**UPDATED** HHO GAS....

hhogen.jpg


Here is my idea: ( I JUST now thought of it)



Use a nalgene bottle as the container. Bullet proof ( not really but close) and already has a airtight lid. Use some sort of plastic divider with holes small enough not to let any shavings touch....haven't worked it all out yet.

Use whichever is available....graphite, stainless or titanium. Then stick the rod in to give the pile of shavings a current and do the rest like the normal HHO gen. I haven't worked out all the details of course and I apologize got the rough drawing but this would allow the use of scrap material and also the increased surface area would make much more HHO (right? I think so at least) You could even do 6 or 8 sections instead of 4. What do you guys think?

--Alex
 
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I confess I had to google on Naquida. I'm not a Stargate fan, and don't actually watch much tv.

Someone quoted 150*F for their tank temperature, which would make straight water boil at 22 inches vacumn. I'm not sure what the boiling point would be with KOH or sodium bicarb added. They could very well be getting boiling at light throttle or on a closing throttle. Enough to consume the amount of water loss seen?

It's easy enough to meaure cfm. Do something like this with a gallon jug and a stopwatch. One of you guys with a working setup want to try this and report back how long it takes to fill a 1-gallon jug?

gas.JPEG
 
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lawsoncl said:
Nalgene isn't that strong at higher temps. It's like PVC in that its strength fades pretty quick above 140*F. http://www.nalgenelabware.com/techdata/resin/index2.asp?m='PETG'&p=WVTR
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I disagree. I think that refers to the soft stuff they use in the lab, not the hard stuff for camping and hiking. Many a time I have poured boiling water in my bottle to keep at my feet to warm me in my sleeping bag while camping/hiking.
 
32 oz. Nalgene® Polycarbonate Wide Mouth Loop-Top Bottles Polycarbonate bottle with a wide mouth top that minimizes the chance of spills and cap that never gets lost. Printed graduations simplify the process of measuring. Made with polycarbonate, these bottles are extremely durable, resistant to staining and retaining odors. Recommended for "extreme" adventures. Dishwasher Safe (top rack only). Withstands temperatures from -135ºC (-211ºF) to 135ºC (275ºF).

that is off of USPlastics.com

--Alex
 
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I think you're right about the lab stuff being the opaque whitish looking stuff, versus polycarbonate. Can't say I've used it with anything boiling, so I'll trust you on that. I do like the idea of shavings, something akin to steel wool, to increase the surface area.
 
I tried steel wool first one day after work at dad's shop.....didn't work for 10 seconds before it was full of rust......if you could get a stainless steel scrubber that would be good...right? I'm pretty sure thats what they are made out of that we use for dishes here..

I'm gonna check with a magnet.

EDIT: Yes it is magnetic, however so is my stainless steel sink. Grade 400 stainless is magnetic according to my grandfather ( we had this discussion today) and he said that 400 is less corrision resistant than 300. He offered up some 3/8 or 1/4 SS 300 grade but I opted to get some Ti, off instead.
 
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Stallacrew said:
hhogen.jpg
Here is my idea: ( I JUST now thought of it) Use a nalgene bottle as the container. Bullet proof ( not really but close) and already has a airtight lid. Use some sort of plastic divider with holes small enough not to let any shavings touch....haven't worked it all out yet. Use whichever is available....graphite, stainless or titanium. Then stick the rod in to give the pile of shavings a current and do the rest like the normal HHO gen. I haven't worked out all the details of course and I apologize got the rough drawing but this would allow the use of scrap material and also the increased surface area would make much more HHO (right? I think so at least) You could even do 6 or 8 sections instead of 4. What do you guys think? --Alex
Click to expand...
The problem with that design is all the current will flow only between the closest points. If you want to increase the surface area look at lawsoncl's suggestion of rolled, round material. All the electrode surfaces need to be equadistant from each other to work efficiently. Electricity will take the shortest path, as it has the lowest resistance. Also you need open space between the electrodes for water flow, circulation at the electrode surfaces to displace the gas forming on the surfaces, and to renew the water at the electrode surfaces. Gas bubbles are poor conductors.

