shops at least 3 days a week.
I don't pay any less for a meal at a shop that employs a staff of Hispanic, Asian, Arabic, Islamic, Canadian, Pakistani, Turkish, Italian or other decent.

You are regurgitating Progressive talking points.



"In the first place, we should insist that if the [COLOR=#000899 !important][COLOR=#000899 !important]immigrant[/COLOR][/COLOR] who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.
But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here.
Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”—Theodore Roosevelt, 1907

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/troosevelt.asp

 

[FordGuy]

Bottom line is the law needs to be enforced or changed. By the way, I stay at hotels, eat Mex food, will never waste my time painting my house, and will never mow my lawn...ever.

 

[Boatwrench]

I'm not saavy enough to do the multiple quote thing...the problem with this form of communication is the complete message never gets across. Just because I point out the flip side of the coin does not mean I am an advocate for that position.

In no particular order...

NO WHERE DID I WRITE OR EVEN THINK THAT AMERICANS WOULD NOT WORK OR PERFORM THESE JOBS. I don't know why every response focuses on this. I am glad you are all hiring US citizens, I do too. Preparing the house I moved into last October was done by local guys that grew up in the small town (70K pop) that worked solo...except for the painter who hired ex-cons.

I view the problem being with the employers (I know socialist kool-aid...) who HIRE the illegals over working americans. If the employers would not provide illegals the job, they would go elsewhere looking for work.

but for whatever reason ( i believe greed, maybe that's harse let's be PC shall we..."profit margin") they choose to hire the illegals who will work for less, work in fear ( my pro-union stance) of reprisal if they report any wage or safety discrepancies.

The resturants charge roughly the same, but are the wages paid out the same?

What reason did Pro-Ranch Market give for hiring 300 (that's a lot) of illegal workers? summed up...We didn't know... I call shenanigans. BS - We didn't know...wouldn't get you out of a speeding ticket now would it?

"Attorney Julie Pace said the company has I-9 forms on everyone and uses E-Verify to check employees' eligibility to work, but that is not always enough. So is e-verify liable, because it is obvious they are unreliable

"The company wouldn't know if someone is using counterfeit documents," Pace said.

Pace also called on the federal government to help companies comply with hiring laws.

"We need an easy program for employers to use to hire people -- safe, easy, quick -- like is English their 1st language? so we don't have to deal with ICE audits," she said."

Sounds like we are one step closer to a national ID card.

The illegal immigrant problem is more than just Mexico and central american. In the section of San Francisco I moved from, it was French & Irish illegals...

The main consideration to take into account is the country is not serious about ending illegal immigration. The population can scream and holler and post rants but what are we actually willing to do? There are citizens that hire the illegal immigrants and then hide behind e-verify because of profit.

Before you go spouting the socialist thing again I AM NOT AGAINST ANYONE OR ANY COMPANY MAKING A PROFIT! I am against profit gotten through ill means, drug dealing, hiring illegals, robbery and theft. I also believe that excessive profits should not be made by taking advantage of people.

 

[ZomBrady]

It's not complete BS, it's BS in your case, and Rich's case and my case. If the jobs were not available, the illegal immigrants would not have come here to work them, someone is hiring them, the resturants, the hotels, the landscaper, the independent contractor.

I have posted elsewhere you want to end illegal immigration, then make it un-lucrative to hire illegals. Seize the assets of those profitting by hiring them. The contractor, seize his tools and truck. You'll see real immigration reform or change to border policing when Conrad loses a few hotels and some rich lawyer loses his home because of the nanny, housekeeper, or landscaper. Until then you are shoveling sand against the tide. No due process in the seizures? It's the same as seizing cars of johns or drunk drivers.

That's fine by me. Fry the employers that hire illegal aliens. INS is cracking down in SoCal on that stuff. But you seriously can't expect to simply approach this problem from a single front. Laws need to be enforced for both illegal aliens and employers.

What pisses me off, are the people out there that label me and others like me as racist because we want something done about illegal aliens.

A 6 year old girl gets raped by an illegal alien in my hometown here. 3 U.S. citizens are kidnapped from a wedding in my State and murdered in Mexico. A Sheriff's Deputy is shot in Arizona by an illegal alien. A rancher offering aid to an illegal alien is murdered by that same illegal alien. Over 370 individual kidnapped in Phoenix last year, most by illegal aliens. When will our Government step up and do something? You tell me? It's not just about jobs, it's about protecting the 'guaranteed' rights of the American Citizen.

