**UPDATED** HHO GAS....

[Ecomike]

That PM I sent you, I tried. I got busted by the ECU cop about halfway through the first 1/4 of a tank. Looks like I'm off autopilot and I'll be taking over the controls now. I still managed 1.5 MPGs better than I normally get, but my MPGs were going downhill fast.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the video of yours I watched looks like it has a fresh air tube supply to the HHO generator, so the engine vacuum is sucking in fresh air through the HHO generator on yours, right? If yes, that is why it is throwing a CEL code, it looks like a huge vacuum leak to the ECU. If you close off that hose and let just HHO gas flow to the engine it should not throw codes.

 

[Ecomike]

Getting good results with my setup with out modifying any sensors . I have a interesting side affect to report . Seems to be running about 15 degrees cooler with the generator turned on .I will try to confirm that tomorrow with my I.R. Therm .

From what I have read, a slightly cooler running engine is one of the expected results, but don't ask me to explain why at this point.

 

[outlander]

:why not make the stuff at home??? House current is less expensive to use than loading down your car's alternator and sucking down more gas. Couldn't a set up at work more efficiently? The hydrogen could be pumped from the accumulation chamber as its made.

This is what I was thinking also.....

 

[Ecomike]

I owe someone an apology on the resistance. the unit I constructed showed a resistance of 195 ohms across the terminals, which would equate to an amperage of .06 A. The unit promptly popped a 5 amp fuse. which means that it draws much more than that, but less than the 20 amp fuse I have online running it now.

I filled up this morning and the mpg was 25. previous tanks were 27 and 26 mpg. 100% highway miles I get 30-31mpg. and average is between 27-28.

This first tank with the unit on already has 50 miles on it so the results will be skewed, I will document progress in a seperate thread I will title "goodburbons hydrogen experiment" Since it is technically mod tech I will put it there.

What? Your going to run off and abandon us, leave us high dry in this wonderful thread and go play in the Mods forum with your new HHO? :laugh3:

Before you run off and abandon us, LOL, I forget, what vehicle and year was that your testing in it?

And can we have the plate gap and surface areas please to tie in with the amp draw, and the amount of NaHCO3 added to the distilled water? And please post a link to the new Mod forum thread when you start it, I for one want to follow it!

Outlander,

if it is just hydrogen doing the key work, then that would be an eventual goal, but right now some us are wondering if the steam and oxygen mixed with the Hydrogen from these on board units, is not part of how and why it works. Also, these units are cheaper, and intrinsically a bit safer, than a high pressure storage tank. Hydrogen compression and storage is still a bit of problem too.

 

[goodburbon]

This is what I was thinking also.....

Simple explination is:

Yes you could create the hydrogen/oxygen at home but then you would have a large bomb that you would put where in your car? the electrolysis cell makes the gas and it is used as it is made, avoiding a large buildup of hydrogen at any one time, and therefore avoiding the presence of a very large and extremely volatile bomb under your hood.

 

[goodburbon]

Link to my thread Here

Vehicle is a 95 mitsu eclipse,

spacing is +/-.25 inches plates are 2.75x4.5 inches

 

[swbooking]

Linky no worky...

 

[goodburbon]

Linky no worky...

it sss fickesd now

TY for the heads up.

 

[csmith]

Hi guys. I'm new to this forum. I drive a 1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L.

This HHO stuff does work as fuel assist. You inject the flammable gas from the electrolyzer. (tube with distilled water,baking soda or other electrolyte, stainless steel plates) hooked to a battery. I have seen personally a 12% increase in mpg.

Unfortunately you have those MLM guys banking off of it and making grandious claims like 300% increase which is pure bolderdash. :flamemad:

The water2gas guys give the honest tinkerer a bad name and charge $1000.00 for something you can build from Lowes parts for $50.00

You can't run your engine off of it but it burns along with the gasoline. It would take a huge electrolyzer and hundreds of amps to produce 30 liters a minute. These smaller ones draw 10-20amps produce 2 LPM enough to run maybe a weed whacker engine.

In addition to running the gas into the airbox you have to know what you are doing and tweak the O2 and Map sensor electronics etc. Search HHO on youtube.

Also I don't sell this stuff. I just experiment with it on my own.

Regards!

 

[mattbred]

you guys that tweak the O2 and MAP sensors - have you tried tweaking them WITHOUT adding in HHO?

 

[Ecomike]

lawoncl, et. al.,

Just dawned on me why these things are not overheating and melting the PVC rigs!

As you and I discussed before here, at 150 F and under engine vacuum, they are removing some water as gas, steam, not just hydrogen and oxygen. The heat of vaporization of water is so high, that the excess, wasted heat from electrolysis is being removed via the water vapor! Cut the vacuum off, just vent them at atmospheric pressure, and I bet they get too hot for PVC. That was one of the things that was bugging me about using PVC.

 

[csmith]

you guys that tweak the O2 and MAP sensors - have you tried tweaking them WITHOUT adding in HHO?

I just run the HHO without any mods. Tests have been done with and without. Not sure of the results. I'm sure the fuel efficiency could be improved just by adjusting the O2/MAP voltages without HHO. Makes sense.