A thin porous electrode might be interesting. Also sandblasting the electrode surface will help. And fine, wire mesh is good choice too for increasing surface area and for bubble release, and for water circulation at the electrode surfaces.
 
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well hi there guys ur probly all going to flame me for the info i am going to give but think about this i am not selling anything i only reg here to tell u guys that HHO works and a engine can be ran COMPLETLY ON WATER NO GAS i have been trying to find a forum on this tec but havent been able to find it i found this thred and i thought i would share the info i have I have only ben experminting for about a week but i have a cell made that makes what i am hopeing is enough gas to run a 6000watt gen with a 7hp motor whan I get that running i have a 88 caravan on a 92 blazer chases with a 4.3 with 4 barrol that drinks gas ( this is my movaiton for makeing this work) i did a lot of looking around and seen all ones for sale but wanted to build my self than i found someonw willing to share his plans and experence HE has a 6000watt gen running and has all the pics posted and he and I have had a good Q@A session in a thread on a free satilate tv fourm i will post a dead link to the thred all u need to know to make this urself and run ur car or any motor is here....JUST DONT LISTEN TO THE ONES WHO SAY IT CANT WORK BECAUSE IT CAN AND DOES....

here is the other place
hxxp://www.extremetesting.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=22218
I go by the same name there so u will know my posts

666
 
hightime81 said:
Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItMA0MPt7DE

sorry about the choppiness and quick movements, i am no film maker...
Click to expand...

Looks to me like you have an inlet air tube, and an HHO gas outlet tube on the generator? If so you are letting ambient air into the HHO generator, which mixes with the HHO gas generated and then flows on to the engine, but by having that inlet air source, feed the engine vacuum you are essentially adding a vacuum leak to the system, which will increase gasoline consumption at idle, and probably cause a high idle, or maybe even throw a code on the newest MAF equiped models as it tries to idle with a vacuum leak.
 
Ecomike , I like the idea of using graphite plates for electrodes . I have heard that graphite was a great conductor . On another note I see from your sig and your post that you have a great deal of experience with the Renix control system . Have you ever tryed to modify the coolant temp sensor on the block for diff resistence value ? I know how to modify the map sensor and the 02 sensor , however I have not done so on this experiment due to the fact that I am trying to lower the MPGs only by using the generator to get the cleanest data .
 
REPOXP777 said:
Ecomike , I like the idea of using graphite plates for electrodes . I have heard that graphite was a great conductor . On another note I see from your sig and your post that you have a great deal of experience with the Renix control system . Have you ever tryed to modify the coolant temp sensor on the block for diff resistence value ? I know how to modify the map sensor and the 02 sensor , however I have not done so on this experiment due to the fact that I am trying to lower the MPGs only by using the generator to get the cleanest data .
Click to expand...

No doubt you meant raise, not lower the mpgs.

No, I have not modified the CTS or MAT sensors. In my opinion, right or wrong, the key is the O2 sensor. I thin the other sensors only get used for start up, WOT, rapid acceleration, and rapid deceleration, and as approximations in the algorithms during closed loop operation. During closed loop operation the O2 sensor, if it is working properly is used primarily by the ECU to overide the data from the other sensors and the internal data tables, but I could be wrong. Modifying the CTS and MAT sensor output should be easy, just install a variable resistor, pot, in series or parallel, depending on which way you want to bias the output.

You say you have succeded in modifying the Renix O2 sensor? If so how?
 
Ecomike said:
No doubt you meant raise, not lower the mpgs.