Remember this? "I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I took that Oath. I meant every fricking word of it. Yet some douchebag out there will call me a fricking racist because I'm pissed off beyond all reason that INNOCENT Americans have been killed or harmed by illegal aliens when it could have been prevented.

If one American is killed by an illegal when we could have prevented it, it's one too many.

 

[Boatwrench]

If one American is killed by an illegal when we could have prevented it, it's one too many.

Like this dirt bag. Couldn't agree more.

another side note. A radio poll this afternoon stated 60% of Americans support the AZ law. That's down from initial poll numbers and means that 40% are either against it or undecided.

 

[ZomBrady]

Like this dirt bag. Couldn't agree more.

another side note. A radio poll this afternoon stated 60% of Americans support the AZ law. That's down from initial poll numbers and means that 40% are either against it or undecided.

That's EXACTLY what I'm PISSED about.

 

[XJEEPER]

Like this dirt bag. Couldn't agree more.

another side note. A radio poll this afternoon stated 60% of Americans support the AZ law. That's down from initial poll numbers and means that 40% are either against it or undecided.

Thanks for your points of clarity, Tom.

I submit that if you drilled down on the 40% number, at least half would be in favor of enforcing the existing Federal laws that are already in place and currently being ignored.
Many dont even put forth the effort to understand our laws or the Constitution so when polled for their opinion......they are undecided.

Another telling tale of this 60/40 split is a similar split took place when polling citizens opposed to the recently passed healthcare legislation.....and before you cry "Hijack", let me connect the dots here.

Our Federal Government is choosing to not enforce the existing immigration laws......why?

They need to recruit fresh voters to continue moving their Socialist agendas forward and how better for them to accomplish this than by offering a "free pass" into the county. They will then own them.

Slavery has many forms.

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion". ~Edmund Burke

 

[Boatwrench]

Thanks for your points of clarity, Tom.

Our Federal Government is choosing to not enforce the existing immigration laws......why?

They need to recruit fresh voters to continue moving their Socialist agendas forward and how better for them to accomplish this than by offering a "free pass" into the county. They will then own them.

Slavery has many forms.

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion". ~Edmund Burke

Different perspective on why the federal government will not enforce the immigration law they enacted...the economy needs a cheap labor source. It was a conservative administration, Ronald Reagan that granted amnesty to illegal immigrants. Thereby recruiting fresh votes (?)

 

[Boatwrench]

The problem with a 1hr commute is plenty of time to think up crap like this:

If the AZ law makes it illegal to hire illegals...what is the punishment for doing so? As I stated previously I am for seizing assets of those hiring the illegals and immediate deporting of said illegals, but what is the tooth, the deterent, the bite, the sting of the AZ law?

XJeepers post about 300 illegal employees of a total 1,5000 employees, a full 20%, at Pro-Ranch Markets got me thinking...What is the 'punishment' or 'deterent' for the Pro Ranch Market Company? Will this company just wait until the heat dies down and hire more illegals? What is to prevent them from doing so? E-Verify? well we saw how well that worked.

Since Boycotts seem to be the fad du jour, how many citizens that are proponents of AZ's immigration law will stop shopping at Pro-Ranch Market?

 

[ZomBrady]

The problem with a 1hr commute is plenty of time to think up crap like this:

If the AZ law makes it illegal to hire illegals...what is the punishment for doing so? As I stated previously I am for seizing assets of those hiring the illegals and immediate deporting of said illegals, but what is the tooth, the deterent, the bite, the sting of the AZ law?

XJeepers post about 300 illegal employees of a total 1,5000 employees, a full 20%, at Pro-Ranch Markets got me thinking...What is the 'punishment' or 'deterent' for the Pro Ranch Market Company? Will this company just wait until the heat dies down and hire more illegals? What is to prevent them from doing so? E-Verify? well we saw how well that worked.

Since Boycotts seem to be the fad du jour, how many citizens that are proponents of AZ's immigration law will stop shopping at Pro-Ranch Market?

This isn't about jobs, it's about criminals. Do you really think that the guy in that article you posted awhile back was looking for legitimate employment? Come on, man. You know better.

 

[XJfreakHO]

I have always done my own yardwork and painting, roofing steps out of my line of skill, and we hired some hispanics to do it, US citizens, lived here there whole lives, good folks, good work, fair price. As far as mexican food... well its an addiction, I probably go 2x a month for the 99 cent drafts and my ACP. I got a buddy who runs a tobacco farm, lots of illegals come out wanting to work, but he has a deal with the family across the road, they are all legal citizens, but there are about 30 of them and they all farm lol.