 

[Ecomike]

Irainman,

I think it was you that said you do large municipal water treatment, I was wondering if you (or who ever it was) could run weekly TDS and TSS tests in your lab on the water in your HHO generator. The samples would need to be pulled after adding water to bring the liquid level back to its starting point, and then mixing it completely before pulling the samples. Samples need to be small compared to the HHO generator volume.

Also the samples should be filtered first (0.45 micron) before running the TSS tests. I want to try and quantify what might be happing to the carbonate to see if it needs replacing at intervals. In other words is it being consumed, how is being consumed, and how fast. The TSS and TDS data along with mileage or hours run, would give me some early clues.

Thanks!

 

[hightime81]

Ecomike,

my rig does indeed have an air intake in the the system, but that is to produce oxygen into the water to help create the vapor and HHO gas i thought.

if the system was entirely closed (no air being brought in), would the HHO gas still be produced from just the water in the rig? This aspect was just part of the design that i got from the water4gas people.

also - im testing on a 93 XJ, and i haven't gotten a code thrown at me yet. might be b/c i am on an older xj.

 

[ChrisTX]

I just run the HHO without any mods. Tests have been done with and without. Not sure of the results. I'm sure the fuel efficiency could be improved just by adjusting the O2/MAP voltages without HHO. Makes sense.

This is on my '02 TJ with I6, but it appears my computer is now ignoring the inputs from my MAP adjuster. I think I'm going to have to get an adjuster for my O2 sensor as well. If it wasn't such a pain, I'd hook up this up to my '00 XJ and see, but I'm afraid I'd get the same results.

I think the only way to see the gains is to get control over both the MAP and the O2 sensors.

 

[goodburbon]

Ecomike,

my rig does indeed have an air intake in the the system, but that is to produce oxygen into the water to help create the vapor and HHO gas i thought.

if the system was entirely closed (no air being brought in), would the HHO gas still be produced from just the water in the rig? This aspect was just part of the design that i got from the water4gas people.

also - im testing on a 93 XJ, and i haven't gotten a code thrown at me yet. might be b/c i am on an older xj.

The system needs to be entirely closed.

 

[csmith]

This is on my '02 TJ with I6, but it appears my computer is now ignoring the inputs from my MAP adjuster. I think I'm going to have to get an adjuster for my O2 sensor as well. If it wasn't such a pain, I'd hook up this up to my '00 XJ and see, but I'm afraid I'd get the same results.

I think the only way to see the gains is to get control over both the MAP and the O2 sensors.

My '90 XJ with I6 is pre OBD so I don't have the luxury of monitoring the fuel system. And not sure how to mod my O2.

I do know thru several milage tests that I see a 12% difference. 85 miles on 5 gallons on the freeway with the HHO off and 95 miles with the HHO on. 17MPG before and 19MPG after. 17 seems kinda low.

It would be interesting to get a professional tuneup and test without the HHO.

 

[outlander]

Simple explination is:

Yes you could create the hydrogen/oxygen at home but then you would have a large bomb that you would put where in your car? the electrolysis cell makes the gas and it is used as it is made, avoiding a large buildup of hydrogen at any one time, and therefore avoiding the presence of a very large and extremely volatile bomb under your hood.

Makes sense.....but then again driving around with 15 gallons of gasoline back there in the gas tank seems crazy if it wasn't for the fact that millions of people do it everyday.
Or what about the people who have converted to propane injection and drive around with 50lbs of propane sloshing around inside a steel cylinder?

 

[Ecomike]

Ecomike,

my rig does indeed have an air intake in the the system, but that is to produce oxygen into the water to help create the vapor and HHO gas i thought.

if the system was entirely closed (no air being brought in), would the HHO gas still be produced from just the water in the rig? This aspect was just part of the design that i got from the water4gas people.

also - im testing on a 93 XJ, and i haven't gotten a code thrown at me yet. might be b/c i am on an older xj.

While the HHO gas would get to the engine sooner after start up with your current setup, it can also cause a high idle and use more gasoline at idle that way. IF you seal that inlet vent to the HHO generator, the HHO gas formed inside will generate pressure as the gas forms, and the engine vacuum will draw the accumulating HHO gas into the engine. If I used an inlet vent I would use an extreemly tiny hole, like a 1/64" or smaller hole for that inlet air to limit the negative affects of too much inlet air, and to still get the HHO gas to the engine intake sooner. Another option for you may be to move the feed hose from the intake manifold to the dirty side of the air filter, filter box, which is before the throttle body and the IAC controller, and leave the intake vent the way it is!

 

[Flash]

Makes sense.....but then again driving around with 15 gallons of gasoline back there in the gas tank seems crazy if it wasn't for the fact that millions of people do it everyday.
Or what about the people who have converted to propane injection and drive around with 50lbs of propane sloshing around inside a steel cylinder?

I think you need to go back too the first page and click on the 3d link provided .........when you see them insignificant bubbles explode:explosion you might change you mind!!!!!:scared: :listenmus

you don't need to go back i will repost it here!!!!
http://diyhydrogenhho.com/

Read the hole thing, its a good one............don't have time?

go down 2/3 of the page were the 2nt video clip is posted.
Watch it to the end.............I thing you will understand goodburbon coment..............Beside the bang is kinda cool


I have been gone for a while and have spent what little time i have reading and catching up on this thread..........

Can't wait to see what the result are going to be

I will give my thought and opinions later.


Flash