No, I have not modified the CTS or MAT sensors. In my opinion, right or wrong, the key is the O2 sensor. I thin the other sensors only get used for start up, WOT, rapid acceleration, and rapid deceleration, and as approximations in the algorithms during closed loop operation. During closed loop operation the O2 sensor, if it is working properly is used primarily by the ECU to overide the data from the other sensors and the internal data tables, but I could be wrong. Modifying the CTS and MAT sensor output should be easy, just install a variable resistor, pot, in series or parallel, depending on which way you want to bias the output.

You say you have succeded in modifying the Renix O2 sensor? If so how?
Click to expand...
Yes thank you I meant to type raise not lower . As far as modifying the 02 sensor I have had success with other vehicles by using a spark plug non fouler . I have not tryed it with the Renix . The idea about the CTS is probably not a good idea for someone who lives in a colder climate because It might have a cold start issue and run rough untill the engine warmed up to closed loop . However I think that the Renix goes into closed loop long before ODB2 . At the same point I do not want to run the engine to lean for obvious reasons .
 
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REPOXP777 said:
Yes thank you I meant to type raise not lower . As far as modifying the 02 sensor I have had success with other vehicles by using a spark plug non fouler . I have not tryed it with the Renix . The idea about the CTS is probably not a good idea for someone who lives in a colder climate because It might have a cold start issue and run rough untill the engine warmed up to closed loop . However I think that the Renix goes into closed loop long before ODB2 . At the same point I do not want to run the engine to lean for obvious reasons .
Click to expand...

Renix, OBD-I, and OBD-II XJ 4.0's, all use built in heaters in the O2 sensors, so they are ready for closed loop operation in 10-20 seconds. Some people say that the CTS has to reach a certain temperature before the OBD's go into closed loop, I don't know for sure, but I have proved that it is not true for Renix. Mine goes closed loop in under 30 seconds, even a cold start in 32 F weather.

I have read a lot about the spark plug antifouler trick for the O2 sensor, and so far I think that part is just BS, as I don't see how it could do anything useful, except slow the ECU response time and confuse the ECU to the point of throwing a code on the newer models.

The guys that are messing with the O2 sensors are also messing with the other sensors too, especially the MAP sensor, which is creating the need to mess with the O2 sensor, or they have vacuum leaks on their HHO generators (whether intentional or not) and they are trying to compensate for the added O2 at idle, etc.......
 
Ecomike said:
The guys that are messing with the O2 sensors are also messing with the other sensors too, especially the MAP sensor, which is creating the need to mess with the O2 sensor, or they have vacuum leaks on their HHO generators (whether intentional or not) and they are trying to compensate for the added O2 at idle, etc.......
Click to expand...
That PM I sent you, I tried. I got busted by the ECU cop about halfway through the first 1/4 of a tank. Looks like I'm off autopilot and I'll be taking over the controls now. I still managed 1.5 MPGs better than I normally get, but my MPGs were going downhill fast.
 
For it to work properly the generator needs to be sealed . If you have a vac leak in a ODB1 OR OBD2 vehicle it will throw the CEL light on . Getting good results with my setup with out modifying any sensors . I have a interesting side affect to report . Seems to be running about 15 degrees cooler with the generator turned on .I will try to confirm that tomorrow with my I.R. Therm . Ecomike , thank you for your opinion on the CTS . I am going to leave everything the same for at least a month and I will keep a very acurate log and see what I come up with .
 
I owe someone an apology on the resistance. the unit I constructed showed a resistance of 195 ohms across the terminals, which would equate to an amperage of .06 A. The unit promptly popped a 5 amp fuse. which means that it draws much more than that, but less than the 20 amp fuse I have online running it now.

I filled up this morning and the mpg was 25. previous tanks were 27 and 26 mpg. 100% highway miles I get 30-31mpg. and average is between 27-28.

This first tank with the unit on already has 50 miles on it so the results will be skewed, I will document progress in a seperate thread I will title "goodburbons hydrogen experiment" Since it is technically mod tech I will put it there.
 
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